2017 bullpen

[adambr2]

Comparing Knebel to anything in our pen (other than Corey himself) is just bad. Apples to hand grenades bad.

 

What are you talking about? You said basically, get rid of anyone who isnt getting the job done. Churn out some more to cycle through.

 

I pointed out hey, Knebel was pretty bad last year, what if we had showed that kind of patience with him?

 

Explain to me how in the world is that apples to oranges?

 

If you cannot see the relevance there than you are completely missing my point. You cannot just throw in the towel on anyone who isnt good for a short time. That's what I was saying.

[ZBTMP]

 

So let Wang, Cravy, Blazek, Suter, sit in the minors while Hughes, Drake, Feliz, Torres keep giving up boatloads of runs in the majors? What purpose does that serve for the now or the future?

 

None of those guys possess a quality MLB arsenal or impressive secondary metrics that would predict they would be better than what we currently have or are any kind of longterm asset.

 

You vastly over estimate how difficult it is to be better than what we currently have.

Drake has a 27.5% K rate and a 3.55 FIP, 3.33 xFIP, and 3.58 SIERA. I'd bet on regression over any of those guys. Hughes is a career sub 3 era pitcher with extreme ground ball tendencies. Torres has been an innings eater throughout his career and is coming off a great season. Feliz is still throwing gas and can miss bats. I'd bet on Tunnell straightening him out before any of those guys have sustainable MLB success.

 

Wang has been left unprotected the last 2 seasons, left out of big league camp, and seen all of his peripherals go backwards, regression is coming. Nobody maintains an ERA 2.5 runs less than their FIP over a season.

 

The one good thing about Cravy is he can miss bats at an above average rate. He has stopped doing that.... pass

 

Blazek cannot succeed at the MLB level with a double digit walk rate.

 

I'll grant you Suter could be an upgrade, but Im not throwing the guy with an 84 mph fastball in high leverage situations.

 

ERA is limited in its predictive nature going forward. Stearns isnt going to manage his pen by ignoring BABIP, LOB%, K-BB% and go with who threw a few shutout inning in the last 2 weeks because the balls all went to defenders.

[logan82]

Honestly this is kind of what we should expect for our bullpen no mater where we are as a team. Good, consistent relievers are expensive so we will always have to rely heavily on internal options. They may have been able to go out and sign one guy to a $10m per year contract but with how the game has changed you need probably 3-4 really good relievers. I don't think trading for relievers is the right move at this point and even with our success this year I don't think we are a playoff team.

[SomewhereInTime]

Drake is essentially a lefty specialist with righties posting a .468 wOBA against him so far this year. He cannot be counted on to pitch full innings.

 

Hughes has command problems and with his minuscule strikeout rate will never really be above replacement level.

 

Torres has a FIP of 4.58 and xFIP of 4.99 through 30.1 innings this season

 

Feliz has absolutely no command of any off speed pitch and this has lead to an abysmal season. Time to cut their losses and move on.

 

Wang and Cravy definitely have faults but both are better options than what we have currently.

 

"Blazek cannot succeed at the MLB level with a double digit walk rate."

 

But Drake and Hughes can?

[Outlander]

Comparing Knebel to anything in our pen (other than Corey himself) is just bad. Apples to hand grenades bad.

 

What are you talking about? You said basically, get rid of anyone who isnt getting the job done. Churn out some more to cycle through.

 

I pointed out hey, Knebel was pretty bad last year, what if we had showed that kind of patience with him?

 

Explain to me how in the world is that apples to oranges?

 

If you cannot see the relevance there than you are completely missing my point. You cannot just throw in the towel on anyone who isnt good for a short time. That's what I was saying.

They did, he was optioned last year. Unforunately the current guys don't so they will have to DFA them.

[adambr2]

Comparing Knebel to anything in our pen (other than Corey himself) is just bad. Apples to hand grenades bad.

 

What are you talking about? You said basically, get rid of anyone who isnt getting the job done. Churn out some more to cycle through.

 

I pointed out hey, Knebel was pretty bad last year, what if we had showed that kind of patience with him?

 

Explain to me how in the world is that apples to oranges?

 

If you cannot see the relevance there than you are completely missing my point. You cannot just throw in the towel on anyone who isnt good for a short time. That's what I was saying.

