2017 bullpen

[adambr2]

Espino back up for Woodruff has me a bit stumped. Like you said all reports are that Garza is good to return tomorrow. Only reason there would be any need for Espino to be up is if that has changed or if they plan to try him out of the pen.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Espino back up for Woodruff has me a bit stumped. Like you said all reports are that Garza is good to return tomorrow. Only reason there would be any need for Espino to be up is if that has changed or if they plan to try him out of the pen.

 

Likely Espino was up just to make sure we were covered if the game goes into extra innings. I'm assuming he goes right back down to AAA. Suter probably goes down as well for Garza. Maybe they get rid of some of the dead weight in the bullpen but I doubt it.

[djoctagone]

brent suter recalled as the 26th man for today's doubleheader. the last time the brewers recalled a 26th man, they didn't send him down after the doubleheader; they kept tyler cravy for the rest of the season and optioned andy wilkins.

history does not repeat itself. brent suter, yesterday's 26th man, was optioned last night. the roster is back to 25.

[Outlander]

Espino back up for Woodruff has me a bit stumped. Like you said all reports are that Garza is good to return tomorrow. Only reason there would be any need for Espino to be up is if that has changed or if they plan to try him out of the pen.

I hope they give Espino a shot at the pen and remove some of the dead weight. It certainly doesn't look like Espino is an option to start at the big league level so might as well see if he can be a piece of the bullpen. If not then he isn't long for the 40 man roster.

[JohnBriggs12]

Espino back up for Woodruff has me a bit stumped. Like you said all reports are that Garza is good to return tomorrow. Only reason there would be any need for Espino to be up is if that has changed or if they plan to try him out of the pen.

I hope they give Espino a shot at the pen and remove some of the dead weight. It certainly doesn't look like Espino is an option to start at the big league level so might as well see if he can be a piece of the bullpen. If not then he isn't long for the 40 man roster.

 

Let Espino keep starting at AAA and give Wang a shot in the pen. Having two lefties would give Counsell a little more ability to maneuver and free Hader up for more than one batter situations.

[Lathund]

Was hoping Suter would stay up a while longer. He's a player I really like, more than perhaps what the numbers (Albeit in a very limited sample size at the MLB level) says I should. I'd love it for him to be given an extended stay to see what he can contribute. Another lefty in there wouldn't hurt.

[djoctagone]

Wonder if Feliz will get 40 innings this year.

27.0 with the brewers.

[djoctagone]

here's the bullpen now, with number of minor league options remaining.

 

jacob barnes (2)

oliver drake (0)

paolo espino (2, already burned his 2017 option by spending more than 20 days in the minor leagues while on the 40-man)

josh hader (2, already burned his 2017 option)

jared hughes (0)

corey knebel (1)

wily peralta (0)

carlos torres (0)

 

already optioned, but can be recalled at any point during the season (requires a 10-day minimum stay in the minors unless replacing an injured player):

 

tyler cravy (currently on 7-day disabled list)

taylor jungmann

brent suter (2, already burned his 2017 option)

 

all other optioned pitchers on the 40-man are either starters or recovering from an injury.

 

a spot is open on the 40-man roster if the brewers wish to add another reliever.

[danzig6767]

Was hoping Suter would stay up a while longer. He's a player I really like, more than perhaps what the numbers (Albeit in a very limited sample size at the MLB level) says I should. I'd love it for him to be given an extended stay to see what he can contribute. Another lefty in there wouldn't hurt.

I like Suter as a long reliever. With his limited stuff, i think he'd struggle in the majors as hitters faced him multiple times in a game, but in 2-3 inning stints, i could potentially see him being effective, more so than say Peralta who consistently struggles with command, regardless if he's a starter or reliever.

[dacbrewers]

Espino will struggle more than Suter out of pen. I don't think Espino has ever pitched out of pen.

[reillymcshane]

Stearns knew some moves had to be made.

 

"Time to get a couple of new arms in there."

