How do we add a FRANCHISE HITTER and/or AN ACE LEVEL PITCHER to our organization?

[A Swing and A Drive]

The Brewers have collected some nice talent that could become solid regulars at the MLB level. However, our system currently lacks elite level talent (along the lines of a young Ryan Braun). Brinson has 30-30 all-star type potential but besides him, I don't see that high of ceiling for most other players in our system. Ray, Clark, Phillips and Diaz could all be solid regulars but I doubt they will be stars. Along those same lines, our best pitching prospects, Hader, Ortiz and Bickford, I feel only have the talent to reach a #2 or #3 starter type ceiling.

 

Part of this issue, is that the Brewers didn't finish low enough in the standings to pick high enough to land a generational type talent in the next draft (they pick #9 overall in June) unless they get extremely lucky.

 

Look at the who Cubs were able to land, talent-wise by picking in the top 5 in recent drafts:

2013 #2 overall- 3B Kris Bryant

2014 #4 overall- OF/C Kyle Schwarber

 

That's the elite type of talent the Brewers DESPERATELY need to add to their system and those type rarely get traded.

 

On the positive side, the Cubs themselves were able to add quality players picking #9 in 2011 and 2015.

2011 #9 overall- 3B Javier Baez

2015 #9 overall- OF/2B Ian Happ

 

The Brewers really need to find a way to add a couple franchise building blocks to their farm system, i.e. a FRANCHISE HITTER or a PITCHER WITH AN ACE CEILING.

 

I'm just not seeing that right now, as players that are already in our system.

 

I don't think Ryan Braun's trade value will net us one either....I'm sorry to say.

 

For the Brewers to truly build a World Series contender, I'm afraid we need to finish 2017 and 2018 as one of the worst 5 teams in baseball AND hit on our draft picks.

[Boomer5]

No one wants to hear the answer but it starts with the letter T.

 

Thats the most direct way to land one via the draft and associated bonus pool $$$$.

 

Other than that, get lucky with some trades for prospects and hope one pans out to be a plus plus guy.

[rickh150]

The Brewers have collected some nice talent that could become solid regulars at the MLB level. However, our system currently lacks elite level talent (along the lines of a young Ryan Braun). Brinson has 30-30 all-star type potential but besides him, I don't see that high of ceiling for most other players in our system. Ray, Clark, Phillips and Diaz could all be solid regulars but I doubt they will be stars. Along those same lines, our best pitching prospects, Hader, Ortiz and Bickford, I feel only have the talent to reach a #2 or #3 starter type ceiling.

 

Part of this issue, is that the Brewers didn't finish low enough in the standings to pick high enough to land a generational type talent in the next draft (they pick #9 overall in June) unless they get extremely lucky.

 

Look at the who Cubs were able to land, talent-wise by picking in the top 5 in recent drafts:

2013 #2 overall- 3B Kris Bryant

2014 #4 overall- OF/C Kyle Schwarber

 

That's the elite type of talent the Brewers DESPERATELY need to add to their system and those type rarely get traded.

 

On the positive side, the Cubs themselves were able to add quality players picking #9 in 2011 and 2015.

2011 #9 overall- 3B Javier Baez

2015 #9 overall- OF/2B Ian Happ

 

The Brewers really need to find a way to add a couple franchise building blocks to their farm system, i.e. a FRANCHISE HITTER or a PITCHER WITH AN ACE CEILING.

 

I'm just not seeing that right now, as players that are already in our system.

 

I don't think Ryan Braun's trade value will net us one either....I'm sorry to say.

 

For the Brewers to truly build a World Series contender, I'm afraid we need to finish 2017 and 2018 as one of the worst 5 teams in baseball AND hit on our draft picks.

 

You may be right, and I hear ya. I'd vote for a true draft in the first round where all non-playoff teams pick out of a hat for the first 20 draft positions. That would end all talk of tanking/perception of tanking.

Yet, we are drafting fairly low now. Great players are drafted all throughout the first few rounds. Plus, we got Villar in a trade, and I'm hoping he has star written on him by season's end. Plus, if you say we have #2 type pitchers, that means in my mind that they could become #1's with some work.

[markedman5]

You have to do your homework and get lucky.....the best hitter in baseball wasn't drafted in the top 5 picks.

 

Keyshaw was drafted 7th.....Scherzer 11th......Lester was a 2nd round pick....Baumgarner was selected 10th

[monty57]

The Brewers have one of, if not the the top farm systems in all of baseball. Very few players ever pitch like Kershaw or hit like Braun, but we are stacked with talent, and some of them could become a "franchise bat" or "top of the rotation" arm.

 

Brinson is coming off an injury-plagued year, and MLB.com still has him as the #14 overall player in the minors. Ray is still a youngling, and he's already ranked #27. If they live up to their potential, they could be extremely valuable all-around players. It sucks that Bickford got suspended, but we have more pitching in the minors than ever in Brewer history. Some of these guys will pan out and make good MLB pitchers.

 

As to getting generational talent like a Harper or Trout, you have to get really lucky, as they don't come around all too often, but we have a lot of talent in the minors, including some who could become All Star caliber players.