They did, he was optioned last year. Unforunately the current guys don't so they will have to DFA them.

 

Right, and DFAing a guy is a whole lot different than optioning them. Optioning a guy is not giving up on him. Of course if we had somewhere to send Drake and Torres to see if they can work out the kinks and try some new arms up here I'd be for it. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't option some of these guys and try new ones if we had that choice but we don't.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think the Peralta experiment needs more time.

 

He's had 5 outings as a reliever, and since being moved to the pen, opponents are batting .219 off of him, and OPS-ing just .649. I know it's a small sample size (36 plate appearances), and he still needs to cut down on the walks, but he's been better in every aspect since being moved to the pen.

 

I'd like to see CC limit him to one inning when he uses him, but I'm not ready to just cut bait with Wily yet.

[pacopete4]

 

What are you talking about? You said basically, get rid of anyone who isnt getting the job done. Churn out some more to cycle through.

 

I pointed out hey, Knebel was pretty bad last year, what if we had showed that kind of patience with him?

 

Explain to me how in the world is that apples to oranges?

 

If you cannot see the relevance there than you are completely missing my point. You cannot just throw in the towel on anyone who isnt good for a short time. That's what I was saying.

They did, he was optioned last year. Unforunately the current guys don't so they will have to DFA them.

 

Right, and DFAing a guy is a whole lot different than optioning them. Optioning a guy is not giving up on him. Of course if we had somewhere to send Drake and Torres to see if they can work out the kinks and try some new arms up here I'd be for it. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't option some of these guys and try new ones if we had that choice but we don't.

 

Your comparing Knebel who was highly regarded, young, controllable to bums who have been cut by other teams. You assume these bums would be picked up by other teams. Churning the rosters of the Scahills of this world is nothing like Knebel of a year ago. No relevance. Apples to hand grenades.

[ZBTMP]

Drake is essentially a lefty specialist with righties posting a .468 wOBA against him so far this year. He cannot be counted on to pitch full innings.

So he is useful against lefties? The splits seem like an SSS anomaly based off his minor numbers

 

Hughes has command problems and with his minuscule strikeout rate will never really be above replacement level.

His career BB% is 8%. That seems fine to me.

 

Torres has a FIP of 4.58 and xFIP of 4.99 through 30.1 innings this season

And if you expand the sample size to include last season's numbers; he has 112 innings of 3.2 ERA and 3.98 FIP. Both of these have to factor in the decision.

 

Feliz has absolutely no command of any off speed pitch and this has lead to an abysmal season. Time to cut their losses and move on.

At a point in time sure, but if the Brewers still feel like they can make adjustments, I'm fine not throwing in the towel without a worthy replacement.

 

Wang and Cravy definitely have faults but both are better options than what we have currently.

How so? Guys with 4.5+FIPs in AAA with 4.5+ ERA projections and fringe stuff don't seem like options at all to me.

 

"Blazek cannot succeed at the MLB level with a double digit walk rate."

 

But Drake and Hughes can?

 

Drake can strike out guys at a well above average clip and Hughes can get ground balls at on elite level. Blazek cannot do those things.

[pacopete4]

I think the Peralta experiment needs more time.

 

He's had 5 outings as a reliever, and since being moved to the pen, opponents are batting .219 off of him, and OPS-ing just .649. I know it's a small sample size (36 plate appearances), and he still needs to cut down on the walks, but he's been better in every aspect since being moved to the pen.

 

I'd like to see CC limit him to one inning when he uses him, but I'm not ready to just cut bait with Wily yet.

 

 

I too would love to see him get some high stress innings. Let him be the 7th inning man for a couple of weeks. I know he's got the stamina for multiple innings but I would like to see him get three outs consistently.

[Outlander]

I do wonder if Torres really does need a stint on the DL, he has 30 appearances already which leads the league. The bad news is he is tied with Knebel and Barnes at 30, which does not bode well for the bullpen's future.

[adambr2]

 

Your comparing Knebel who was highly regarded, young, controllable to bums who have been cut by other teams. You assume these bums would be picked up by other teams. Churning the rosters of the Scahills of this world is nothing like Knebel of a year ago. No relevance. Apples to hand grenades.

