Sonny Gray

[rickh150]

MLBtraderumors is showing that the Astros have an interest in Gray. How about the Brewers? Why not the Brewers?

 

Well, we always want good pitching, although Gray was far from that last season (ERA 5 +). In the prior three seasons, he was a poor man's Keyshaw. Seems to me Stearns likes high ceiling, buy low players. It's hard to find a better candidate for that kind of a trade considering how good he can be, how bad he was last season, and how desperate Oakland is to get top, young, cheap talent throughout the system with its revenue sharing $ coming to an end. Toss in the fact that we are loaded with an excess of nice prospects in the OF and at SS to deal. The formula, I would think, shows that we are a fairly good match.

 

Overall, This could be a very good time to get three years of a top of the rotation guy. Risky? Yes. Worth it? Probably. Dubon,Ray, and Ponce? We go no where without better pitching, and this still young guy could be a keeper for the short or long run. Also, it is interesting that Stearns' old boss has interest. Gotta think the Brewers do too.

[iKezims]

No way the Brewers would part with Ray in a deal for a guy coming off of a -0.5 WAR season, even though he was a 5.8 WAR in 2015. Gray's HR/9 spiked last year, while his BB/9 went up and K/9 went down. Not calling it concise regression, but it's not something I am parting with my #2 prospect over. Also, I don't know if you can label him a "buy low" if the Athletics aren't necessarily selling him low. However I wouldn't mind building a package around Brett Phillips/Ponce/third piece. Though I don't see the Athletics being overly excited by that offer.

[ZBTMP]

In the prior three seasons, he was a poor man's Keyshaw.

 

How poor is this man?

Kershaw has had a K-BB% over 27% the last 3 seasons. Gray's is 12.7% for his career. I guess they are both major league pitchers in the state of California, but I see noting else that is even remotely comparable between the 2.

[JohnBriggs12]

If there's a market for Sonny Gray, then there's a market for Jimmy Nelson. Nelson's never put together a full season like Gray has, but his good stretches have been very good and they are similar ages.

 

Gray is a lottery ticket. If he returns to his 14-15 form, he can either be your ace or a guy you can cash in for a lot more than a Corey Ray. But Brewers have guys at same stages of their careers who with a good first half in 2017, can be turned into a significant return either in July or next winter.

[MKE81]

Gray is far superior to Nelson. It's not even close. Gray has 3yrs of control and will be 29 in his final year when almost all our top prospects have filled out the lineup card. At that time Hader (26), Ortiz (24), Woodruff (26), Davies (26) will most likely take up 4 spots in the rotation and Bickford will be 24 if he pans out for a rotation spot. It's not as if all these dudes are young minor leaguers. Davies is already up. Hader is up this year, Woodruff most likely will be up by year's end. Ortiz will be in AAA at some point this year. These guys have had success at the upper levels already.

 

If we already had an OF mixture of Braun, Santana, Brinson, Phillips, Cordell having success with the team on the brink of playoff contention then we could afford to trade from a position of strength (Ray) acquiring a guy like Gray. But that's not the case.

 

Giving up Ray, a lefty with very good bat to ball skills who uses the entire field while also having 20HR power combined with plus speed and base running ability and good defense - along with Dubon (excellent bat to ball skills using entire field, 25+ SB speed, good defense from SS and even better from 2b with a solid arm from across the diamond) - along with Ponce (a contributor in some capacity, i think he ends up in the pen where he can hit 97-98 with 2 other average/above average pitches and solid control by that point). That's a lot of contributions for a long time we'd be giving up for 3yrs of Gray who won't be here for the playoff runs unless signed to an extension

[rickh150]

In the prior three seasons, he was a poor man's Keyshaw.

 

How poor is this man?

Kershaw has had a K-BB% over 27% the last 3 seasons. Gray's is 12.7% for his career. I guess they are both major league pitchers in the state of California, but I see noting else that is even remotely comparable between the 2.

 

 

Gray's ERA from 2013 to 2015......... sub 3

[rickh150]

If there's a market for Sonny Gray, then there's a market for Jimmy Nelson. Nelson's never put together a full season like Gray has, but his good stretches have been very good and they are similar ages.

 

Gray is a lottery ticket. If he returns to his 14-15 form, he can either be your ace or a guy you can cash in for a lot more than a Corey Ray. But Brewers have guys at same stages of their careers who with a good first half in 2017, can be turned into a significant return either in July or next winter.