[A Swing and A Drive]

The Brewers have "done their homework" on hitters in past drafts (especially under Jack Z), however, it seems like the Brewers organization is TERRIBLE at scouting, drafting AND developing young pitchers.

 

I mean Ben Sheets was drafted in 1999. I'd say that since Teddy Higuera, Sheets was the ONLY ace level pitcher that we drafted and developed through our system.

 

That means the Brewers have not drafted or developed an ACE in the entire MILLER PARK ERA! Gallardo was drafted in the 2nd round of 2004 draft but I'd argue that he peaked as a #2 starter in reality.

 

That means that in the last 30 years, the Brewers have drafted one ACE and one #2 starter. The current top 4 SP prospects were all acquired via trade. Hader (Astros), Ortiz (Rangers), Bickford (Giants), Diplan (Rangers).

 

Here's hoping Nathan Kirby becomes the next Sonny Gray!

[MadThinker88]

You have to do your homework and get lucky.....the best hitter in baseball wasn't drafted in the top 5 picks.

 

Keyshaw was drafted 7th.....Scherzer 11th......Lester was a 2nd round pick....Baumgarner was selected 10th

 

Agreed, this is part of it. Out of the box thinking to solve a problem is another part.

For example: the only draft picks that can be dealt are the Competitve Balance Selections and the Brewers are fortunate enough to have one of those trade able items for each of the next 5 drafts. Use that resource for more then just a selection/ adding money to the bonus pool.

 

Find a club that has one of the talents we seek (preferably a club that has no 1st round due to a FA signing) and send away 1 of our 'good but not generational changing' prospects & that years comp pick for that talent.

 

EDIT: Allow me to amend so my idea is more clear - take Corey Ray (or other Brewer top 10 Prospect & Comp Pick to another team for top prospect X. Making the move in April or May when comp pick is still available for 2017 and the Brewer prospect is performing at or better then expected levels. I'm talking upgrading of a talent that last step, not from ground floor to the top floor.

[A Swing and A Drive]

That's interesting idea about trading a Competitive Balance pick. However, if you ever played in a fantasy league, you know that owners don't often make trades like that. Owner #1 to Owner #2 "I'll give you my Competitive draft pick and my marginal prospect for your elite prospect?"

 

A classic 2 for 1 trade where our team gets the best player in the deal.

 

These rarely happen.

 

 

Unless we get lucky and there is a 12 year old GM in the league...

[MadThinker88]

That's interesting idea about trading a Competitive Balance pick. However, if you ever played in a fantasy league, you know that owners don't often make trades like that. Owner #1 to Owner #2 "I'll give you my Competitive draft pick and my marginal prospect for your elite prospect?"

 

A classic 2 for 1 trade where our team gets the best player in the deal.

 

These rarely happen.

 

Unless we get lucky and there is a 12 year old GM in the league...

 

Understand your point but I think you missed my suggestion/ idea. Will amend it to make more clear.

Consider an April or May trade of Corey Ray (or other Brewer top 10 prospect) & the Comp Pick for Player X.

[FVBrewerFan]

KC made it to two WS and won it all without developing a franchise pitcher OR hitter. It can be done.

 

If they build a team with really good hitters 1-8, defense, speed...then you honestly don't need another Braun type franchise hitter.

 

If they build a rotation of 4 or 5 guys with #2 starter ability with a really good BP, that can be enough. You don't need a franchise pitcher.

 

With that said, we have no idea if there is a franchise pitcher or hitter who will arrive on the scene in the next few years. It's entirely possible.

[A Swing and A Drive]

How do you feel this franchise pitcher or hitter will "arrive on the scene" in the next few years?

 

Via draft or trade I assume?

 

Or are you implying that we may currently have franchise players in our system?

 

I'm just not seeing a franchise level talent currently in our system, especially on the pitching side of things.

[FVBrewerFan]

How do you feel this franchise pitcher or hitter will "arrive on the scene" in the next few years?

 

Via draft or trade I assume?

 

Or are you implying that we may currently have franchise players in our system?

 

I'm just not seeing a franchise level talent currently in our system, especially on the pitching side of things.

 

Yes, I'm implying they may already be in the system. Woodruff, Hader, Diplan, Peralta, Ortiz...maybe others. Just because they don't "project" doesn't mean it's a given. Most minor league players end up being better or worse than their projection.

 

Same thing for the bats. Heck, Villar is almost that franchise bat already if the trend continues. Brinson, Erceg, Diaz, Ray... you just never know.

 

Besides, as I said in my original post, I don't think getting that ace or franchise hitter is as important as having a roster of 25 really good players.

[3and2Fastball]

Mike Trout wasn't a Top 10 pick. You have to nail your picks and develop them. No shortcuts

[adambr2]

What others said. Scout well and get lucky, that's all we can do. Trout wasn't even a top 20 pick, lot of teams passed on him. Luck has a lot to do with it.

 

If you're drafting #1, some drafts have your Bryce Harper types who are as close to a sure thing as you can get, but these are rare. Most drafts don't have one of those types. The 2016 draft didn't.

