2017 bullpen

[brwrsfan]

Sort of OT, but Teams are carrying such huge bullpens, I think DH will almost certainly happen in the NL.

 

One catcher and 3 bench players in the NL is insane now that so few starting pitchers can go past 6 innings consistently.

 

In the case of the Brewers, we can't get much past 5 innings, so haviing a big bullpen is mandatory.

 

I think the DH is inevitable at some point. I think the players union would be all for it too, as the DH position typically will bring more money than say the 5th OF or last bullpen spot.

 

The Brewers (and others) have been playing with fire with such a small bench. Get into extra innings or get an injury or two and we're going to run into relief pitchers having to bat or someone playing a crazy position (like say Braun sliding to the infield or something). That can happen in any game certainly, but the fewer bench guys available, the more likely it is something that happens at some point this season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, but if they had one less in the BP, they could have the same problem with pitchers in extra innings. Although it would be fun to see Thames pitch an inning.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I'm ready for some changes. Need some RP's who wont walk so much. Replace Hughes and/or Drake with Espino, Wilkerson, or Archer.

[adambr2]

I'm ready for some changes. Need some RP's who wont walk so much. Replace Hughes and/or Drake with Espino, Wilkerson, or Archer.

 

I forgot Hughes was even on the team.

[superfly]

It would work wonders if we brought a guy in that can go 7+ innings most every start that has some team control. Guys like Julio Teheran and Chris Archer come to mind. When did we have that last...Sabathia? Sheets?

 

But then I remember this is a site where we only want to accumulate prospects so that idea is out the window and we can continue to trot the Wily Peraltas of the world out there and bash our heads against a wall. You think the pen sucks now? Wait until they get a 30 games in 31 days stretch under their belts with the starters going 5 innings.

 

This team is in the race and it's the 1st of June. If I am the GM I put the boot on the throat of the underachieving/hungover Cubs and ratty Cardinals now instead of waiting around to see what happens. Rebuilding my butt...there's 3 OF spots and about 8 prospects, maybe less depending on how Thames/Braun/Aguilar are used, not to mention our infield prospects. It's not like guys like Teheran and Archer couldn't be flipped for near as much as we paid if not more...if things wouldn't work out (and we don't want to keep them).

 

Think outside the box.

[pacopete4]

It would work wonders if we brought a guy in that can go 7+ innings most every start that have some team control. Guys like Julio Teheran and Chris Archer come to mind. But then I remember this is a site where we only want to accumulate prospects so that idea is out the window and we can continue to trot the Wily Peraltas of the world out there and bash our heads against a wall.

 

This team is in the race and it's the 1st of June. If I am the GM I put the boot on the throat of the Cubs and Cardinhals now instead of waiting around to see what happens. Rebuilding my butt...there's 3 OF spots and about 8 prospects, maybe less depending on how Thames/Braun/Aguilar are used, not to mention our infield prospects. It's not like guys like Teheran and Archer couldn't be flipped for near as much as we paid if not more...if things wouldn't work out (and we don't want to keep them).

 

Think outside the box.

 

Why even make a comment like this? Go to bed.

[danzig6767]

I'm ready for some changes. Need some RP's who wont walk so much. Replace Hughes and/or Drake with Espino, Wilkerson, or Archer.

Peralta with another walk contributing to the winning run.

 

I'm still very skeptical that he'll become a good relief pitcher. He threw just hard as a starter as he's been doing as a reliever, but he has the same problem in either role. Million dollar arm and five dollar command.

[pacopete4]

Maybe they should stop asking Peralta to go more than one inning. Seems to be that second inning that gets him.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Maybe they should DFA Peralta and Drake, giving Espino, Wilkerson, Archer or Wang a shot?

[Outlander]

It didn't work out yesterday but I like Peralta as a reliever thus far and want to see it play out. Guys have hit Drake pretty hard all year, even in April when his ERA was good they still had an OPS of 850 against him. It is just now the hard hits are catching up to him and impacting his ERA. I would actually like Suter back up as a lefty, Wang's results have been good thus far but not necessary to bring up yet and add him to the 40 man.