 

Corey Ray is a lottery ticket then too. I'll error on the side of pitching.

[monty57]

I know we're not the Cubs, but I think it's good to look at what they did. When some of their prospects were up, but before anyone in the national media thought they were ready, they made the Lester signing. Everyone said it was too early, but they ended up making the playoffs.

 

I could see the Brewers making a move for a starting pitcher before the national media think they're ready, but I think that's probably next offseason rather then this one. Hopefully, our young guys progress over the next 12 months, and by next offseason we will have a much clearer picture of where we're looking good and what piece(s) we need to fill some holes to get us in the playoff picture.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think this move is a year to early. I'd consider it though if you parted with Nelson or Peralta or even Anderson to lessen the prospect impact. They will have a need for some sort of innings eater. I'd certainly have no problems with parting with Ray seeing as I think he was a weak pick. It's not like Sonny Gray was a late 1st rounder or worse draft pick himself. He was top half w/o looking. I'd then probably sell them on Devin Williams or Ryan Cordell.

[MrTPlush]

You aren't buying low on Gray. You are paying a premium which would include multiple guys in our Top 5. Makes zero sense for us.

[NievesNoNO]

Depends on what they'd want in return. Gray is not an ace, even at his best and I get the feeling they'd want that type of return. You never know though, he'd be worth asking about.

[MKE81]

I know we're not the Cubs, but I think it's good to look at what they did. When some of their prospects were up, but before anyone in the national media thought they were ready, they made the Lester signing. Everyone said it was too early, but they ended up making the playoffs.

 

I could see the Brewers making a move for a starting pitcher before the national media think they're ready, but I think that's probably next offseason rather then this one. Hopefully, our young guys progress over the next 12 months, and by next offseason we will have a much clearer picture of where we're looking good and what piece(s) we need to fill some holes to get us in the playoff picture.

"everyone" thought it was too early to sign Lester? He was signed for 6yrs. Even if they didn't make the playoffs in 2015 he's there for 5yrs of all the young guys best years. They already had Montero, Rizzo, Castro, Coghlin, Fowler as starters. 5/8 position players were established players. Arrietta, Hammel, Hendricks (coming off first year under his belt), Haren/Wood took up 4 rotation spots and were established players. Bryant, Russell, Soler/Schwarber filled the other spots. Bryant is Braun 2.0 so he doesn't even count - it was essentially guaranteed he was going to produce at a high level right away. So they were really only left with 2 position spots that were rookies and Russell was giving you very good defense regardless of what he did offensively.

 

The Brewers aren't close to this right now so this logic can't be applied to a Gray type right now or next year. The only established MLB position player we have is Braun and he might be traded. Shaw has a couple years. Villar just played first full season although has enough ABs over previous 3yrs to count toward another full season). Arcia/Broxton/Santana/Susac haven't played a full season yet and Thames hasn't been in MLB in 4yrs. Arrietta, Hammel, Hendricks, Haren/Wood as a unit are much better than what the Brewers have and chances are pretty good that most, if not all, of Nelson, Guerra, Peralta, Chase, Garza won't be here by the end of 2018. Lester was a FA - they didn't give up top prospects for him. If Ray is performing you need to see if your other OF prospects are panning out (Brinson, Phillips, Cordell + Santana/Broxton) before just trading for a Gray type.

 

2017/2018 will be more competitive than 2016 with more internal . Heading into 2019 looks like Braun, Brinson (1yr+ experience), Phillips (1), Shaw (4), Arcia (2.5), Villar (4), Thames (2), Susac (2.5) with a rotation of Hader (1.5), Woodruff (1), Davies (3), Ortiz (1.5), Bickford (0 - I'd like him as closer) - Dubon will be up by then and it's possible Nottingham is up. Ray, Diaz might be up by year's end. All of which makes us even younger than we already would be.

 

Given the youth movement and the Brewers expected low payroll, once 2019 comes around it makes sense to sign a top of rotation arm for 4-5yrs while filling in veterans as backups and pen arms. 2020 you can trade Davies and sign another FA pitcher. I see Stearns taking the same approach he's had the past year when it comes to everyone else. Villar was signed as SS but everyone knew he was going to 2b this year since Arcia was on the brink of coming up so he acquires Diaz. We'll need protection for starting or a high quality reliever so acquired Dubon. It's going to be a recycle process. Once all these prospects come up and perform they'll get traded for the next wave. Keep pay roll low and always stay young but use what money their is for key FA acquisitions.

