Catcher battle

[djoctagone]

with the addition of jacob nottingham, the brewers now have five catchers on the 40-man roster. i believe this is the most catchers they've carried during an off-season since 2008, when the club had five (eric munson, jason kendall, lou palmisano, mike rivera and vinny rottino).

 

as mentioned above, briefly in september of 2009, the club had five catchers on the 40-man (but only four active with the big league club).

[LouisEly]

Nottingham is nowhere near close enough to compete for a roster spot - he'll likely repeat AA - so why worry about carrying four catchers?

[BallFour]

http://milwaukee.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/09/22/brewers-minor-league-awards-2/

 

C Jacob Nottingham

 

"Biloxi is a tough venue for hitters, evidenced by the fact that only two Shuckers received more than 300 plate appearances and posted above a .700 OPS. Jacob Nottingham was not one of those players, compiling a .695 OPS with 9 homers and 48 RBI across 101 games. That was still good enough for a slightly above-average TAv, but most important for Nottingham’s value this season were the steps forward he took behind the plate. He graded out with +7.1 framing runs, caught 40% of would-be base thieves, and sliced his passed balls by more than 50% from last season. It’s looking more and more like Nottingham will be able to stay behind the plate, now the bat just has to start coming along a little bit more."

 

Just wanted to add some context to Nottingham's season and show that improvement did happen. To add to that great blurb by BP Milwaukee Nottingham cut his K rate from 30% to 22% increased his OPS from .641 to .695 all while having his BABIP crater from .317 to .255. I am no scout but after watching him a couple times the past two years his blocking of balls in the dirt has vastly improved so I am not surprised his passed ball rate got chopped in half. I wouldn't read into the walk rate improving as he got hit by an abnormal amount of pitches.

 

As already said he isn't MLB ready by any means but just wanted to point out he is progressing even though the surface stats may not put him in a positive light.

[KeithStone53151]

http://milwaukee.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/09/22/brewers-minor-league-awards-2/

 

C Jacob Nottingham

 

"Biloxi is a tough venue for hitters, evidenced by the fact that only two Shuckers received more than 300 plate appearances and posted above a .700 OPS. Jacob Nottingham was not one of those players, compiling a .695 OPS with 9 homers and 48 RBI across 101 games. That was still good enough for a slightly above-average TAv, but most important for Nottingham’s value this season were the steps forward he took behind the plate. He graded out with +7.1 framing runs, caught 40% of would-be base thieves, and sliced his passed balls by more than 50% from last season. It’s looking more and more like Nottingham will be able to stay behind the plate, now the bat just has to start coming along a little bit more."

 

Just wanted to add some context to Nottingham's season and show that improvement did happen. To add to that great blurb by BP Milwaukee Nottingham cut his K rate from 30% to 22% increased his OPS from .641 to .695 all while having his BABIP crater from .317 to .255. I am no scout but after watching him a couple times the past two years his blocking of balls in the dirt has vastly improved so I am not surprised his passed ball rate got chopped in half. I wouldn't read into the walk rate improving as he got hit by an abnormal amount of pitches.

 

As already said he isn't MLB ready by any means but just wanted to point out he is progressing even though the surface stats may not put him in a positive light.

 

Nice article, I didn't realize he graded out so favorably framing pitches. Very interesting bit. I've been to the Shuckers stadium, the field is mostly facing the ocean. The game I went to, many guys hit the ball hard but there were few hits in the game. Seemed like everything in the air hung up forever for the outfielders to catch.

[djoctagone]

Stearns and his comments crack me up. 4 guys separated themselves from other players in the organization. IMO Nottingham should not have been added. The guy repeated AA and put up garbage numbers.

there's a good chance that the brewers will cut ties with andrew susac, the only other catcher on the roster with a minor league option remaining (his final option). by putting nottingham on the 40-man, it gives them readily available catching depth for at least the next three seasons--and it's catching depth that will be familiar with the team's young pitching prospects, likely having caught many of them in the minors.

