Dexter Fowler to Cardinals - 5-years, $82M

[reillymcshane]

The Cardinals have added OF Dexter Fowler. The cost was 5-years and $82M, plus a full no-trade clause. Fowler will also cost the Cardinals their 1st round pick in next year's draft.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/cardinals-nearing-deal-free-agent-with-dexter-fowler.html

[Ennder]

I do not mind this one. He is entering the wrong side of 30 with a skillset that I think will fade with age. That is a lot to pay.

[pacopete4]

Good addition for them but glad they are losing that draft choice.

[MillerParkSouth]

Load up on those huge contracts guys.

[ZBTMP]

They SHOULD be losing that 1st round pick anyway. Can MLB defer punishment until the Cardinals chose not to sign a qualifying offer free agent? I guess its all a dream anyway, I'm sure an undisclosed fine will be it in the end.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

[jerichoholicninja]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

 

I think they just go with reverse standings so teams might end up with back to back picks if they lose multiple QO free agents.

[brewcrewdue80]

Just need to point out. And the Cardinals are receivers of Competitive balance when for at least 10 years now they've held a payroll between 7-13th Overall in all of MLB. And I'm pretty sure they've been in top Revenue when I last checked for last 4 seasons. NOT a BOTTOM 15 Organization who needs Competitive Balance help. Can any other Franchise lay claim to getting the Lottery pick while possessing top 15 team payrolls and revenues?

 

How is this not addressed during the CBA?

[MrTPlush]

Competitive balance lottery picks are decided by revenue a team has and their market size. Whether you like it or not St Louis is a very small market and I believe their TV Contract revenue is the 8th lowest or so. I am guessing that holds more weight for deciding who gets a pick because their revenue is something like #8 in all of baseball. I don't get why the Cardinals are getting picks, but according to whatever formula they use they are in the bottom half. I don't think it is such a massive joke like some make it, but I also don't think they should be getting picks.

[JohnBriggs12]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

 

I'd rather have Braun for $80 million over 4. He's still a Brewer right?

[Thurston Fluff]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

 

I'd rather have Braun for $80 million over 4. He's still a Brewer right?

 

It's why I don't think Braun's contract effects his trade value like the conventional wisdom says it will. He is worth his contract and there are people out there looking for a top notch player. If he was a FA he'd get a lot more.

[MrTPlush]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

 

I'd rather have Braun for $80 million over 4. He's still a Brewer right?

 

It's why I don't think Braun's contract effects his trade value like the conventional wisdom says it will. He is worth his contract and there are people out there looking for a top notch player. If he was a FA he'd get a lot more.

 

No, but this hints pretty well it does.

 

https://thegamedayreport.com/2016/08/27/brewers-of-ryan-braun-clears-revocable-waivers/

 

No one wanted Ryan Braun for 4/$72mil. Not a single team in all of MLB took a chance at having Braun for only the contract. Don't give me the "They probably didn't think he would approve a trade or they didn't have room on the payroll." Nonsense. There is no downside to claiming him and a trade not happening. If they wanted Braun they would have found the payroll space too. The biggest sign is the fact the team with the biggest payroll in baseball, money coming out the ears, and showing the most interest in him still wanted the Brewers to take on over $20mil in a dead money contract.

 

There is a whole lot to prove his contract is a problem and nothing that says it isn't.

[MKE81]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

 

I'd rather have Braun for $80 million over 4. He's still a Brewer right?

 

It's why I don't think Braun's contract effects his trade value like the conventional wisdom says it will. He is worth his contract and there are people out there looking for a top notch player. If he was a FA he'd get a lot more.

Completely agree. Players are signing contracts through his age for similar or more money (even if they're 1-2yr deals) and he's an elite offensive player still. His contract can't be a problem even if it's said publicly somewhere along the way.

[MKE81]

No, but this hints pretty well it does.

 

https://thegamedayreport.com/2016/08/27/brewers-of-ryan-braun-clears-revocable-waivers/

 

No one wanted Ryan Braun for 4/$72mil. Not a single team in all of MLB took a chance at having Braun for only the contract. Don't give me the "They probably didn't think he would approve a trade or they didn't have room on the payroll." Nonsense. There is no downside to claiming him and a trade not happening. If they wanted Braun they would have found the payroll space too. The biggest sign is the fact the team with the biggest payroll in baseball, money coming out the ears, and showing the most interest in him still wanted the Brewers to take on over $20mil in a dead money contract.

