2017 Starting Pitching Rotation

[JohnBriggs12]

Milone is the 6th starter on a very bad baseball team. If you go to most rotations and go 6 deep you'll find plenty of Milone types.

 

He is cheap, doesn't start anyone's clock and isn't blocking anyone who could put this team in the play offs.

 

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

Starting the arby clock should only come into play for very young and extremely talented pitchers, and surefire core everyday players. Those instances are rare.

[pacopete4]

 

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

I agree somewhat but it's case by case too. Why start a possible ace like Hader's clock this year on a bad team? Now, guys like Woodruff and Lopez make zero sense to me why they're not getting the call up to replace a few of these bums.

[JohnBriggs12]

 

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

I agree somewhat but it's case by case too. Why start a possible ace like Hader's clock this year on a bad team? Now, guys like Woodruff and Lopez make zero sense to me why they're not getting the call up to replace a few of these bums.

 

Your comment on Hader is eye-opening. They aren't a good team because they don't have guys like Hader. Final touches on development for talented players occurs in the major leagues not facing inferior hitters in the minor leagues. Hader is one of the guys expected to take this team from bad to good. How is he going to do that if you wait for the team to get good first? Doesn't make sense. Besides, they only need his services for a few starts now, and he can just be optioned back when Guerra returns.

[pacopete4]

 

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

I agree somewhat but it's case by case too. Why start a possible ace like Hader's clock this year on a bad team? Now, guys like Woodruff and Lopez make zero sense to me why they're not getting the call up to replace a few of these bums.

 

Your comment on Hader is eye-opening. They aren't a good team because they don't have guys like Hader. Final touches on development for talented players occurs in the major leagues not facing inferior hitters in the minor leagues. Hader is one of the guys expected to take this team from bad to good. How is he going to do that if you wait for the team to get good first? Doesn't make sense. Besides, they only need his services for a few starts now, and he can just be optioned back when Guerra returns.

 

Well if he's only there for two starts how is he bringing this team from bad to good? Like I said, I wouldn't of done it with Hader but Lopez? Absolutely.

[Jenkins5]

Brewers have 3 guys who all deserve a shot sooner than later if we are going to prepare to compete. I know it's only 1 start but all three looked like the dominant guys we expect. Hader, Woodruff, and Lopez are building blocks for the future hopefully. I don't always agree with Briggsy but he is right to an extent. We slow our path to future competitiveness the longer we wait to get these guys experience. Biloxi is too easy for all 3. Colorado Springs is worthless & can be damaging mentally to them. Neither are preparing them for what's next.

 

Now I do agree for some that service time is very important. As of right now, Lopez is the one I'd call up. I believe Hader & Woodruff are developing into very special TOR arms. Lopez has been in majors before and really I don't think his ceiling is as high as the others. I don't feel in 6 years we would regret not waiting to start his clock. I'd even start Woodruffs right now. Hader is only one I wait out.

[Boomer5]

Milone is the 6th starter on a very bad baseball team. If you go to most rotations and go 6 deep you'll find plenty of Milone types.

 

He is cheap, doesn't start anyone's clock and isn't blocking anyone who could put this team in the play offs.

 

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

Starting the arby clock should only come into play for very young and extremely talented pitchers, and surefire core everyday players. Those instances are rare.

 

The only guy whose clock matters is Hader. I'd have no problem bringing up Lopez and even Woodruff now if they are ready.

 

I'm not as a big a clock watcher as others. Worst case scenario is they play so well that they are expensive. Well then you find the money because they are stars or you trade them a year before FA for a truckload of talent.

[homer]

There's no guarantee that Hader would be any better than what they have now. Not worth starting his clock for a team that has a minimal chance of even breaking .500

[bork]

I don't think the Brewers are looking at their clocks when deciding to keep them in the minors. I think they feel that they could use some more development in the minors. Lopez and Hader both struggled at times in AAA. Woodruff is getting his first taste of AAA. Yes, I know Colorado Springs is rough on pitchers, but they can still learn and develop there.

[Boomer5]

I don't think the Brewers are looking at their clocks when deciding to keep them in the minors. I think they feel that they could use some more development in the minors. Lopez and Hader both struggled at times in AAA. Woodruff is getting his first taste of AAA. Yes, I know Colorado Springs is rough on pitchers, but they can still learn and develop there.

 

They are definitely looking at Haders clock. No reason to leave him down if your best option is Milone.

[adambr2]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization. Who is the last highly touted Brewer prospect that became a regular at the beginning of the season? Prince Fielder?

[pacopete4]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization. Who is the last highly touted Brewer prospect that became a regular at the beginning of the season? Prince Fielder?