 

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2017/6/14/15804364/gm-david-stearns-brewers-bullpen-may-look-at-trades

[wildcat2237]

Knebel is filthy.

 

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but I wonder what his trade value is?

 

If someone were to offer the Ken Giles package I would think the Brewers would need to at least think long and hard, regardless of whether they are contending.

[pacopete4]

Who that is contending, needs an upgrade in their BP?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Who that is contending, needs an upgrade in their BP?

 

The Brewers.

[pacopete4]

Who that is contending, needs an upgrade in their BP?

 

The Brewers.

 

Completely agree there.

[dacbrewers]

Wonder if Feliz will get 40 innings this year.

27.0 with the brewers.

 

Wasn't too far off on that call...I forgot I said that...thanks for the reminder.

[tmwiese55]

Nationals need a ton of help in their bullpen.

[dacbrewers]

There are quite a few teams that need bullpen help, problem is only a few are contending.

[Greenleaf1]

I think Peralta will be next to go. No options but there's no chance in hell that any team is going to take on his contract so we can send him down to AA or AAA and let him work out of the bullpen and see if he can figure out how to pitch 1-2 innings at a time instead of us having to watch him do that with the big league club. The only problem here is that AAA sorely needs starters right now and I'm afraid they'd send him down and stretch him back out. That said, there's really not much reason to considering our 5 starters at the moment have all been doing pretty good lately, and we have Woodruff/Lopez/Wilkerson ready for their shots too.

 

I think if we could get to a bullpen of Knebel/Barnes/Hader/Torres/Drake/Hughes/Espino, plus maybe Wang as an 8th guy, I'd like to see what they could do before making any more big changes to the bullpen. So for now I'd just say DFA Peralta and give Wang his spot on the 40-man.

 

Also glad to see that Scahill cleared waivers and was outrighted to AAA. I don't think he's a guy we'll want up in the big leagues all the time but in the case of lots of bullpen injuries he'll be nice AAA-depth.

[brewmann04]

I guess everyone is stil for sake for the Right price

[reillymcshane]

I don't doubt Peralta is on thin ice, but as noted by others, Stearns has said he's going to give him some time. How much time, who knows.

 

The good thing is that we've made some moves - Espino and Hader (and even Woodruff - until the DL stint) thus far - but it allows the Crew to use Peralta in garbage time and not in critical situations.

 

It can give Milwaukee some time to evaluate the new guys - and hopefully get other guys on track.

[adambr2]

I don't doubt Peralta is on thin ice, but as noted by others, Stearns has said he's going to give him some time. How much time, who knows.

 

The good thing is that we've made some moves - Espino and Hader (and even Woodruff - until the DL stint) thus far - but it allows the Crew to use Peralta in garbage time and not in critical situations.

 

It can give Milwaukee some time to evaluate the new guys - and hopefully get other guys on track.

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone can say they haven't been trying to fix things. If anything I think they've had quick hooks -- Milone after a month, Marinez in May, Feliz in early June. Not that that is a bad thing.

 

I think they've had a pretty good balance between giving guys some time to fix things while also not waiting around forever on guys who just aren't producing. They were never just going to DFA 5 guys one Monday morning and bring in the top 5 relievers from the minors , nor should they.

[brewerfan82]

I also don't have any problem with the way they've approached relief pitching this year, especially in the offseason when this didn't look like a contending team. It's a really strange time in the MLB for relievers. I don't know if it's just the small sample size nature of the position or what, but it seems like 90% of them can be picked off the scrap heap and are incredibly volatile from year to year, and any one of them is capable of being a top pitcher for one season while becoming garbage the next, and vice-versa. Meanwhile, the dependable ones are few and far between and cost a king's ransom to obtain.

