NCAA one and done rule

[paul253]

I favor a tiered system where college football and basketball players would receive roughly $2-5k

 

I'm pretty sure college athletes now, in addition to free tuition free food plans free housing and free books now get stipends as well, at least in the major conferences. Unfortunately as pretty much everything is with the NCAA it's not a uniform stipend so some schools are paying more than others, which of course is becoming just another recruiting tactic.

 

Many college football and basketball players (along with other sports) are from situations of poverty. I've heard countless stories of college athletes that can't afford to go on a date, because they have no money

 

True. But without a scholarship not only could they still not afford to go on a date because they have no money but they'd also not be able to afford to go to school. The best thing someone can do to get themselves out of poverty is to get a college degree and start a career. The college degree is the "teach a man to fish" in that "give a man a fish he eats for a day...." saying. Unfortunately many athletes don't understand this and many universities don't care about that either because for the player it's all about making it to the pros and for the school it's all about the winning.

 

This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study

 

It's an interesting idea but I'm not sure it would curb the problem. I think schools would still recruit one and dones but the players would be more spread out amongst the schools. Kentucky couldn't recruit 6 of them every year but a school like Marquette, who rarely gets any, could afford to take one or two a year.

 

I think the only real solution to this is the NBA changing their policy. Either let HS players enter the draft or make them stay 3 years like the NFL (or both like baseball).

 

On a side note this is becoming more and more a problem in college hockey as well. The best college players often stay two seasons at most.

[nodakfan17]

On a side note this is becoming more and more a problem in college hockey as well. The best college players often stay two seasons at most.

There are a lot of early departures in college hockey, but that's been the case for a while. It takes a deep roster to win a NCAA hockey title. Since a recruiting class in college hockey is typically 6-7 players, the loss of 1-2 players to the NHL is less impactful relative to college basketball. Good college hockey coaches craft their rosters to minimize the impact of early departures on any one class and NHL clubs will even steer their draft picks to specific NCAA programs because of their track record for developing prospects. Brock Boeser just played for North Dakota on Friday night (UND was eliminated by BU in 2OT) and the Vancouver Canucks on Saturday.

[nodakfan17]

I favor a tiered system where college football and basketball players would receive roughly $2-5k

 

I'm pretty sure college athletes now, in addition to free tuition free food plans free housing and free books now get stipends as well, at least in the major conferences. Unfortunately as pretty much everything is with the NCAA it's not a uniform stipend so some schools are paying more than others, which of course is becoming just another recruiting tactic.

I'm pretty sure every FBS school offers FCOA stipends, because FCS North Dakota offers them for hockey, football, and basketball (plus to an equal number of female athletes). It is a significant expense for a university whose only revenue sport is men's hockey. Football and men's basketball at UND are close to being revenue neutral (but still incur losses each year, like the vast majority of NCAA programs). Baseball and men's golf were cut at UND shortly after the introduction of FCOA, presumably to help offset the cost of the stipends.

 

Apparently, the FCOA stipends average $3000 - $6000 per year, depending on the university. I found a CBS article from 2015 that listed the top 10 stipends:

 

$6,082 Cincinnati

$6,060 Florida Atlantic

$6,018 Florida State

$5,491 UCLA

$5,666 Tennessee

$5,610 Stanford

$5,586 Auburn

$5,470 South Alabama

$5,386 Alabama

$5,364 Louisville

 

Interesting that the cost of living is apparently about the same in Tuscaloosa as it is Los Angeles or Palo Alto.

[nodakfan17]

I absolutely positively disagree that college athletes, even basketball and football players, should be paid. For one, they already receive full scholarships which include tuition, room and board, books, and food. For a 4 year student, which most athletes are, you're talking probably close to or even over $100,000. If they choose not to value their education that's their problem.

Paul, I'm 99% with you on this.

 

The tuition, books, housing, food, health care, travel, AND stipend all seem like a pretty good deal. Athletes also have access to networking opportunities that you or I would have envied at that age. Plus, I'm betting they don't have to try to hard to get the ladies' attention.

 

That being said, there's still a small part of me that has to acknowledge the disparity between the pay of coaches and administrators at the top programs and the value of a full scholarship - especially in college football, where there are effectively no other routes to the NFL.