 

I used to be against this but for as much as even crappy players are costing these days, I completely understand this thought process from a team like the Brewers.

[homer]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization. Who is the last highly touted Brewer prospect that became a regular at the beginning of the season? Prince Fielder?

 

I used to be against this but for as much as even crappy players are costing these days, I completely understand this thought process from a team like the Brewers.

 

It's something all teams regardless of market do. Cubs did it with Bryant. It's just the way the system is set up right now.

[Ennder]

It just makes no sense to bring up a pitcher for 2 or 3 starts with most likely erratic numbers of days off between if they are someone you plan on using in the bigs in the future. Why mess up their routine just to hope to get 1 more win for a big league club that isn't competing.

 

You leave them in the minors, in their normal routine and let them get to a point where they really trust their stuff and are in a groove. Then you bring them up mid season and give them a prolonged exposure to the majors before you shut them down when they hit whatever inning limit you have for them. There is absolutely no reason to bring up Lopez or Hader right now. All it does is stunt their development for a chance at 1 or 2 more wins, why bother doing that. I'd be really upset with the front office if they had handled it like that.

[LouisEly]

The Brewers #1 priority for Hader this season is to get his innings up to 150 so that he can go 180+ in 2018. Remember, he only threw 126 innings last year. The best way to ensure he gets up to 150 is in the minors. Calling him up this early isn't going to help with that.

 

Jungmann and Lopez should be getting the first calls, and they are stretching out Jungmann so perhaps that's the plan for a month from now. But Milone shouldn't be one of them.

[brewcrewdue80]

It just makes no sense to bring up a pitcher for 2 or 3 starts with most likely erratic numbers of days off between if they are someone you plan on using in the bigs in the future. Why mess up their routine just to hope to get 1 more win for a big league club that isn't competing.

 

You leave them in the minors, in their normal routine and let them get to a point where they really trust their stuff and are in a groove. Then you bring them up mid season and give them a prolonged exposure to the majors before you shut them down when they hit whatever inning limit you have for them. There is absolutely no reason to bring up Lopez or Hader right now. All it does is stunt their development for a chance at 1 or 2 more wins, why bother doing that. I'd be really upset with the front office if they had handled it like that.

 

I dont agree that 2 or 3 starts vs actual ML batters stunts their development. You see how your stuff works, and learn from the stuff that doesnt, or the mistakes. Go back to minors and let yourself work on your stuff a little more. Maybe higher FBs are working down there, but ML bats punish those.

 

Stunting their development would be calling one up and take Milones Bullpen spot while Milone continues starting.

 

There is reasons on clock watching, mainly being Super 2 status. These types if successful, are approaching 20million that 4th year of Arb.

But guys like Lopez and Woodruff I'm not as concerned being a David Price Super 2 types. Hader is the only one for now im really protecting from Super 2. We're pretty close right now to where the full year of team control is gained. About 6? Days away?

[brewmann04]

Hader still has work to do still have control issues.

[Brewer Fever]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization.

 

And 100% rightfully so. The Brewers should be one of the stingiest teams in baseball at starting arby clocks. Why on earth would anyone here ever want to waste a full year on a piece of the future in a year where contending is a fantasy. That kind of shortsightedness is ridiculously out of place in a small market.

 

This is nothing new either. Can't believe this still has to be debated.

[adambr2]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization.

 

And 100% rightfully so. The Brewers should be one of the stingiest teams in baseball at starting arby clocks. Why on earth would anyone here ever want to waste a full year on a piece of the future in a year where contending is a fantasy. That kind of shortsightedness is ridiculously out of place in a small market.

 

This is nothing new either. Can't believe this still has to be debated.

 

For the most part, I agree. It's business, and smart business. It's been years, but I thought that a move like sticking JJ Hardy back in AAA just long enough to screw him out of a year of free agency took it a little too far.

[superfly]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization.

 

And 100% rightfully so. The Brewers should be one of the stingiest teams in baseball at starting arby clocks. Why on earth would anyone here ever want to waste a full year on a piece of the future in a year where contending is a fantasy. That kind of shortsightedness is ridiculously out of place in a small market.

 

This is nothing new either. Can't believe this still has to be debated.

 

If we really have David Price on our hands, I would expect Mark A to open his wallet accordingly. Since I doubt that is the case, get the kids up and start playing them. Nothing I hate more in baseball than the clock watching BS teams play.

[ZBTMP]

I’m just going to drop these here in an effort to shameless plug my preferred option to avoid more Milone at this point….

Aaron Wilkerson – 6 IP 7:2 K:BB 0 Home Runs 3 ERA in MLB Spring Training

Aaron Wilkerson 4.2 IP 2 H 1 BB 7 SO in MiLB spring training start.