 

Coming into the season, it looked like they'd be in a position to throw some darts out there and see what they could find on the cheap this year, but now that the rest of the team has exceeded expectations, it's become frustrating to watch the guys that haven't panned out blow games that they should have won. But while I'd love them to make a move for a stable arm or two, I think the prices to trade for that in-season have become so ridiculous that they shouldn't consider that route. Dependable guys cost way too much, 2nd tier guys having a good season will probably still cost too much and could be bad for the rest of the season/contract, and the others that are available for a reasonable price have shown they're flops this year already.

 

In the end, with the current state of relievers in baseball, I think the best way to manage the bullpen is as follows:

 

- In the offseason, fill the open spots in the bullpen with "cheap" free agent pickups/bounce back candidates and guys you like dropped off other rosters

- In season, replace under performing players with internal options from the minors

- Always, listen to offers on your guys. As long as teams are overpaying for relievers, they'll be a cheap way to insert talent into the organization. Last year alone, for two guys that have demonstrated that volatile nature of relievers this year, they got a starting MLB 3B (having an All-Star year), a AAA C (former high prospect), a AA SS (#9 team prospect), a AA RHP (#12 team prospect), an A RHP (#21 team prospect), and an 18yo SS (rising prospect). That's not to mention how Jeffress (another example of volatile relief pitching) helped bring a haul that included our #1 prospect (#13 MLB prospect) who's in the majors now, a AA RHP (#4 team prospect, #53 MLB prospect), and a AAA OF (#16 team prospect). That is a TON of talent injected in the system for 3 guys that have since done nothing for their new teams and I'm glad we were on the selling end of all those deals.

 

There may come a time that they should/may need to overpay for a dominant reliever (or even just a dependable one or two), but I would want to be far more confident in the team's current and future talent level than I am now. I don't think a season where you're surprised to be doing well (and let's face it, we're barely over .500 and in any other division we wouldn't be in first place) is the time to start sacrificing the future for a guy that's going to pitch about 50 of the 800 or so innings remaining in the year.

[Ennder]

It's a really strange time in the MLB for relievers. I don't know if it's just the small sample size nature of the position or what, but it seems like 90% of them can be picked off the scrap heap and are incredibly volatile from year to year, and any one of them is capable of being a top pitcher for one season while becoming garbage the next, and vice-versa. Meanwhile, the dependable ones are few and far between and cost a king's ransom to obtain.

 

It is just people still using ERA to judge pitching which is just a really bad stat when used in season, especially for RP.

[monty57]

I don't know if it's just the small sample size nature of the position or what, but it seems like 90% of them can be picked off the scrap heap and are incredibly volatile from year to year, and any one of them is capable of being a top pitcher for one season while becoming garbage the next, and vice-versa.

 

We're 60-some games into the season, and Chase Anderson has as many IP as most relievers will get in an entire season. Most people won't believe after a little over 1/3 of a season that Chase Anderson has proven himself to be a great starter, but many will believe after one 70-something IP season that a reliever has proven himself to be either good or bad. In reality, for a player that's good enough to be on a MLB roster, that's just far too few innings to make a solid judgement about a player either way.

 

Even the "bad" players in the majors are extremely good, and are capable of putting together strings of great baseball. Most relievers are in the 'pen because they couldn't cut it as starters, so they have some flaws. So, like a lot of #4/5 starters, they'll have times where they look good and times that they don't. It's not that it doesn't matter who you put there, but we could dump one of our guys and they could be lights out for the rest of the season for someone else, and we could grab someone who has been lights out for another team only to have them look like garbage for us.

 

There's not really an easy solution, as I still think SP are far more valuable than RP, so the best pitchers usually won't be headed to the bullpen. With limited supply of top pitchers in the 'pen, the price for them will be high, so the best way to get a good bullpen is to grow one on the farm. That's why long term for the Brewers I'm not too worried, as we have more pitching talent in the minors than ever before. Only a few of these guys will become MLB starters, so a lot of them will be competing for spots in future Brewer bullpens.

 

Short-term? Well, anything can happen short-term, like the rebuilding Brewers who aren't supposed to win more than 70 games ending up in first place.