[paul253]

The tuition, books, housing, food, health care, travel, AND stipend all seem like a pretty good deal. Athletes also have access to networking opportunities that you or I would have envied at that age. Plus, I'm betting they don't have to try to hard to get the ladies' attention

 

And let's be honest. They get academic breaks too. Look at all the students in all the sports at all these schools. How many of them are ever suspended for academic reasons? Some, but not many at all, and certainly not the really good ones. I'd also argue they get breaks in the criminal justice system too. Just last year I believe that OT from Bama got arrested for drug possession and possession of a stolen firearm. His case got no processed and he was suspended for like the first two plays in their game against Northwest Charleston Southern Tech university or whatever patsy they played that day. And don't even get me started about Baylor players got away with.

 

These players are basically celebrities on campus.

[MrTPlush]

This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).

 

That is a horrible idea as you would be fixing nothing. How many assured "one and dones" are there at the start of a season? Not all that many. What if I recruit a couple good prospects that have great freshman seasons and leave? Seriously I am going to lose multiple scholarships and ruin my recruiting for years? That just is not a good idea. It wouldn't even minimize "one and done" players, it would just spread them out.

[young guns]

It's a slippery slope. You need to make sure boosters aren't handing players $100 bills for a $10 autograph and telling them keep the change. I think maybe what i could get on board with is the NCAA taking their percentage of earnings, pooling it all together, then handing it out equally amongst every scholarship athlete. But again, these players are already getting a benefit. Some just don't see it as a benefit because they don't care about school.

To keep the slope from becoming too slippery, you could always cap their earnings from signing sessions and cap the number of sessions they can do. Like 1000 a session and no more than 1 a week or something. You would still have some boosters or whatever try to break the rules, but thats not much different than now and at least those who follow the rules would be able to get something. Full pay for them would be very difficult to figure out, but I think they should be able to make something off of themselves. Scholarships are a LOT, but its not the end all be all.

[superfly]

As someone who is paying about $1200/month ("normal" private school, not Harvard or anything, with no free rides from the parents) in the family for our two educations I am fairly offended when I hear people discount the value of those scholarships. That doesn't even cover the "perks" that come with fame...the grades, the women, the popularity, etc. Believe me these kids need no sympathy here, they live the life.

[Baldkin]

I like Nigel Hayes as a player but I can't stand his little act. If he is such a "poor student athlete" who can't even afford his lunch.....if the NCAA is taking advantage of him and not giving him what he "deserves".....if being a college athlete is such a difficult and unfair thing.....then quit. Go do what 99.9% of us do and pay for school yourself. Do what I did and work a third shift job and go class afterwards and then tell us all how hard being an athlete is. Go pay student loans for the next ten or fifteen years of your life like the rest of us do. Im sorry but I don't think these players realize how much of a break they've gotten for being good at a sport. And don't get me wrong, I get how difficult the travel and the practice can be. But they signed up for it. They knew what to expect going into this thing. If it's too hard or too unfair then walk away.

 

1 game at the Kohl Center easily pays for Hayes' entire 4 year scholarship.

The kid is a poor college athlete, he literally couldn't afford to go home and visit his family during his freshman year.

I'm sure you didn't look beyond the viral sign that got posted all over social media. What did he do with that? He created an account and raised over $10,000 for the local Madison Boys & Girls club.

 

https://www.landof10.com/wisconsin/one-family-will-never-able-repay-wisconsin-badgers-star-nigel-hayes-holiday-kindness

 

The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

 

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

 

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

 

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.

[MrTPlush]

As someone who is paying about $1200/month ("normal" private school, not Harvard or anything, with no free rides from the parents) in the family for our two educations I am fairly offended when I hear people discount the value of those scholarships. That doesn't even cover the "perks" that come with fame...the grades, the women, the popularity, etc. Believe me these kids need no sympathy here, they live the life.

 

I must have missed the part where you were apart of a million dollar revenue sports team. Comparing yourself to them is silly. The problem is the fact to "one and done" players the scholarship is worthless and for players at big time programs the value of that scholarship seems pretty miniscule. They want a cut of enormous profits and can you blame them?

 

That isn't to say I think they should be paid.

[jerichoholicninja]

Serious suggestion, just ditch the whole going to school part of it. Pay for housing and don't even bother trying to pretend these kids are getting an actual education. All the schools, conferences, and NCAA really want is a good product on the field to make money off of. Take the academic scholarship from the athletes and give it to kids who actually want an education. Taking away the time spent on academics would allow the kids to have a part time job, or train harder for their sport. Everybody wins.