[trwi7]

In the prior three seasons, he was a poor man's Keyshaw.

 

How poor is this man?

Kershaw has had a K-BB% over 27% the last 3 seasons. Gray's is 12.7% for his career. I guess they are both major league pitchers in the state of California, but I see noting else that is even remotely comparable between the 2.

 

 

Gray's ERA from 2013 to 2015......... sub 3

 

Kershaw's ERA from 2013 to 2016........sub 2

[monty57]

"everyone" thought it was too early to sign Lester?

 

I'm sorry, I tried to be clear that I meant "ready for the playoffs that season." The Cubs obviously had a lot of young talent, but when he was signed many people questioned why they were making the move when they did, as they were still believed to be a year or two away from the playoffs.

 

As I said, "I could see the Brewers making a move for a starting pitcher before the national media think they're ready, but I think that's probably next offseason rather then this one. Hopefully, our young guys progress over the next 12 months, and by next offseason we will have a much clearer picture of where we're looking good and what piece(s) we need to fill some holes to get us in the playoff picture."

 

A move like this wouldn't make sense right now. However, if some of the Brewer players take some steps forward, then it may make sense to obtain a top of the rotation starter next offseason. I would prefer a free agent signing rather than giving up prospects, but we don't know what will be available. Maybe guys don't progress (or prove to be flukes) and next offseason is too soon, but if guys like Villar, Broxton, Santana and Davies continue to play well at the MLB level, and Thames and some of our better prospects show that they can be good major leaguers, we will have a pretty solid foundation and could be ready to spend money on a good starter.

 

I started my quote with "I know we're not the Cubs." My example was simply that I think we'll go after a good starting pitcher once the foundation gels, and that will probably be before the "talking heads" of national media think we're ready. I think/hope that could be next offseason. It shouldn't be now, as we still have too many question marks, some of which should be answered this season.

[MKE81]

"everyone" thought it was too early to sign Lester?

 

I'm sorry, I tried to be clear that I meant "ready for the playoffs that season." The Cubs obviously had a lot of young talent, but when he was signed many people questioned why they were making the move when they did, as they were still believed to be a year or two away from the playoffs.

 

As I said, "I could see the Brewers making a move for a starting pitcher before the national media think they're ready, but I think that's probably next offseason rather then this one. Hopefully, our young guys progress over the next 12 months, and by next offseason we will have a much clearer picture of where we're looking good and what piece(s) we need to fill some holes to get us in the playoff picture."

 

A move like this wouldn't make sense right now. However, if some of the Brewer players take some steps forward, then it may make sense to obtain a top of the rotation starter next offseason. I would prefer a free agent signing rather than giving up prospects, but we don't know what will be available. Maybe guys don't progress (or prove to be flukes) and next offseason is too soon, but if guys like Villar, Broxton, Santana and Davies continue to play well at the MLB level, and Thames and some of our better prospects show that they can be good major leaguers, we will have a pretty solid foundation and could be ready to spend money on a good starter.

 

I started my quote with "I know we're not the Cubs." My example was simply that I think we'll go after a good starting pitcher once the foundation gels, and that will probably be before the "talking heads" of national media think we're ready. I think/hope that could be next offseason. It shouldn't be now, as we still have too many question marks, some of which should be answered this season.

I hear ya. I'm on board with you regarding a FA signing vs trading for a Gray type. No reason in giving up top prospects when we don't know how our other top prospects are going to perform once they hit MLB. Plus the payroll is very low then too. It makes more sense to sign a FA. I think the media is expecting 2020 at the earliest but I think 2019 makes the most sense in signing a FA pitcher. In 2018 I'm expecting Hader, Woodruff, Davies + 2 (ie Nelson, Peralta, Chase, Milone?) - which is why I'm not expecting a FA signing then

[A Swing and A Drive]

Sonny Gray has a higher talent ceiling than ANY pitcher currently in the Brewers system

 

The Brewers should definitely consider moving a package of prospects to offer for him.

 

I still think the A's will wait a year to trade him. Hopefully we are able to make a play for him then.

[pete]

I don't think that's a low price for a "buy low" candidate. He's a small guy, 5'10-5'11 who drags his arm through his delivery. He had two DL stints last season for his trapezius and extensor muscle soreness. When he was supposedly healthy, he was still getting hit hard. There's a pretty good chance his days of producing a 3 ERA are over and an unsurprising injury could make him a middle reliever or broadcaster.