[Boomer5]

http://milwaukee.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/09/22/brewers-minor-league-awards-2/

 

C Jacob Nottingham

 

"Biloxi is a tough venue for hitters, evidenced by the fact that only two Shuckers received more than 300 plate appearances and posted above a .700 OPS. Jacob Nottingham was not one of those players, compiling a .695 OPS with 9 homers and 48 RBI across 101 games. That was still good enough for a slightly above-average TAv, but most important for Nottingham’s value this season were the steps forward he took behind the plate. He graded out with +7.1 framing runs, caught 40% of would-be base thieves, and sliced his passed balls by more than 50% from last season. It’s looking more and more like Nottingham will be able to stay behind the plate, now the bat just has to start coming along a little bit more."

 

Just wanted to add some context to Nottingham's season and show that improvement did happen. To add to that great blurb by BP Milwaukee Nottingham cut his K rate from 30% to 22% increased his OPS from .641 to .695 all while having his BABIP crater from .317 to .255. I am no scout but after watching him a couple times the past two years his blocking of balls in the dirt has vastly improved so I am not surprised his passed ball rate got chopped in half. I wouldn't read into the walk rate improving as he got hit by an abnormal amount of pitches.

 

As already said he isn't MLB ready by any means but just wanted to point out he is progressing even though the surface stats may not put him in a positive light.

 

Nice article, I didn't realize he graded out so favorably framing pitches. Very interesting bit. I've been to the Shuckers stadium, the field is mostly facing the ocean. The game I went to, many guys hit the ball hard but there were few hits in the game. Seemed like everything in the air hung up forever for the outfielders to catch.

 

At home he had a 758 OPS and on the road he had a 638 OPS.

 

He did great against young pitchers with a 955 ops but when he faced more seasoned pitchers he was 659.

 

His LR splits are very dramatic. Vs R 581 VS L 947

 

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=nottin000jac&type=bgl&year=2017

[pacopete4]

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

At best? Nottingham is 22. He's 22 and improved last season at AA. Catching is a very difficult position and he's already making huge strides defensively. Not only that but his offensive numbers did improve.

[Boomer5]

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

At best? Nottingham is 22. He's 22 and improved last season at AA. Catching is a very difficult position and he's already making huge strides defensively. Not only that but his offensive numbers did improve.

 

Only by the most technical of technicalities is the statement that he improved on offense a correct statement. By any measure he is a terrible hitter.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

At best? Nottingham is 22. He's 22 and improved last season at AA. Catching is a very difficult position and he's already making huge strides defensively. Not only that but his offensive numbers did improve.

 

Only by the most technical of technicalities is the statement that he improved on offense a correct statement. By any measure he is a terrible hitter.

 

Again, he is 22! And at AA. Catchers regularly mature late. Man, you really, really hate him. Or do you just love Khris Davis, and hate that Nottingham was the main return? Bubba Derby positioned himself as a future contributor as well, so that deal isn't looking half bad.

[KeithStone53151]

At best? Nottingham is 22. He's 22 and improved last season at AA. Catching is a very difficult position and he's already making huge strides defensively. Not only that but his offensive numbers did improve.

 

Only by the most technical of technicalities is the statement that he improved on offense a correct statement. By any measure he is a terrible hitter.

 

Again, he is 22! And at AA. Catchers regularly mature late. Man, you really, really hate him. Or do you just love Khris Davis, and hate that Nottingham was the main return? Bubba Derby positioned himself as a future contributor as well, so that deal isn't looking half bad.

 

Also catchers are highest on the defensive spectrum and generally are one of the worst hitting positions in the lineup. The midpoint slash line by position in MLB in 2017 was roughly 245/310/420 - good for 730 OPS. How many catchers do you see roaring through the minors with high 800s or better OPS at every stop? It almost never happens. Nottingham's OPS improved by roughly 50 points while his BABIP dropped 70 points. If his BABIP is even league average, that 695 OPS is probably closer to 750-775 range.

[Warning Track Power]

2012-2016 Jonathan Lucroy has spoiled us and what our expectations are for catchers.

[Humans Need Water]

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

At best? Nottingham is 22. He's 22 and improved last season at AA. Catching is a very difficult position and he's already making huge strides defensively. Not only that but his offensive numbers did improve.