[MrTPlush]

Serious suggestion, just ditch the whole going to school part of it. Pay for housing and don't even bother trying to pretend these kids are getting an actual education. All the schools, conferences, and NCAA really want is a good product on the field to make money off of. Take the academic scholarship from the athletes and give it to kids who actually want an education. Taking away the time spent on academics would allow the kids to have a part time job, or train harder for their sport. Everybody wins.

 

I always think of that. Except everyone keeps forgetting that 99.9% of college athletes aren't going pro. So 99.9% of athletes love that scholarship. That scholarship is worth a lot more than trying to find a part time job. What this thread is complaining about is a such a small sliver of the big picture(athletes who don't care for the education).

 

It isn't that athletes don't want or need the scholarship it is the fact that some of them are big parts of million dollar teams and the university is practically sacrificing nothing to have them there. Giving them an academic scholarship costs the university nothing and the university is making millions.

 

I try to think of ways to pay them in a fair/realistic way, but every idea is problematic. There is just too much variance among NCAA sports/schools it would be so hard to do. What Kentucky can do is way more than some low end D1 school can do. If you go by what the small D1 school can do what is even the point?

[Baldkin]

I try to think of ways to pay them in a fair/realistic way, but every idea is problematic. There is just too much variance among NCAA sports/schools it would be so hard to do. What Kentucky can do is way more than some low end D1 school can do. If you go by what the small D1 school can do what is even the point?

 

Because allowing a poor kid enough money for a plane ticket to visit his family on thanksgiving is something. A huge something to that kid & his family.

[danzig6767]

This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).

That's a very interesting solution to curb the number of one-and-done basketball players and I'd entertain it.

 

You'd essentially be forcing Kentucky or Duke to go without a scholarship for 3 years if they recruit a NBA lottery pick. Does that mean that the blue chip programs recruit fewer one-and-done players? Maybe that helps bring lottery picks to other schools and boost parity? However, I could see someone making the argument that temporarily eliminating a scholarship only limits opportunities for other would-be student athletes - and the NCAA is all about the student athletes (sarcasm).

What is so bad about a player leaving college early that it should bring punishment?

 

People attend college so as to advance their financial future. If say some math wiz on scholarship is recruited by multiple businesses and he leaves before graduating to take one of those jobs, would anyone fault that kid for doing so or think the university should face a scholarship reduction?

 

For some bizarre reason though if a college athlete leaves early because the NFL/NBA/NHL will be offering him millions of dollars, it's bad of the kid to do this and/or the school should face a scholarship restriction.

 

It's the universities and their conferences along with the NCAA who have turned college football and basketball into multi-billion dollar enterprises, not the athletes. If a small percentage of those kids happen to show to be talented enough to where a pro sport will pay them big money to leave college after only one or two years, good for those kids. Why do some have such a problem with that? Do you want to force those kids to stay in college longer and earn pennies on the dollar compared to their true worth just so the universities can make all of the money instead?

[danzig6767]

It's a slippery slope. You need to make sure boosters aren't handing players $100 bills for a $10 autograph and telling them keep the change. I think maybe what i could get on board with is the NCAA taking their percentage of earnings, pooling it all together, then handing it out equally amongst every scholarship athlete. But again, these players are already getting a benefit. Some just don't see it as a benefit because they don't care about school.

Those same boosters can gives hundreds of thousands to millions to help pay coaches like Saban, Harbaugh, Calipari, etc more than many NBA or NFL coaches, but god forbid they slip some of the athletes a few hundred for autographs instead of 50 bucks.

 

As for some of these kids not taking school seriously, no question that is the case. This is a prime example though of why major college basketball and football supposedly being amateur athletics is such nonsense.

 

So many of these universities twist themselves in knots lowering academic standards to justify letting in high talent kids who aren't anywhere near prepared to handle a college curriculum and then stuff those kids in a number of sham classes simply to keep them eligible to play. They don't give a crap about anything except making sure their prized athletes perform well on the court/field to help keep stadiums and arenas full of paying customers. Those schools are flat out using those kids.

 

Granted, not all universities are this way. Some actually have tougher academic standards and aren't willing to let kids be put it sham classes to keep them eligible. To many aren't though. They treat their players as employees, except they don't have to pay them.