 

I don't know if Nelson produced the numbers he did in the minors with the location problems that plagued him last season or what Ponce's future is, but considering the team keeps Ponce and 2 other really nice prospects, I'd say the chance of them helping the team more than Gray ever would is pretty high.

 

The team needs another starter like it could use another middle infielder. There are so many quality pitchers performing well in the system.

 

Personally, I hope the long term plan is to avoid the big prospect trade and the expensive FA signing. I'm hard pressed to think of a premium pitcher on a FA contract that is desirable if you could take it over. Price? Verlander? How about Lester going forward? What's he going to be in 2 years. Strassburg? I could see an argument for Scherzer, but man that's a big number.

[monty57]

Personally, I hope the long term plan is to avoid the big prospect trade and the expensive FA signing. I'm hard pressed to think of a premium pitcher on a FA contract that is desirable if you could take it over. Price? Verlander? How about Lester going forward? What's he going to be in 2 years. Strassburg? I could see an argument for Scherzer, but man that's a big number.

 

There's the rub. I wouldn't mind them signing a guy, and think that they probably will, but the situation has to be right. Can they find a guy in his late 20's who could head up our rotation without potentially bankrupting the franchise?

 

Even though we have a considerable amount of free cash flow going forward, I doubt we'll be able to sign a "true ace" on the free agent market. We're more likely to find a "low-end #1/high-end #2." These guys, especially these guys who are still in their prime and not past their prime, are not always available on the free agent market every year. That's why a trade may be the way to go if we feel we need to add someone to be our #1.

 

As I mentioned, I don't think now is the time. However, if Braun is not traded (which is looking more and more likely), then he's a Brewer for life. If Broxton, Santana and Thames all have good seasons, then we almost have to trade either one of them or Brinson by next offseason. If we headlined a deal with Santana, dealing from a position of strenght/depth, and targeted a pre-arby SP, then a trade might make sense. Trading our top prospects would be counter-productive to the gains we've made over the last 1-2 years. Trading the talented "odd man out" in the MLB OF situation could help us in both the short- and long-term.

 

You could also swap out "pre-arby guy next offseason" with "highly touted AAA guy this July." That may be more realistic.

[And That]

FWIW, FA pitchers after the 2017 season currently include (with ages, courtesy MLB Trade Rumors):

 

Jake Arrieta (32)

Clay Buchholz (33)

Madison Bumgarner (28) — $12MM club option with a $1.5M buyout

Trevor Cahill (30)

Matt Cain (33) — $21MM club option with a $7.5MM buyout

Andrew Cashner (31)

Jhoulys Chacin (30)

Tyler Chatwood (28)

Jesse Chavez (34)

Wei-Yin Chen (32) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $52MM on his contract

Alex Cobb (30)

Bartolo Colon (45)

Johnny Cueto (32) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $84MM on his contract

Yu Darvish (31)

John Danks (33)

R.A. Dickey (43) – $8MM club option with $500K buyout

Nathan Eovaldi (28)

Marco Estrada (34)

Yovani Gallardo (32) — $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Jaime Garcia (31)

Matt Garza (34) — $13MM vesting option/$5MM club option (can become $1MM club option based on DL time)

Gio Gonzalez (32) – $12MM club option, vests with 180 innings pitched in 2017

Miguel Gonzalez (34)

Jeremy Hellickson (31)

Derek Holland (31)

Ubaldo Jimenez (34)

Ian Kennedy (33) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $43MM on his contract

John Lackey (39)

Francisco Liriano (34)

Jordan Lyles (27)

Lance Lynn (31)

Wade Miley (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout

Mike Minor (30) — $10MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout

Matt Moore (29) — $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Ricky Nolasco (35) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Martin Perez (27) — $6MM club option with a $2.45MM buyout

Michael Pineda (29)

Clayton Richard (34)

Tyson Ross (31)

CC Sabathia (37)

Anibal Sanchez (34) — $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout

Hector Santiago (30)

Chris Sale (29) — $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Masahiro Tanaka (29) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $67MM on his contract

Chris Tillman (30)

Josh Tomlin (33) — $3MM club option with a $750K buyout

Jason Vargas (35)

Chris Young (39) — $8MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout

[And That]

The name that initially jumps out at me on that list is Michael Pineda. He seemed to pitch a lot better than his ERA indicated and his FB was back up to 94 last year. Then again, if he performs well enough this year to warrant a nice FA contract, the Yankees certainly have the resources to sign him to an extension.