[JosephC]

Unfortunately, I do think it's about time the Brewers consider parting with Peralta. With the way the arbitration process works, it's pretty likely that even with the bad statistical season he'll still likely get a fair raise for 2018 that could land him in 5+ million dollar territory (20% raise would put him at 5.13 million). He'll likely be one of MLB's top non-tender candidates this off-season unless he rebounds in a big way.

 

I still would like to think his arm would be attractive enough where Stearns would be able to find another team that has a struggling hard-throwing reliever and maybe the two sides could work out a swap.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wily's BB/9 as a starter: 3.2

Wily's BB/9 as a reliever: 3

 

Still can't throw strikes. Doesn't matter what role.

[brewmann04]

You cant run a bullpen correctly without having at least one lefty.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It would work wonders if we brought a guy in that can go 7+ innings most every start that has some team control. Guys like Julio Teheran and Chris Archer come to mind. When did we have that last...Sabathia? Sheets?

 

Except for one season in his career, Teheran averages almost exactly 6 IP per start. This season he's been averaging less than 6 IP per start, and he's been really bad.

 

For his career CHris Archer averages 6.11 IP per start.

 

This idea that there's a guy out there that will go 7+ IP every time out is just a Unicorn. There's Clayton Kershaw, and there's everyone else.

 

7 IP starters don't exist anymore. That isn't the way the game is played anymore. I think there's probably a handful of teams (if that) that have rotations that average 6 IP per start. The answer isn't finding something that doesn't exist (7 IP starters)... it's building a quality bullpen.

[pacopete4]

It would work wonders if we brought a guy in that can go 7+ innings most every start that has some team control. Guys like Julio Teheran and Chris Archer come to mind. When did we have that last...Sabathia? Sheets?

 

Except for one season in his career, Teheran averages almost exactly 6 IP per start. This season he's been averaging less than 6 IP per start, and he's been really bad.

 

For his career CHris Archer averages 6.11 IP per start.

 

This idea that there's a guy out there that will go 7+ IP every time out is just a Unicorn. There's Clayton Kershaw, and there's everyone else.

 

7 IP starters don't exist anymore. That isn't the way the game is played anymore. I think there's probably a handful of teams (if that) that have rotations that average 6 IP per start. The answer isn't finding something that doesn't exist (7 IP starters)... it's building a quality bullpen.

 

[sarcasm]In my video game they are going 7 innings all the time though.[/sarcasm]

[monty57]

It would work wonders if we brought a guy in that can go 7+ innings most every start that has some team control. Guys like Julio Teheran and Chris Archer come to mind. When did we have that last...Sabathia? Sheets?

 

Except for one season in his career, Teheran averages almost exactly 6 IP per start. This season he's been averaging less than 6 IP per start, and he's been really bad.

 

For his career CHris Archer averages 6.11 IP per start.

 

This idea that there's a guy out there that will go 7+ IP every time out is just a Unicorn. There's Clayton Kershaw, and there's everyone else.

 

7 IP starters don't exist anymore. That isn't the way the game is played anymore. I think there's probably a handful of teams (if that) that have rotations that average 6 IP per start. The answer isn't finding something that doesn't exist (7 IP starters)... it's building a quality bullpen.

 

Yeah, I think the best you can hope for is to get a solid group of starters, each of whom can occasionally go 7-8 innings. Getting a couple of those starts in a row, like we did with Anderson/Nelson last time around, can keep the pen rested.

 

We have some good SP prospects that should hit the majors soon, and others who won't cut it in the rotation, but will hopefully give us a strong bullpen in future years. As for today, we need to figure out which of these guys have some promise, and which should be released. I'm leaning on the "release Peralta" train.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yeah, I think the best you can hope for is to get a solid group of starters, each of whom can occasionally go 7-8 innings. Getting a couple of those starts in a row, like we did with Anderson/Nelson last time around, can keep the pen rested.

 

We have some good SP prospects that should hit the majors soon, and others who won't cut it in the rotation, but will hopefully give us a strong bullpen in future years. As for today, we need to figure out which of these guys have some promise, and which should be released. I'm leaning on the "release Peralta" train.