[LouisEly]

I've posted this somewhere before, but a possible middle ground that still "teaches someone how to fish" is to give them a small expense account at the beginning of the year - say, $500 - and then have certain eligible expenses that they can submit with receipts for reimbursement to refill that account. Just like in the business world, when I go on trips I have to submit receipts to get reimbursed for my eligible expenses, teach students that skill and learn to be accountable for your expenses. If you have an eligible expense you use the money in the expense account to pay for it and then submit the receipt to refill the account. Money out, submit receipt, money back in.

 

Groceries - check ($40/week limit, they already have a meal plan that covers most of their meals). One plane ticket per year to see your family - check. One laptop at the beginning of your freshman year - check. Tattoos - nope. Alcohol - nope. Concert tickets - nope. You have the $500 as essentially fun money for the year. Receipt submissions are randomly audited (just like in the business world) and violations of policy have consequences.

 

As far as date money... please. As others have said, they have no problems courting women.

 

I do think that coaches salaries should be capped to somewhat level the playing field. Yes, they can go to the pros and make more money... but there's only 30 of those jobs available, with only about 5-7 opening up each year (and they are competing against pro assistants for those), so there isn't going to be some mass exodus of talented college coaches leaving for the pros.

[paul253]

The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

 

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

 

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

 

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.

 

But it' not a JOB. It's a game. And it's a school. And yes they do see a dime. For out of state students who stay all four years they see about two million dimes when it's all said and done.

 

And I'm not saying anything about Hayes personally, just what he represents. Good for him if he raises money for charity. I didn't give any sold out lectures or sell tshirts because I'm not a campus celebrity like him, which he is because he plays basketball. I don't think people care much for what I have to say.

 

But do you really expect me to feel sorry for him? Because he can't afford to go home (how much is a bus ticket from Madison to Toledo anyway?) Well if it weren't for his scholarship he'd probably never have been able to go to Wisconsin in the first place, considering it costs about $47,000 a year for out of state students. So likely the only reason he is even at Wisconsin is because he's good at basketball. Then there's a fact that not only does he not have pay for anything while there he also gets about $4900 a year just for being an athlete. Like I said if life is so tough for him he can quit, move back home and go from there.

 

Look I understand the argument for paying athletes. The NCAA brings in ALOT of money. But I am a little tired of these athletes acting like they are some poor, taken advantage of people who can't even afford the clothes they wear and the food they eat. They are given an opportunity that pretty much everyone wants. They go to school for free and they play a game that they love. When they leave school with their degree, which most do, they don't have any student debt. And while on campus they are looked upon as local celebrities and given all sorts of break academically.

[danzig6767]

The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

 

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

 

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

 

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.

 

But it' not a JOB. It's a game.

Of course it's a job. Colleges are paying these kids to play basketball or football for them and in return instead of paying them money, they are giving a scholarship which is of significantly less financial value than the money the players talents provide the universities and the NCAA.

 

Teams in both sports cut ties with players all of the time when they aren't as good as the coaches expected or newer recruits make other expendable. Or they pull scholarships at the last minute when a better recruit offers to come. Tom Crean was so famous for this a name for it was given called Creaning, but he is far from alone in this practice. Produce or we'll find someone who will, like employers do.

 

I'm hard pressed to think of any other multi-billion dollar entertainment business or business in general like big time college football/basketball where the actual labor force generating those billions is so restricted in what they can ask for in return, along with what kind of money they are allowed to earn during their free time.

 

What a racket the NCAA has devised, yet some want to rip on the players being scammed who speak out instead of universities and the NCAA who are making boatloads of cash simply because they can compensate the athletes pocket change in comparison to money they generate. Nigel Hayes has helped generate a hell of a lot more money for the University of Wisconsin than his four year scholarship cost them. He has every right to think that system is garbage, while at the same time acknowledging that he's very much enjoyed his time at Wisconsin. Both can be accurate.

[tmwiese55]

The NCAA is not responsible for the NBA implementing the rule. The NCAA isn't responsible for someone else not creating an alternate league that has a better compensation/training package. I agree the two main sports should probably get a little extra walking around money. But I'm somewhat sick of hearing over and over how the NCAA is evil in regards to CBB for the two reasons I just mentioned. NCAA is currently the best deal they have and outside of the top top players who are getting ripped off (because of the NBA rule) the vast majority of kids are getting a pretty sweet deal. If these players could generate so much income without the schools/community affiliations then someone should create a league for them or at least not ban them from the current league.