 

Tanaka might well opt out.

 

Perez has a four pitch mix and throws hard enough, but results have not been there. If he repeats his 2016, I guess the Rangers pick up the option? It's certainly not exorbitant for back end starting pitcher with some potential upside remaining.

 

Chatwood gets lots of ground balls. Lots and lots of ground balls. All the time ground balls.

[monty57]

The name that initially jumps out at me on that list is Michael Pineda. He seemed to pitch a lot better than his ERA indicated and his FB was back up to 94 last year. Then again, if he performs well enough this year to warrant a nice FA contract, the Yankees certainly have the resources to sign him to an extension.

 

Tanaka might well opt out.

 

Perez has a four pitch mix and throws hard enough, but results have not been there. If he repeats his 2016, I guess the Rangers pick up the option? It's certainly not exorbitant for back end starting pitcher with some potential upside remaining.

 

Chatwood gets lots of ground balls. Lots and lots of ground balls. All the time ground balls.

 

Thanks for providing the list. I looked at that a while back and thought Chatwood would be a good target. He shouldn't demand a king's ransom, and could be a darn good pitcher if he didn't have to pitch half his games in Colorado. Plus, with our newfound interest in defense, we might even be able to help out a ground ball pitcher by 2018 :-)

 

Even if he didn't turn out to be our #1, he would be a very solid guy to have in a rotation while we're vying for the playoffs. Throw him and Davies as veterans with guys like Hader, Ortiz, Woodruff, etc. filling out the other spots, and we could have a pretty solid rotation top to bottom.

[brewcrewdue80]

FWIW, FA pitchers after the 2017 season currently include (with ages, courtesy MLB Trade Rumors):

 

Jake Arrieta (32)

Clay Buchholz (33)

Madison Bumgarner (28) — $12MM club option with a $1.5M buyout

Trevor Cahill (30)

Matt Cain (33) — $21MM club option with a $7.5MM buyout

Andrew Cashner (31)

Jhoulys Chacin (30)

Tyler Chatwood (28)

Jesse Chavez (34)

Wei-Yin Chen (32) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $52MM on his contract

Alex Cobb (30)

Bartolo Colon (45)

Johnny Cueto (32) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $84MM on his contract

Yu Darvish (31)

John Danks (33)

R.A. Dickey (43) – $8MM club option with $500K buyout

Nathan Eovaldi (28)

Marco Estrada (34)

Yovani Gallardo (32) — $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Jaime Garcia (31)

Matt Garza (34) — $13MM vesting option/$5MM club option (can become $1MM club option based on DL time)

Gio Gonzalez (32) – $12MM club option, vests with 180 innings pitched in 2017

Miguel Gonzalez (34)

Jeremy Hellickson (31)

Derek Holland (31)

Ubaldo Jimenez (34)

Ian Kennedy (33) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $43MM on his contract

John Lackey (39)

Francisco Liriano (34)

Jordan Lyles (27)

Lance Lynn (31)

Wade Miley (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout

Mike Minor (30) — $10MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout

Matt Moore (29) — $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Ricky Nolasco (35) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Martin Perez (27) — $6MM club option with a $2.45MM buyout

Michael Pineda (29)

Clayton Richard (34)

Tyson Ross (31)

CC Sabathia (37)

Anibal Sanchez (34) — $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout

Hector Santiago (30)

Chris Sale (29) — $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Masahiro Tanaka (29) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $67MM on his contract

Chris Tillman (30)

Josh Tomlin (33) — $3MM club option with a $750K buyout

Jason Vargas (35)

Chris Young (39) — $8MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout

 

 

The problem to me is cost. Arrieta and those top guys bring to much risk for the cost. You sink in 18-25mil...Arrieta is probably a 30-34mil pitcher but after him, you sink around 20mil and suggesting Milw is a 120mil payroll moving forward. 1 shoulder/elbow injury on that investment is taking 1/6 or better a team's payroll.

You move to types that you consider potential 2s but most likely #3s. That's a problem then because we are loaded with most likely #3s who will cost Pre-Arb salaries but now you block them.