 

Only by the most technical of technicalities is the statement that he improved on offense a correct statement. By any measure he is a terrible hitter.

Technicalities? By any measure? Fine, how about wRC+ going from 87 to 103 (above average)? Or don't you like that measure because it doesn't fit your narrative? You got schooled earlier when a ton of info was provided *proving* he improved on both sides of the ball. Just keep ignoring all data

[djoctagone]

stephen vogt agreed to a one year, $3.065 million dollar deal to avoid arbitration. the brewers continue to carry five catchers on their 40-man roster, three of whom are out of minor league options.

[JohnBriggs12]

stephen vogt agreed to a one year, $3.065 million dollar deal to avoid arbitration. the brewers continue to carry five catchers on their 40-man roster, three of whom are out of minor league options.

 

 

Susac might be the most vulnerable of anyone on the 40 man. I doubt he survives until spring.

[Outlander]

Bandy is more vulnerable than Susac since the two major league catching spots are pretty secure now. Susac has struggled but it is nice to have in minors and an easy call up when a catcher is injured.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Depends on the perceived value of Bandy vs Susac. IF DFA's now, I think Susac would clear waivers but Bandy would be claimed.

[coolhandluke121]

http://milwaukee.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2017/09/22/brewers-minor-league-awards-2/

 

C Jacob Nottingham

 

"Biloxi is a tough venue for hitters, evidenced by the fact that only two Shuckers received more than 300 plate appearances and posted above a .700 OPS. Jacob Nottingham was not one of those players, compiling a .695 OPS with 9 homers and 48 RBI across 101 games. That was still good enough for a slightly above-average TAv, but most important for Nottingham’s value this season were the steps forward he took behind the plate. He graded out with +7.1 framing runs, caught 40% of would-be base thieves, and sliced his passed balls by more than 50% from last season. It’s looking more and more like Nottingham will be able to stay behind the plate, now the bat just has to start coming along a little bit more."

 

Just wanted to add some context to Nottingham's season and show that improvement did happen. To add to that great blurb by BP Milwaukee Nottingham cut his K rate from 30% to 22% increased his OPS from .641 to .695 all while having his BABIP crater from .317 to .255. I am no scout but after watching him a couple times the past two years his blocking of balls in the dirt has vastly improved so I am not surprised his passed ball rate got chopped in half. I wouldn't read into the walk rate improving as he got hit by an abnormal amount of pitches.

 

As already said he isn't MLB ready by any means but just wanted to point out he is progressing even though the surface stats may not put him in a positive light.

 

Nice article, I didn't realize he graded out so favorably framing pitches. Very interesting bit. I've been to the Shuckers stadium, the field is mostly facing the ocean. The game I went to, many guys hit the ball hard but there were few hits in the game. Seemed like everything in the air hung up forever for the outfielders to catch.

 

At home he had a 758 OPS and on the road he had a 638 OPS.

 

He did great against young pitchers with a 955 ops but when he faced more seasoned pitchers he was 659.

 

His LR splits are very dramatic. Vs R 581 VS L 947

 

At best he might be a platoon guy vs Leftys at this point if he were to ever make it to the majors.

 

 

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. All these facts could just as easily be interpreted to suggest he's much better than his numbers.

 

Are you dismissing the difficulty of his home park because he hit better at home than he did on the road? Because the fact is he would have even better home numbers if he wasn't hitting in such a difficult park, and that would boost his overall numbers. It's like if a Rockies pitcher has a 3.5 e.r.a. at Coors and a 4.5 e.r.a. on the road, with a 4 e.r.a overall. That's outstanding for a guy who pitches half his games at Coors, period. And that's regardless of splits because achieving that e.r.a. at Coors is evidence of a pretty talented player.

 

Same goes for L/R splits. They're extreme but that's not unusual in a relatively short minor league season and the fact is he will still be allowed to hit against lhp's in the majors and boost his OPS if that really is indicative of how dramatic his splits will be (which it's probably not).