Aaron Wilkerson 5.2 IP 5 H 0 BB 8 SO

 

Carry on.

[brewmann04]

Anyone right now but Milone hate also he a soft tosser who can't blow a fastball by a hitter when needed.

[adambr2]

The Brewers definitely look at clock times just like every other organization.

 

And 100% rightfully so. The Brewers should be one of the stingiest teams in baseball at starting arby clocks. Why on earth would anyone here ever want to waste a full year on a piece of the future in a year where contending is a fantasy. That kind of shortsightedness is ridiculously out of place in a small market.

 

This is nothing new either. Can't believe this still has to be debated.

 

If we really have David Price on our hands, I would expect Mark A to open his wallet accordingly. Since I doubt that is the case, get the kids up and start playing them. Nothing I hate more in baseball than the clock watching BS teams play.

 

If we really have David Price, Andrew Miller, or Chris Sale on our hands, we really have no idea at this point.

 

Every team does the clock thing. Sorry, but you're talking about potentially 10s of millions difference and an extra year of control. For a small market, that 6 years of control that the CBA allows you is gold that you have to protect. Wasting one of those years when A) You're not going to win anyway, and B) Your guy isn't ready, is potentially very detrimental.

[Roderick]

I still don't get the issue with starting the clock on a pitcher especially for guys 23-25. What percentage of guys who come up to start ever get to FA as a reliable healthy consistent starter? The 23-25 year old guys are often at the cusp of their primes which often are ages 25-28. It's a very small percentage that don't fall by the wayside 6 years down the road as they reach 30. Hader is 23. Woodruff is 24. You avoid starting the clock on a guy like Ortiz, but not on Hader or Woodruff or Lopez.

 

Starting the arby clock should only come into play for very young and extremely talented pitchers, and surefire core everyday players. Those instances are rare.

 

Even if the pitcher is not great, you still save plenty of money by watching the clock for any major leaguers. You have not only the savings from min. wage to arby, but also the savings each year they are in arby. Plus they are more valuable as a trade asset the more years left of control.

 

Even if the pitcher is at the bottom of the pen, that is value. You could have started the clock on player A later and he has one more year of min. wage left. At that price the team would keep him on the roster. But if he started his clock earlier, arby says he is going to get $1.8M - for that price you decide he is not worth it and cut ties. Isn't as big a deal if you have a deep fringe bullpen roster, but even the last year we were paying a Boyer and Capuano to fill out the bullpen.

[FVBrewerFan]

Also, we're talking about 2-3 starts here right? I mean once Garza is back there's no room for Hader or anyone. Then Guerra comes back, and you're back to 6.

 

Sure, Garza can be DFA'd at some point, but then you still have 5. I don't get the rush to bring these guys up. This is a process, and still need to know what we have in Peralta, Nelson, Davies, and Anderson. Either as pieces for the future or trade bait come July.

 

That's my left brain. My right brain says I'm sick of some of these guys, and excited about the prospects. So just screw it and bring up Hader, Woodruff, and Lopez now. I think we're all going through that to some extent. My guess is that if Hader is really dealing, they'll bring him up at some point this season. For lots of reasons.

[brewcrewdue80]

Also, we're talking about 2-3 starts here right? I mean once Garza is back there's no room for Hader or anyone. Then Guerra comes back, and you're back to 6.

 

Sure, Garza can be DFA'd at some point, but then you still have 5. I don't get the rush to bring these guys up. This is a process, and still need to know what we have in Peralta, Nelson, Davies, and Anderson. Either as pieces for the future or trade bait come July.

 

That's my left brain. My right brain says I'm sick of some of these guys, and excited about the prospects. So just screw it and bring up Hader, Woodruff, and Lopez now. I think we're all going through that to some extent. My guess is that if Hader is really dealing, they'll bring him up at some point this season. For lots of reasons.

 

Exactly and your talking about 3 deserving prospects to pass on 2-3 starts to. At some point without moving two of the starting 6 their clock reverts in regards to days at time goes by and they are still in the Minors. Oh and it's only 1 or 3 getting this look. Say spot 5 opens at some point during the season right around the Super 2 cutoff, You don't have to call up the guy who got 1-3starts. Say you gave Woodruff the 3 starts, by the time late June comes around, Lopez or Hader, 1 of them are likely to be outperforming Woodruff in the minors. You call 1 of those 2 up then, save for October to call up the trio or 2 of the trio.

 

We're within the first 10 days so maybe that has to do with how the spot start with Milone wound up occurring. Anxious to see how they do #1's turn the next time it comes up.