 

Clearly, at some point the talent depth will exceed the need on 25man roster. How do you solve that? You trade for a Pitcher that is a #3 with potential of low #1 while he's below 18million a year cost. Let's crystal ball this and say it's someone like Jonathon Gray of Colorado. A guy who's ERA is bloated pitching at Coors but moving away from Coors creates him reaching his ceiling over the floor there. I mean at some point you expect the guys who on draft or signing day as huge talents approach showing off those talents. I'm speaking Lara, Harrison, Gatewood, Clark, Phillips, Medeiros, Nathan Kirby, The two Williams.

It'll become Lara/Gatewood/Erceg? Broxton/Brinson/Ray/Phillips/Clark/Harrison? And I'm sure I'm ignoring 2 or 3. Villar/Arcia/Diaz/Dubon to start MIF. This will be where Stearns makes his GM statement. How he trades away the talent and for what?

 

Let's give Santana and Broxton reaching their ceilings. You are stuck with Brinson/Phillips/Ray/Clark to trade away. with 2 being left behind to fill Braun and 5th OF. At this moment that is 4 among top 65 on MLB.com. and you can only have 2.

 

See, I think what will happen is Stearns and co. figure out who is the highest ceiling among these guys and stick to them and seek other talents. Villar/Broxton/Santana just may be it. Which if the case drafting Ray, may have been the shiny high floor type we boo about on ceiling and plan all along is tradebait. Now Colorado atop their OF prospects don't happen to have one. Sure they graduated Dahl and Tapia but that doesn't make them deep at OF for 2017 and beyond. So a Ray or Brinson trade offer could get us that SP without spending FA money. And not for a second regret the loss since there are better OFs already in place or coming.

[MKE81]

I disagree that Gray is better than anyone in our system's ceiling. Hader can be just as good. His A (2013), A+ (2014), AA (2015/2016) WHIP, H9, BB9, SO9 rival Gray. Similar WHIP and H9 with Gray having a better BB9 and Hader SO9. ERA being 2.7 - 3 for Hader. Age/level are all relative. Hader will be 23 this year and at that age Gray had 11-12 starts that first season so we'll see what Hader can put up away from CS.

 

We aren't making the playoffs in 2017/2018 and Gray's a FA after 2019 so what's the rationale for trading away a package of prospects to acquire this pitcher? He doesn't help us when it's most needed. That's what it should come down too

 

If I'm Stearns I make my move at the break in 2018 or 2019 when I trade Villar. I know he doesn't like packaging players but if it takes adding to Villar to bring back a young stud rotation arm with 5yrs control then so be it. That's the trade trip I use for the big arm as it should keep all the top prospects in place. Although I'm also for signing a FA depending who, age, contract, etc. If the crowded OF makes great strides they'll also be worth good returns

[brewcrewdue80]

I disagree that Gray is better than anyone in our system's ceiling. Hader can be just as good. His A (2013), A+ (2014), AA (2015/2016) WHIP, H9, BB9, SO9 rival Gray. Similar WHIP and H9 with Gray having a better BB9 and Hader SO9. ERA being 2.7 - 3 for Hader. Age/level are all relative. Hader will be 23 this year and at that age Gray had 11-12 starts that first season so we'll see what Hader can put up away from CS.

 

We aren't making the playoffs in 2017/2018 and Gray's a FA after 2019 so what's the rationale for trading away a package of prospects to acquire this pitcher? He doesn't help us when it's most needed. That's what it should come down too

 

If I'm Stearns I make my move at the break in 2018 or 2019 when I trade Villar. I know he doesn't like packaging players but if it takes adding to Villar to bring back a young stud rotation arm with 5yrs control then so be it. That's the trade trip I use for the big arm as it should keep all the top prospects in place. Although I'm also for signing a FA depending who, age, contract, etc. If the crowded OF makes great strides they'll also be worth good returns

 

Gray has barely over 1 year of service. At the moment he's not to be a free agent until after 2022. I'm going to guess based on his time he would need just 45days roughly to gain a year of control but become a Super 2.

[brewerfan82]

We aren't making the playoffs in 2017/2018 and Gray's a FA after 2019 so what's the rationale for trading away a package of prospects to acquire this pitcher?

 

Gray has barely over 1 year of service. At the moment he's not to be a free agent until after 2022. I'm going to guess based on his time he would need just 45days roughly to gain a year of control but become a Super 2.

According to BR.com he has just over 3 years of service time (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grayso01.shtml) and according to Spotrac he is arbitration eligible through 2019 before becoming a FA (http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/oakland-athletics/sonny-gray-14331/). Perhaps you were confusing him with Jon Gray? (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grayjo02.shtml)