Catcher battle

[MVP2110]

With the way they have played in spring, Bandy has to be the starter right? With Pina backing him up and getting a decent amount of PT

[reillymcshane]

I'm not a big fan of spring training stats, but with Susac striking out 15 times in 26 ABs, you probably have to believe he's struggling.

 

I haven't watched any games thus far, so maybe that's a bad assumption. 26 ABs is a classic small sample size - but again, sometimes you can catch a trend even in small numbers.

[MVP2110]

I don't know that they have much to decide on besides a spring training battle. All 3 are similar and have similar pedigrees

[And That]

As I've said all along, given that Susac has two options and Bandy just one, it makes more sense to use one of Susac's options than it does to burn Bandy's final option. Pina has the club made either way.

[FVBrewerFan]

Susan has option(s) correct? That may be the tie breaker, if there is one. FWIW, Susan doesn't look confident at the plate. Like ST stats, that may not mean much either just something I noticed. I don't see any of the 3 being the catCher of the future, so may as well roll with Bandy and Pina to start with. Just hold down the fort until Houle is ready.

[jerichoholicninja]

The games I've seen Bandy catch he looks like he has a cannon. Susac has been a notable prospect in his career but has never been given a real chance before. On the one hand I understand giving Susac regular at bats in AAA but Pina is an older, nobody journeyman catcher who somehow worked his way into being considered for an opening day roster spot. I think Bandy and Susac are clearly the better players but it's probably Bandy and Pina that head north.

[FVBrewerFan]

Susan has option(s) correct? That may be the tie breaker, if there is one. FWIW, Susan doesn't look confident at the plate. Like ST stats, that may not mean much either just something I noticed. I don't see any of the 3 being the catCher of the future, so may as well roll with Bandy and Pina to start with. Just hold down the fort until Houle is ready.

 

Sorry, autocorrect on my phone seems to have morphed Susac and Supan into some sort of hybrid non-hitting overpaid aging pitcher.

[Jenkins5]

Bandy gunned down two guys in one inning a few games back.... I'll take that! Doesn't hurt his bat has been pretty nice so far as well. Pina has been solid. Susac has been pretty awful at plate, with options he seems the easy choice to send down.

[trwi7]

Erick Almonte

[Greenleaf1]

Pina may be a "nobody" but he had a great year at AAA last year, held his own despite limited playing time and played average defense in the big leagues, and is having a decent enough spring (small sample size, pretty low OPS for such a high AVG so far but still, again, holding his own). Pina is a DS acquisition with no options. He's as good as on the 25-man roster, they just can't say that. As to whether or not he'll be the starter, who's to say?

 

I think the real roster battle is between Bandy and Susac, and Bandy clearly has the edge on that one due to his performance so far. The question will be if Bandy is good enough to take the everyday catcher's role or if he'll backup Pina to start the year. Wouldn't surprise me if the battle continues past opening day and we see split playing time between whichever 2 it is until one distinguishes themselves.

[yoshii8]

I think it ends up being Bandy as the starter, and Pina as the backup to start the season. Like others have said, Susac has struggled, and has 2 options remaining.

[MrTPlush]

Pina may be a "nobody" but he had a great year at AAA last year

 

I mean he is 29 and been making AAA appearances since he was 23. Thats before considering he called Colorado Springs home last year. So his AAA stats are pretty meaningless.

[CheeseheadInQC]

I mean he is 29 and been making AAA appearances since he was 23. That's before considering he called Colorado Springs home last year. So his AAA stats are pretty meaningless.

To be fair, his breakout offensively came the previous year with an .840 OPS in the International League, so it's not necessarily all Colorado Springs related.

[reillymcshane]

The thing I liked about Pina was that he looked solid when he came up last year. Sure it was only 33 games, so I'm not going to get too caught up in small samples, but he hit okay, took his walks, and looked decent behind the dish. That's not a bad thing from a back up catcher. I certainly don't think he's going to suddenly be an all-star, and at his age, he really isn't going to change a whole lot. But catcher's often mature later in their careers - so I'm all for giving the guy a shot.

[MrTPlush]

I mean he is 29 and been making AAA appearances since he was 23. That's before considering he called Colorado Springs home last year. So his AAA stats are pretty meaningless.

To be fair, his breakout offensively came the previous year with an .840 OPS in the International League, so it's not necessarily all Colorado Springs related.