 

I noticed you didn't even address his ridiculous .255 babip. I don't know the home/road or L/R splits on that, but it's his babip for the whole season and is clearly a very strong indication that he was much better than his numbers, regardless of which splits would be boosted the most - not that the splits are that statistically significant in the first place, but I digress.

 

I'm sure every young player has much worse splits against seasoned pitchers. Look at how older non-prospect guys like Jungmann and Wilkerson can dominate the minors precisely because they have so much experience due to not being good enough to get to the majors. That's almost a non-stat to me.

 

I think it would be ridiculous to take a chance at Nottingham being selected in the rule 5 draft. He would be one of the first guys picked, and he plays a position of great organizational need and is the right age for when they will need a catching prospect on the big club. Bandy and Susac are both easily the guys to drop from the 40 before him.

[djoctagone]

reported signings of pitchers, if both major league deals, will require one 40-man roster removal. will it come at the expense of the five-man catching corps?

[JohnBriggs12]

reported signings of pitchers, if both major league deals, will require one 40-man roster removal. will it come at the expense of the five-man catching corps?

 

Susac, Webb and Baker would be most vulnerable. If it was me, I'd add Drake to that list.

[TJseven7]

Susac is brutal. Brutal. There is no reason to have him on the 40 man. You have pina vogt bandy. Nottingham is still young. Protecting him makes sense but Susac is not good or young. You can trade for a farm hand just as good for a pizza and a case of beer. The most glaring *** on the 40 man by a large amount.

 

I agree that guys like drake webb can go. Baker is logical.

Hell Guerra Wang and Lopez can go too.

 

But susac literally offers nothing. I'd rather they let perez catch. We know perez can't pitch better than the arms. I'd set perez at the -300 favorite at being a more impactful C than susac.

[djoctagone]

4 catchers on the 40 man seems really dumb to me. Especially since 2 of them aren't really any good.

then it's probably a good thing that you're not aware that the brewers are currently carrying five catchers on the 40-man.

[Humans Need Water]

Susac is brutal. Brutal. There is no reason to have him on the 40 man. You have pina vogt bandy. Nottingham is still young. Protecting him makes sense but Susac is not good or young. You can trade for a farm hand just as good for a pizza and a case of beer. The most glaring *** on the 40 man by a large amount.

 

I agree that guys like drake webb can go. Baker is logical.

Hell Guerra Wang and Lopez can go too.

 

But susac literally offers nothing. I'd rather they let perez catch. We know perez can't pitch better than the arms. I'd set perez at the -300 favorite at being a more impactful C than susac.

Have you bothered to look at Susac's history or did you just lock in on his 2017 injury riddled season? 1 catcher (Susac or Bandy most likely) will be traded since they're not carrying 5 heading into the season but thinking Bandy is comfortably sitting on the 40 while Susac is the biggest pile of deuce you've ever seen is absurd.

[StearnsFTW]

4 catchers on the 40 man seems really dumb to me. Especially since 2 of them aren't really any good.

then it's probably a good thing that you're not aware that the brewers are currently carrying five catchers on the 40-man.

 

Yeah I already posted to this effect but it disappeared.

[TJseven7]

Susac is brutal. Brutal. There is no reason to have him on the 40 man. You have pina vogt bandy. Nottingham is still young. Protecting him makes sense but Susac is not good or young. You can trade for a farm hand just as good for a pizza and a case of beer. The most glaring *** on the 40 man by a large amount.

 

I agree that guys like drake webb can go. Baker is logical.

Hell Guerra Wang and Lopez can go too.

 

But susac literally offers nothing. I'd rather they let perez catch. We know perez can't pitch better than the arms. I'd set perez at the -300 favorite at being a more impactful C than susac.

Have you bothered to look at Susac's history or did you just lock in on his 2017 injury riddled season? 1 catcher (Susac or Bandy most likely) will be traded since they're not carrying 5 heading into the season but thinking Bandy is comfortably sitting on the 40 while Susac is the biggest pile of deuce you've ever seen is absurd.

 

How do we allow this guy to keep talking down to people like this... not to mention he isnt even correct. Just mouthy arrogant condescending and rude... post after post.

[homer]

Please tone down the condescension. As a reminder, here are the rules of etiquette:

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