 

So when you said get rid of guys that are not producing, what you really meant get rid of guys who are not producing as long as they are controllable and highly regarded. Good to know. So...wouldn't Peralta still somewhat fall into that category?

 

Also let's not overstate how highly regarded Knebel was. He was the 2nd or 3rd highest regarded piece in a trade for a year of Gallardo. He's been fantastic, but it still kind of remained to be seen coming into this year whether he would turn into a late inning fixture or not. It's easy to say now in retrospect that he was. If Hughes had been fantastic up to this point this year you could easily point to his career ERA and say it was predictable he'd be good.

 

He looked very good in his last outing, by the way, so I have no issue giving him a few more looks yet to see if he has figured something out before moving on from him. And I still think Drake could end up being decent with his splitter if he can fix his command issues.

[pacopete4]

 

Your comparing Knebel who was highly regarded, young, controllable to bums who have been cut by other teams. You assume these bums would be picked up by other teams. Churning the rosters of the Scahills of this world is nothing like Knebel of a year ago. No relevance. Apples to hand grenades.

 

So when you said get rid of guys that are not producing, what you really meant get rid of guys who are not producing as long as they are controllable and highly regarded. Good to know. So...wouldn't Peralta

 

Oh my... first off no, Peralta deserves some time in the pen since he just switched and hasn't been too bad there anyways. If he sucks after while, then yeah, you get rid of him. And secondly, OF COURSE you get rid of guys no matter their service time. This is the major leagues for petes sake. The only different being is if they can be optioned, you can for sure stick them at AAA and if they have no options you face possibly losing them if another team claims them. Whoopty doooo. Not sure what the hell youre exactly arguing here. Churn that damn bullpen as many times as you can and find major league production. I'm not advocating if you suck once you get sent down. The guys I say to move on from have sucked for a long enough period of time now. Can't even fathom what the hell youre arguing here.

[adambr2]

 

Your comparing Knebel who was highly regarded, young, controllable to bums who have been cut by other teams. You assume these bums would be picked up by other teams. Churning the rosters of the Scahills of this world is nothing like Knebel of a year ago. No relevance. Apples to hand grenades.

 

So when you said get rid of guys that are not producing, what you really meant get rid of guys who are not producing as long as they are controllable and highly regarded. Good to know. So...wouldn't Peralta

 

Oh my... first off no, Peralta deserves some time in the pen since he just switched and hasn't been too bad there anyways. If he sucks after while, then yeah, you get rid of him. And secondly, OF COURSE you get rid of guys no matter their service time. This is the major leagues for petes sake. The only different being is if they can be optioned, you can for sure stick them at AAA and if they have no options you face possibly losing them if another team claims them. Whoopty doooo. Not sure what the hell youre exactly arguing here. Churn that damn bullpen as many times as you can and find major league production. I'm not advocating if you suck once you get sent down. The guys I say to move on from have sucked for a long enough period of time now. Can't even fathom what the hell youre arguing here.

 

Just forget it. Just trying to point out why I made the comparisons I did and the disadvantages and risks of giving up on a guy too soon if your evaluation of them dictates that there's still something there that could be useful.

 

Per usual you just get mad and condescending anytime anyone disagrees or tries to debate with you so there's really no point.

[pacopete4]

 

So when you said get rid of guys that are not producing, what you really meant get rid of guys who are not producing as long as they are controllable and highly regarded. Good to know. So...wouldn't Peralta

 

Oh my... first off no, Peralta deserves some time in the pen since he just switched and hasn't been too bad there anyways. If he sucks after while, then yeah, you get rid of him. And secondly, OF COURSE you get rid of guys no matter their service time. This is the major leagues for petes sake. The only different being is if they can be optioned, you can for sure stick them at AAA and if they have no options you face possibly losing them if another team claims them. Whoopty doooo. Not sure what the hell youre exactly arguing here. Churn that damn bullpen as many times as you can and find major league production. I'm not advocating if you suck once you get sent down. The guys I say to move on from have sucked for a long enough period of time now. Can't even fathom what the hell youre arguing here.

 

Just forget it. Just trying to point out why I made the comparisons I did and the disadvantages and risks of giving up on a guy too soon if your evaluation of them dictates that there's still something there that could be useful.