 

There is a whole lot to prove his contract is a problem and nothing that says it isn't.

A link "hinting" at something proves nothing actually.

 

There are 6 teams Braun is ok going too so why would the vast majority of the others even attempt at going after him? There's no downside to claiming and trying to work out a trade? Yeah, it's called time and resources. How many teams have the financial flexibility and/or the haul in order to make a trade? Now how many of those are the 6 teams he's fine going to? How many teams, other than the Dodgers that would make a play at Braun, are trying to reduce their debt? Injuries? Braun is coming off 3yrs straight of 506+ AB. He's been under that number ONCE his entire career and he was suspended (and injured) that year. He's performed at an AS level every year except 2014. While one can argue he's a cancer given the PED issue, one can also argue he's been a great teammate, team player and leader his entire career.

 

"the biggest sign is the fact the team with the biggest payroll in baseball, money coming out the ears, and showing the most interest in him still wanted the Brewers to take on over 20M in a dead money contract". You mean the team that has to slash a ton of debt? What prospects were the Dodgers giving up (all reports were 2 were involved). IF the Brewers wanted Bellinger + strong prospect then is it far-fetched to believe the Dodgers also wanted 20M of Braun's contract paid for given the talent level they're giving up (Puig, Bellinger, strong prospect)? No, it's not.

 

Ever hear of a "source" trying to create a market for a specific player (ie it'll take a team to take on 20M of Braun's contract in order to trade for him - then nobody does for the reasons above, or more, leaving them with leverage if the Brewers want to make a trade?)

[DuWayne Steurer]

Anyways.........regarding Dexter Fowler, the guy the thread is about.....

 

He's been pretty generally about a 2 to 2.5 WAR player most of his career. Last year seemed to be a pretty big outlier for him. The question is, do you expect him to be a 4 WAR player going forward after age 30 when he hasn't been that up to this point? I really don't.

 

I'm pretty ok with the Cards spending this kind of money for a guy who's generally just a shade above being a league average player moving into his age 31-35 seasons.

[patrickgpe]

Would you rather have Fowler for $82M or Desmond for $70M?

 

I see there is talk about the Cards also signing Trumbo or Encarnacion. How is it determined which team gets the higher comp pick? Are the FA still ranked like CC and Texeria?

would you rather have fowler for 5/82 or Heyward for 8/184 I think is the better question. he Is an elite defender for that contract is going to haunt the cubs. hindsight being 20/20 I am sure the cubs saved their money or gave Fowler a long term deal last offseason.

[DHonks]

Braun passed through waivers, but teams may not have necessarily have wanted to add his contract at that point in the season. Team budgets are set, and you need ownership approval at that point in the year. Teams likely hoped to be able to get the Brewers to eat salary, include prospects, or take bad contracts off their hands. Assuming they knew the asking price, it would have been futile to claim him, given the chance they may have been forced to go over budget.

[MrTPlush]

Braun passed through waivers, but teams may not have necessarily have wanted to add his contract at that point in the season.

 

It was said to be a problem before the trade deadline and it is still said to be a problem now. Both times where teams could have figured something out. Even easier now in the offseason where teams are swimming in money to spend before the season starts. I guess we just have to stick to the theory all that talk is garbage started by a team interested in Braun trying to drive the price down. His contract is a problem and no one wants to pay it. Now there are many reasons why that might be. Could be injuries, age, contract length, time of year, other options on the market, PED history, shear amount of money, no trade clause demanding more money to be stacked on, not wanting to pay in money and prospects. I dont know if I was a comppeting team I would find Ryan Braun pretty attractive. Would I want to pay $20mil a season and give up a Top 50 prospect plus some more? Tough call, but it seems like the answer to that question so far has been no. Only takes one team to swoop in acting desperate though. To be completetly honest that might be the only way the Brewers wants get fulfilled and Braun goes elsewhere.

[monty57]

The Cubs got a little lucky last year when the Orioles decided Fowler was too much of an injury risk, which kind of forced him to go back to Chicago on a one-year deal. Without him, the Schwarber injury would have hurt them a lot more.