 

And was 28. Look I am not hating on Pina. I liked what I saw last year, but I highly doubt he is more than an OK back-up best case scenario. I am also all for giving him a shot too. I'd give him and Bandy 50-50 playing time and let them duke it out. Not like I am saying, "No ceiling Bandy gets starting PAs and Pina is the back-up." Pina can feel free to shock us all and be something close to starter caliber.

[And That]

Catcher offense tends to develop more slowly, which is why it's common to see guys like David Ross, A.J. Ellis, Ryan Hannigan, Jose Molina, etc., not have success with regular playing time until their late 20's/early 30's. The theory being that it takes so much work to be a good defensive catcher, and catchers generally have fewer at-bats on top of that.

 

Even guys who aren't big offensive forces can have long career starting later than usual. Henry Blanco debuted as a 27 year old for the Rockies in 1999, then proceeded to play for 14 (!) more years.

 

Which is not to say that Pina will find it all of the sudden, just that there is some historical context to say that he might.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think part of it is that catchers actually get more opportunities to play every day later in their careers. Managers always like catchers who have some experience, rather than going with a rookie- unless they can really hit. And that's rare.

 

But if you're a SS or OF, etc. it will be much tougher to make a team and get steady ABs as a 29 year old with a mediocre track record. I think given the opportunity, there would be plenty of guys who figure out how to hit in their late 20s, but by then the game has passed them by. Catchers (and LH pitchers) have a much better chance of getting a shot at an older age.

[brewcrewdue80]

Someone mentioned high BA but not so high an OPS. Is that wrong to be? Personally, Catchers aren't great to begin with. Give me passable defense and I'll take that high BA any day. Catchers arent exactly base running threats so does a High OB really have to matter? For their level you are batting them 8th generally if they are like basic catchers. Maybe 7th. Take Salvador Perez. Very positive defensively. Higher than 2WAR the last 3 years even though his BAs were .260/.260/.247 and OB was .289/.280/.288

Sure He hits 15-20HRs but I mean he's a very highly thought of catcher even though in 3 years his highest OPS is .725.

Any hitting from a catcher is a bonus, but it's not necessary to have a good hitting catcher to reach and win the WS. Perez batted mostly 7th for the Royals WS team.

 

Pina and Bandy at the moment let Susac enjoy some hitting at AAA. This is a true Battle and currently Susac is losing.

[monty57]

I like having three MLB caliber catchers on the 40-man so you can call someone up if one of your MLB guys goes on the DL. Since Pina has no options, that means he stays, likely as the backup. That puts the real battle between which of Susac/Bandy will start at the MLB level, and which will start at AAA. I agree with the consensus of the board that to this point Bandy has easily won that battle.

[jerichoholicninja]

As others have stated, Pina has to pretty much be a lock to make the team just because he's out of options.

[endaround]

I just don't get why you don't split time between your two 27 year old catchers in the hopes one breaks out instead of giving playing time to a 30 year old AAA journeyman.

 

And yes its only 262 PAs over numerous years, but Susac has a wRC+ of 104 in MLB. I'd take that over spring training stats.

[monty57]

I just don't get why you don't split time between your two 27 year old catchers in the hopes one breaks out instead of giving playing time to a 30 year old AAA journeyman.

 

And yes its only 262 PAs over numerous years, but Susac has a wRC+ of 104 in MLB. I'd take that over spring training stats.

 

I hope that the split leans heavily in favor of the "27 year old in hopes of breakout," with Pina getting a start or two a week. Meanwhile the "27 year old in hope of breakout" who goes to AAA gets to play nearly everyday there so he's ready when he gets the call.

 

Pina has shown some promise, so there's reason to believe that he can put up adequate numbers as a backup. I like the depth of having three catchers who are capable of playing in the majors. No reason to jettison one of them when you have the option of stashing someone at AAA.

[brewmann04]

I think Bandy deserve one spot at this point

[FVBrewerFan]

27 or 30, what does it matter? None of these guys are the "catcher of the future." If Pina can hit, at least he's a flip candidate at the deadline. Susac didn't hit in CS, he's not hitting now. It's not just the stats, watching his approach he looks lost.

 

Even with all that, I really wouldn't mind going with him and Bandy. But since Susac has options, to me that makes the decision easier to send him down.

[MVP2110]

Yea I'm fully aboard the Bandy starting with Pina as his backup train. I would like to see what Bandy could do with a full year as a starter.