 

Per usual you just get mad and condescending anytime anyone disagrees or tries to debate with you so there's really no point.

 

 

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

[adambr2]

 

 

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

 

No, it's condescending because you're being condescending and rude as you often do when people argue with you, when all I was trying to do is get you to understand the point I was making, not argue to argue.

 

Never once did I say Knebel is comparable to any of our other relievers. I simply pointed out, how big of a loss would it be I'd we had decided based on his 2016 that he wasn't a big part of our future based and perhaps traded him. More goes into a decision than just recent results, that's all I was saying.

 

I don't deny that I have said things of a reactionary nature in a game thread based on an emotional response of what happened in the moment. Who hasn't?

[pacopete4]

 

 

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

 

No, it's condescending because you're being condescending and rude as you often do when people argue with you, when all I was trying to do is get you to understand the point I was making, not argue to argue.

 

Never once did I say Knebel is comparable to any of our other relievers. I simply pointed out, how big of a loss would it be I'd we had decided based on his 2016 that he wasn't a big part of our future based and perhaps traded him. More goes into a decision than just recent results, that's all I was saying.

 

I don't deny that I have said things of a reactionary nature in a game thread based on an emotional response of what happened in the moment. Who hasn't?

 

I find it funny that you try to call me out in arguing and you're no better. Yore emotional to everything. I'll go personal if you do. Not putting up with you and your antics to argue, just to argue. I'm glad that you at least acknowledge your overreacting on the game threads.

 

But back on point, I guess if there is one. Another make believe scenario of now trading Knebel that didn't happen and that I never said I wanted to happen with any of our players. Churning 30 year old relievers from your MLB team to your AAA is not a big deal at all. For some reason you want to make it one. Even though your words just about everywhere else say otherwise.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

 

As someone with no horse in this race, adam is right. You argue just to argue most of the time.

[FVBrewerFan]

If I may. This *issing match is going nowhere. Whenever someone has the incessant need to be right, it is boring to the rest of us and takes up a lot space in a thread. Sometimes (well, all the time) it's better not to engage with someone you know is only looking to prove their point rather than have a healthy debate.

[adambr2]

 

 

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

 

No, it's condescending because you're being condescending and rude as you often do when people argue with you, when all I was trying to do is get you to understand the point I was making, not argue to argue.

 

Never once did I say Knebel is comparable to any of our other relievers. I simply pointed out, how big of a loss would it be I'd we had decided based on his 2016 that he wasn't a big part of our future based and perhaps traded him. More goes into a decision than just recent results, that's all I was saying.

 

I don't deny that I have said things of a reactionary nature in a game thread based on an emotional response of what happened in the moment. Who hasn't?

 

I find it funny that you try to call me out in arguing and you're no better. Yore emotional to everything. I'll go personal if you do. Not putting up with you and your antics to argue, just to argue. I'm glad that you at least acknowledge your overreacting on the game threads.

 

But back on point, I guess if there is one. Another make believe scenario of now trading Knebel that didn't happen and that I never said I wanted to happen with any of our players. Churning 30 year old relievers from your MLB team to your AAA is not a big deal at all. For some reason you want to make it one. Even though your words just about everywhere else say otherwise.

 

You're not even trying to debate the points I am making. Just rudeness and hypocrisy. I am going to make an honest effort to debate yours, that is what a message board is for. You can interpret that as arguing to argue if you wish, but that is the whole point of all of this, to share differences of opinion.

 

I understand trading Knebel is a hypothetical scenario that didn't happen, I simply suggested, once again, that we clearly would have made a mistake if we decided he wasn't part of the future of our pen based on the results of last season, and we don't want to make that mistake, so we need to evaluate carefully when deciding who to move on from.

 

Again, Drake has no options remaining, so we cannot simply churn him to our AAA team. If that was an option for us, I would agree that is would be a good idea by this point to give someone else a shot.

 

Yes he is 30, but that doesn't mean he can't still have a career ahead as a successful reliever, he wouldn't be the first. As Reilly had mentioned it all comes down to the team's evaluation of him -- perhaps they attribute some of his appearances to bad luck or Derrick Johnson feels he can turn his splitter into a pretty useful weapon.