 

 

I think that is much more realistic. It would be great if the Brewers produced a Kershaw or Verlander or Sherzer.... but we have to look at the likelyhood that guys like that just are outliers and not every team has a guy like that. Last year the NL avg was 5.6 IP per start. The Cubs were the only team that averaged more than 6 IP per start, at 6.1.

 

Having a few back to back starts of 7 IP is nice, but the absolute reality is, you have to have a bullpen that can be expected to pitch 550 innings now. And not just 550 innings, but 550 quality innings, and some teams (the recent Royals come to mind) have 3-4 absolute shut-down guys in their pen. That's just the nature of the game.

[FVBrewerFan]

The other thing that really helps the BP is relievers who can eat up more than one inning, or even one batter. Stearns seems to be well aware of the importance of this, as you can see the Brewers doing this more and more. If you can get through every game using one less reliever than you typically would, that's huge.

 

I'm old enough to remember you really wanted at least 7 innings out of a starter, with some complete games here and there. But the game has changed. Moving forward, having a really good BP will be just as important as a really good rotation. Never thought I would see the day, but it happened pretty quickly and we're there already. Hopefully the next step is to eliminate the closer role. If you build the pen with at least 5 really good pitchers, any of them should be able to pitch the 9th- or even the 8th/9th. That will take a mind-set change from everyone- Stearns, CC, and the players.

[danzig6767]

The other thing that really helps the BP is relievers who can eat up more than one inning, or even one batter. Stearns seems to be well aware of the importance of this, as you can see the Brewers doing this more and more. If you can get through every game using one less reliever than you typically would, that's huge.

 

I'm old enough to remember you really wanted at least 7 innings out of a starter, with some complete games here and there. But the game has changed. Moving forward, having a really good BP will be just as important as a really good rotation. Never thought I would see the day, but it happened pretty quickly and we're there already. Hopefully the next step is to eliminate the closer role. If you build the pen with at least 5 really good pitchers, any of them should be able to pitch the 9th- or even the 8th/9th. That will take a mind-set change from everyone- Stearns, CC, and the players.

Yea, today even when a starter is pitching really well, managers yank the guy anyways because he'll be at or over 100 pitches. That just wasn't the case in the past because rigid pitch counts weren't in place like today. A starter is at say 105 pitches after finishing an inning and in most cases he'll get pulled regardless if he's pitching well.

 

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it just is what it is, so bullpens have significantly increased in importance. Teams no longer only need two shutdown relievers to close out tough games, the middle relievers who pitch the 5th/6th/7th innings also have to be at least pretty reliable. Have a bad middle relief core and it can sabotage things nearly as much as struggling back end of the pen guys can. Plus, those middle relievers often come in with runners on base where a game is teetering in the balance of likely winning or losing.

[pacopete4]

I love to praise Stearns for his awesome work rebuilding the farm but he needs to be held accountable for doing absolutely nothing to help change the bullpen woes. The rest of the guys on the team deserve better.

[trwi7]

I doubt Stearns cares much about the bullpen at this point and he shouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

[pogokat]

Changes are coming, no doubt.

[SomewhereInTime]

I doubt Stearns cares much about the bullpen at this point and he shouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

 

So let Wang, Cravy, Blazek, Suter, sit in the minors while Hughes, Drake, Feliz, Torres keep giving up boatloads of runs in the majors? What purpose does that serve for the now or the future?

[ZBTMP]

Wily's BB/9 as a starter: 3.2

Wily's BB/9 as a reliever: 3

 

Still can't throw strikes. Doesn't matter what role.

 

3.3 is MLB average. Wily's problem is more his below average swinging strike % and o-swing% despite above average velocity.

[ZBTMP]

I doubt Stearns cares much about the bullpen at this point and he shouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

 

So let Wang, Cravy, Blazek, Suter, sit in the minors while Hughes, Drake, Feliz, Torres keep giving up boatloads of runs in the majors? What purpose does that serve for the now or the future?

 

None of those guys possess a quality MLB arsenal or impressive secondary metrics that would predict they would be better than what we currently have or are any kind of longterm asset.