 

Maybe Brinson, Diaz, or Ray will turn out to be that guy, it's just too early to say. Some guys flop and others turn out much better than you expect. Hard to believe it with a guy like Jonathan Lucroy, but he was never even a top 100 prospect. Sometimes it's just a crapshoot.

[FVBrewerFan]

Another thing. It is possible for a player to have a franchise player type season, not necessarily a career. Marco Rivera for a quick example, but there are plenty of other examples.

 

That's what it's all about. Build a team that's really good 1-25. Then hope you have a guy or two with a career year, or rent a star, and that's plenty to win it all.

[jackailius]

I have been saying it for a while and I think now is the time to go for it. You play 10 pitchers 4 innings each split between 5 games. You then have a 3 man bullpen. Having an ace is really tough. Keeping one will be even more difficult. You would limit the times a batter sees a pitcher and keep them more off balance if you match up the pitchers correctly- ie a righty to start and a lefty to take the 2nd 4 innings or a flame thrower matched with a soft tosser. 9th would be split between 2 "closers" working every other game for that inning. your last member of the pitching staff would be long relief for extra inning games or if someone gets hurt. By doing this it would hopefully lessen the need to have a staff like the Mets or hit on a year when 3 of your 5 staff are firing on all cylinders all year and don't get hurt.

 

2018 staff

Davies/Hader

Guerra/Woodruff

Lopez/SUter

Ortiz/Scahill

Bickford/Ponce

BP Knebel (CL) Barnes (CL) Cravy (LR)

 

I think with the prospects we have moving forward are very well balanced, smart and versatile. I don't know if we will have another Braun/Fielder combo but the sum of the parts should be strong enough to keep the offense relevant. I think the greatest player on the team may not equal Braun or Fielder but I don't anticipate the floor to be as low as Yuni B in a couple year either.

 

You look at Brinson, Broxton, Phillips/Ray, Villar, Dubon/Diaz, Arcia, Thames/Shaw/Erceg, Susac/Nottingham. Perez as Util. Not everyone has to be a star but not only do we have some that COULD be stars but a good bit of depth at each position so that we should hit on a few being above average and everyone position being very respectable and not having that glaring hole.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

There was a lot of turnover in the scouting department so I'm willing to give the new guys a shot. God knows the draft recently hasn't been pretty until Montgomery took the lead. I hate speaking ill of the dead, but Bruce Seid really screwed us over with constant misses. Who knows were we'd be in the rebuild had he not failed miserably at the one thing a small market has to win with.

 

Dare I say we could get a franchise player from the Intl. market? It's rare for small markets, but I feel like we need to throw A LOT of money this year. The Braves did it and got a possible franchise bat in Maitan.

[MadScientist]

Figure out what is in Bosio's bottle super sauce that turns average to good pitchers into aces.

[MrTPlush]

I'd vote for a true draft in the first round where all non-playoff teams pick out of a hat for the first 20 draft positions. That would end all talk of tanking/perception of tanking

 

Teams don't tank in baseball so throw that theory right out the window. It does not exist period.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

We've had some bad timing with our draft's so far. Not really any top level elite talent that is head and shoulders above the rest. Don't get me wrong, I think Corey Ray will be decent, but he's far from can't miss. This 2017 draft class is dreadful IMO no one really sticks out as that elite, blue chip guy so we should be alright drafting 9th.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I'd vote for a true draft in the first round where all non-playoff teams pick out of a hat for the first 20 draft positions. That would end all talk of tanking/perception of tanking

 

Teams don't tank in baseball so throw that theory right out the window. It does not exist period.

Buster Olney's witch hunt started this, but you could argue what Preller is doing resembles a "tank". He certainly isn't trying to win.

[MrTPlush]

I'd vote for a true draft in the first round where all non-playoff teams pick out of a hat for the first 20 draft positions. That would end all talk of tanking/perception of tanking

 

Teams don't tank in baseball so throw that theory right out the window. It does not exist period.

Buster Olney's witch hunt started this, but you could argue what Preller is doing resembles a "tank". He certainly isn't trying to win.

 

Preller doesn't know how to do anything. If he tried to tank they would probably win 90 games. The whole tanking thing is just not right though. Teams are not getting rid of players or bringing in players hoping to lose. Teams just trade MLB veterans in favor of younger guys who might help them down the road when they hope to be good. This isn't basketball where a team signs a bunch of garbage players and sit good players for unreasonably long amounts of time in games. Basketball is the only sport where teams truly try to lose games.

[MrTPlush]

I don't mean to ruin it buuuuuuut...find another way than drafting Top 5 because that is not going to happen for a long time. We are #9 this year and the team is going to vastly improve moving forward.

[reillymcshane]

I don't mean to ruin it buuuuuuut...find another way than drafting Top 5 because that is not going to happen for a long time. We are #9 this year and the team is going to vastly improve moving forward.

There you go. On the nose.

[pacopete4]

I don't mean to ruin it buuuuuuut...find another way than drafting Top 5 because that is not going to happen for a long time. We are #9 this year and the team is going to vastly improve moving forward.

There you go. On the nose.

 

 

Agreed. Use as many avenues/resources as you can because it'll be a long time before this team is complete trash again and I happily say that.