 

That said, I don't think this is a good signing. A five year deal to a guy on the wrong side of 30 has a good chance of looking like a really bad contract in a couple of years.

[gregmag]

As a guy who lives in StL, which like a lot of places has a lot of racial tension, I'm very happy the Cards, who are basically a civic religion here, finally signed an African-American player long term. Their dearth of African-American players since 2005 (basically one season of Jason Heyward and two months of Edwin Jackson in 11 years) has been borderline creepy -- hard to explain as accidental or random. I know this doesn't matter as a baseball issue, but I think it's good for the city and the fan base.

 

As a Brewers fan who passionately hates the Cardinals, I love this signing. The guy just had his best season at 30. He doesn't have a standout skill, and he already profiles as mostly having an older player's skill set. He should be in thorough decline right about when the Brewers get good again. Plus losing the draft pick? The Cards can do signings like this all day and I'll be a happy man.

[brewcrewdue80]

Braun passed through waivers, but teams may not have necessarily have wanted to add his contract at that point in the season.

I dont know if I was a comppeting team I would find Ryan Braun pretty attractive. Would I want to pay $20mil a season and give up a Top 50 prospect plus some more?

 

What season is Braun being paid 20million? Hes never being paid 20million in any season. How can it possibly be anyone in this forum not know he's not being paid 20mil in any season? Ive and others have hashed this for over a year now. Go read my cots post in the Braun thread.

 

To the Cardinal lottery response earlier. So the Cardinals are in a bottom 15 "small market" but pay an 8-13th team payroll yearly within the League. And this "small market" produces annually around #8 in Baseball in revenue.

That math doesnt add up. Top 13, top 10. Bottom 15. Competitive seasons are what? 23 of last 25years? (This I dont know and will look up this weekend but how many below .500 seasons in 25years?) I just dont see how this continues to get overlooked by the real bottom 15 market/revenue teams. You know the types that havent had top 13 team payroll and revenue top 10 in baseball the last 10seasons?

[monty57]

What season is Braun being paid 20million? Hes never being paid 20million in any season. How can it possibly be anyone in this forum not know he's not being paid 20mil in any season? Ive and others have hashed this for over a year now. Go read my cots post in the Braun thread.

 

Yes he is. Part of it is deferred, but his salary is $20M for the year. How can it possibly be anyone in this forum not know that :-)

 

From Cots: (sorry if it doesn't look good)

 

Braun, Ryan lf 9.129 CAA Sports 5 yr/$105M (16-20)+21 opt $20,000,000 $20.000 $19.000 $17.000 $4.000

[brewcrewdue80]

What season is Braun being paid 20million? Hes never being paid 20million in any season. How can it possibly be anyone in this forum not know he's not being paid 20mil in any season? Ive and others have hashed this for over a year now. Go read my cots post in the Braun thread.

 

Yes he is. Part of it is deferred, but his salary is $20M for the year. How can it possibly be anyone in this forum not know that :-)

 

From Cots: (sorry if it doesn't look good)

 

Braun, Ryan lf 9.129 CAA Sports 5 yr/$105M (16-20)+21 opt $20,000,000 $20.000 $19.000 $17.000 $4.000

 

 

He was paid 10million signing bonus. Reducing his 5/105 to 5/95 left owed.

[pacopete4]

Can we just call this argument a draw? Or close enough? Or can we state roughly $20 million? I don't know, just anything than beating this dead horse.

[monty57]

Can we just call this argument a draw? Or close enough? Or can we state roughly $20 million? I don't know, just anything than beating this dead horse.

 

I don't really care. I was just messing with bcd80 for the "how can you possibly be on this board and not know..." comment.

 

Regardless of how you want to quantify the deal, any trade involving Braun will very likely involve the Brewers either eating some of his salary or bringing back an unwanted salary in return. To Attanasio, bringing back top end talent is worth more than saving money at this stage of the rebuild.

 

As to who I would rather have, I'd take Braun with his current contract over Fowler with his new contract, but they are different players so it really depends on what a team needs. I do think it's pretty safe to say that Fowler will never be in any MVP talks, and when the careers are over there will be no discussion as to whether Fowler should get into the Hall of Fame or even whether his number will be retired by any team he's played for.