 

I don't have a ton of confidence that anyone out there in AAA right now, with the possible exception of Hader, can be a significant upgrade in the pen from what we are seeing now. But I do have confidence that several of them will get their shot at some point, but IMO most of the relievers on staff, with the possible exception of Feliz, haven't been as dreadful as we might be feeling like they are so much to the point that they're lost causes to be useful assets in the pen this year. Again, I'm sure they're evaluating and trying to make that determination with every outing. But just throwing out guys like Drake (who has very good numbers against lefties, by the way) for new blood may make things worse, not better. Perhaps for some we're still trying to find the best role for them to be successful in .

[pacopete4]

It's only condecsending because you're arguing just to argue. Your comparisons aren't close. You name drop Knebel like he's any comparison to Scahill, Drake, etc. Simply saying you don't think they've had enough time is one thing. We can simply disagree on that. What you stated is just not comparable. And knowing how often you call for the heads of the guys I listed in the game thread, it's just too much.

 

As someone with no horse in this race, adam is right. You argue just to argue most of the time.

 

And he is doing it this time. You're no angel either. My first comment about churning the pen wasn't directed at him at all. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. He dragged me into his mess of an argument against it (even though 95% of the time he says otherwise). That's why it's annoying. He's on record over and over basically advocating what I did and now he wants to argue against it.

[pacopete4]

 

You're not even trying to debate the points I am making. Just rudeness and hypocrisy. I am going to make an honest effort to debate yours, that is what a message board is for. You can interpret that as arguing to argue if you wish, but that is the whole point of all of this, to share differences of opinion.

 

Here is what you are mad about. Nothing rally there that is condescening towards you at all. And not debating your points? Everything you responded with came back with a very reasonable answer to your posts. You got frustrated, flustered, whatever you want to call it and went back to the personal attacks on me. I'm not having it anymore from you. I didn't say anything that was out of line towards you. I had a difference of opinion(I guess, even though you don't 95% of the time) and you STILL wanted to argue with me over churning the pen by bringing in completely hypothetical scenarios.

 

If it's churning through crap what's the hold up? Bring em up, send em down, doesn't matter. Churn until something that resembles MLB pitching sticks. If none of these guys stick by seasons end, bingo cut em and go after other players. Why is there something wrong with that approach? We are not dealing with young prospects here. They're guys on their last chances. Cut em if they aren't doing their jobs. Doing nothing isn't getting it done. What happens if 3-4 of those guys I listed come up and do the job? I guess we'd never know with your thinking.

 

Most won't. Few will. That's the life of bullpen roulette. Sacrificing your season because you think a 30 year old pitcher may figure it out is not the way to go IMO. Also nothing stopping Drake from going to AAA and getting better where it really doesn't matter record wise. Games count in the pros. The Brewers front office needs to start figuring that out.

 

Peralta deserves some time in the pen since he just switched and hasn't been too bad there anyways. If he sucks after while, then yeah, you get rid of him. And secondly, OF COURSE you get rid of guys no matter their service time. This is the major leagues for petes sake. The only different being is if they can be optioned, you can for sure stick them at AAA and if they have no options you face possibly losing them if another team claims them. Whoopty doooo. Not sure what the hell youre exactly arguing here. Churn that damn bullpen as many times as you can and find major league production. I'm not advocating if you suck once you get sent down. The guys I say to move on from have sucked for a long enough period of time now. Can't even fathom what the hell youre arguing here.

 

 

Now then...

I understand trading Knebel is a hypothetical scenario that didn't happen, I simply suggested, once again, that we clearly would have made a mistake if we decided he wasn't part of the future of our pen based on the results of last season, and we don't want to make that mistake, so we need to evaluate carefully when deciding who to move on from.

 

Again, Drake has no options remaining, so we cannot simply churn him to our AAA team. If that was an option for us, I would agree that is would be a good idea by this point to give someone else a shot.

 

Yes he is 30, but that doesn't mean he can't still have a career ahead as a successful reliever, he wouldn't be the first. As Reilly had mentioned it all comes down to the team's evaluation of him -- perhaps they attribute some of his appearances to bad luck or Derrick Johnson feels he can turn his splitter into a pretty useful weapon.