 

Football is a different problem due to the physicality but basketball is fixed very easily. Just get rid of the rule.

[patrickgpe]

i really with they would change the rule to this:

 

players can come out after high school, if they do not sign a pro contract, they an return to school and are no longer the property of that team.

 

if you either enroll in college as a freshman or return back to school after the draft, you are not eligible for the NBA draft after your sophomore year.

 

this is pretty close to MLB rules, it really eliminates the one and done rule which is ruining college basketball and the NBA to an extent.

[FVBrewerFan]

One and done guys don't have to go to college. Like Brandon Jennings, they can go overseas. They can go to some community college, or even go to one of the sports academies.

 

But they choose to go to a big program to showcase their skills, and improve their draft pick selection. So they are using the platform of KY, Kansas, UCLA, Duke, etc. for their own benefit, it is not a one-way street where the NCAA is taking advantage of them.

 

The guys who do stay and graduate get far more than a scholarship (which is valuable enough.) If they don't make it to the NBA, they still have far more opportunities upon graduation through the boosters, and just name recognition compared to average joe student. Again, both parties benefit.

 

NBA should either eliminate the 1 yr rule, or extend it to 3 years. I go back and forth which I would prefer. And then increase the stipend, I have no problem with that.

[tmwiese55]

Have to think if they tried to expand it beyond 1 year that someone would challenge it legally and it would finally get enough traction to make it illegal. My understanding is the only reason it's legal right now is that only old people are currently protected under age discrimination laws. Good chance if it's challenged the same logic would apply to all ages. To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

[patrickgpe]

To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

nobody is banning 18 year olds from working. i am an engineer, i wasn't banned form working as an engineer at 18, i was just unqualified and needed to get a degree first.

 

I do give you that these kids can do the job, so in that sense you do have a point, but if there is a job requirement to play in the NBA (one year of college, or whatever). that is no different that any white color job.

[tmwiese55]

To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

nobody is banning 18 year olds from working. i am an engineer, i wasn't banned form working as an engineer at 18, i was just unqualified and needed to get a degree first.

 

I do give you that these kids can do the job, so in that sense you do have a point, but if there is a job requirement to play in the NBA (one year of college, or whatever). that is no different that any white color job.

 

But they're basing it purely on age. Totally different. They don't have to draft them, if they're unqualified (as in your example) then just don't draft them.

[paul253]

What a racket the NCAA has devised, yet some want to rip on the players being scammed

 

Explain to me how the players are "being scammed". They know exactly what they are getting into and they all go in more than willingly. As I've said time and time again if they don't like it they can walk away any time they want. But ask anyone here, hell ask yourself. If you could go to college, a college you probably couldn't afford to go to or qualify to get into, for four years and earn your degree while paying nothing for tuition, nothing for housing, nothing for your food plans, nothing for healthcare, nothing for books AND receive a monthly stipend of a few hundreds dollars in exchange for playing on the football or basketball team.....would you? I sure as hell would. Stop acting like these players aren't getting anything in return for their time and effort.

 

Nigel Hayes has helped generate a hell of a lot more money for the University of Wisconsin than his four year scholarship cost them. He has every right to think that system is garbage, while at the same time acknowledging that he's very much enjoyed his time at Wisconsin. Both can be accurate.

 

Nigel Hayes can quit anytime he wants. He could have left three years ago to go play professionally if life was to tough. He didn't even need to go to college to play professionally in Europe. He wants the best of both worlds. He wants to go to college and enjoy his time and enjoy being a local celebrity and all that AND he wants to be paid substantially for all that, even though he knew that's not how it works.

 

If these players could generate so much income without the schools/community affiliations then someone should create a league for them or at least not ban them from the current league.

 

Exactly. These kids need the NCAA just as much as the NCAA needs them. Without the NCAA most wouldn't get anywhere near the exposure they get now, particularly in football.

 

players can come out after high school, if they do not sign a pro contract, they an return to school and are no longer the property of that team

 

The problem I see with this is players will have to much control over where they play. Say I go after HS and get drafted by the Bucks but don't want to play for the Bucks then they can simply go back to school and try again next year. I think a player should only be allowed to be drafted once. I know the NFL lets them enter multiple times but I don't like that. I like how NCAA hockey does it where a play can play in college until the team that drafted him signs him to a contract. But he remains property of the team for a certain number of years.