 

I don't have a ton of confidence that anyone out there in AAA right now, with the possible exception of Hader, can be a significant upgrade in the pen from what we are seeing now. But I do have confidence that several of them will get their shot at some point, but IMO most of the relievers on staff, with the possible exception of Feliz, haven't been as dreadful as we might be feeling like they are so much to the point that they're lost causes to be useful assets in the pen this year. Again, I'm sure they're evaluating and trying to make that determination with every outing. But just throwing out guys like Drake (who has very good numbers against lefties, by the way) for new blood may make things worse, not better. Perhaps for some we're still trying to find the best role for them to be successful in .

 

Now, to your other points. The Knebel one, of course cutting him loose would have been a bad idea. Never said it would've been a good one so I'm not sure the point you are making here. He had options and the Brewers wisely used that last year on a younger pitcher.

 

Guys like Drake on the other hand, if they are costing you ball games, and for awhile these guys have, you chance it that you can get them to your AAA team to allow them to work it out. Chances are if they are costing you games, other major league teams won't want the same issues. Either way, there are guys at the AA/AAA level who have done their jobs and could be promoted even if you don't feel confidence in them. I'm not saying they'll be great, or even good, but to just ignore their results so far is another thing.

[adambr2]

It seems to me that we have at least few internal candidates that could probably help our MLB pen almost immediately. Here is how I'd rank the internal candidates:

 

1. Hader - they've already started limiting his innings (which seems a bit odd to me), so I wonder if we don't see this call-up sooner rather than later. Calling him up this year to help in the pen, wouldn't mean that we'd have to give up on him as a starter. In fact, maybe they could still keep him loosened up a bit by giving him some 2-3 inning relief stints from time to time? Big question with Hader though - can you rely on his control issues in high leverage MLB relief appearances? We can't have him coming in and walking the first two batters that he'd face.

 

2. Taylor Williams - They are already limiting his innings this year, coming back from his surgery - so why not bring his nasty stuff up to the Brewers and limit his innings at the big league level. We know how filthy his stuff is, and I'm guessing he'd be an immediate upgrade.

 

3. Michael Blazek - He's done well at times for us in prior years, and seems to be doing some good things lately at CS as a starter. Not sure if they feel that he is now better suited to be a starter, but they might want to give him another shot in the pen.

 

4. Tristan Archer - Honestly, I have no idea on this guy's stuff, but he seems to put up solid numbers at every stop so far in his minor league career.

 

5. Wang - ERA is good at CS this year, so that intrigues me. Not sure though if he's got the type of stuff to be a late inning guy that can shut down a left handed bat?

 

So, seems like we'd have some decent internal candidates here that we might be able to take a look at.

 

Hader and Taylor Williams are two guys I think could be a big boost to the pen this year as well. Blazek, I can't help but wonder if they see something there still as a starter, but he's been very successful in that role.

 

I honestly don't know anything about Archer. Wang was a guy I've called for in the past, but I'm a bit wishy washy on him. The ERA screams improvement while the peripherals generally haven't.

 

Honestly, at the end of the day I wouldn't be hurt or bothered to see any of bottom few in the pen sent packing and see new guys get shots -- I simply think as others have said that those decisions need to be made after close internal evaluation of why struggles are happening and whether of not there is reasonable hope for improvement.

 

With that said, Drake and Hughes have grown on me a bit, I like Drake's effectiveness against lefties but perhaps that just stands out more for lack of a lefty in our pen. Hughes looked fantastic his last outing. I have no idea where it came from. It's probably reading too much into one outing but I'm a bit intrigued to see if he's developing into anything useful before moving on from him.

[Outlander]

I like Hughes too but when he is bad he is real bad. Really needs to avoid the types of games he had against the Cubs and Dodgers.

[adambr2]

I like Hughes too but when he is bad he is real bad. Really needs to avoid the types of games he had against the Cubs and Dodgers.

 

For sure. Early in the yesr I honestly saw nothing in the guy. Seemed like every pitch was ankle high in the zone hoping to induce either a ground ball or swing and miss. Looked like a completely different pitcher in Game 1 of the Giants' series.

 

Anyway, he's had some success career wise at this level depending on what stats you go by so we'll see what happens .