2017 International Signing Thread

[And That]

Brewers bonus pool for new international system is $5.25 million.

 

Best as I can determine, Brewers did not get $5.75 million because they got a pick in the higher competitive balance round (A).

[Mass Haas]

Just a placeholder in case we see this Venezuelan name down the road -- Brewers workout today, other teams have worked him out as well.

 

 

***

 

Several pictures on this page.

[And That]

Ben Badler's first July 2 preview, through the lens of the MLB Showcase beginning tomorrow.

 

The Brewers are tied to a pair of outfielders—switch-hitting Larry Ernesto out of the Dominican Republic and Carlos Rodriguez, a lefty from Venezuela—with expected seven-figure prices.

 

More outfielders!

 

Larry Ernesto:

https://youtu.be/8f4LiUzumC8

 

The Brewers' draft pool is $5.25 million.

[reillymcshane]

I'm pretty excited that the international signings have a cap. It was always just kind of depressing seeing the Yankees or Red Sox or Cubs or whomever sign 10 top guys while we got one or two (if even that).

[LouisEly]

More outfielders!

 

The Brewers' draft pool is $5.25 million.

It's MOAR outfielders - come on, you're supposed to be the resident hipster.

 

Assuming these guys are ~16 years old, they'll be a part of the next wave of OF. Santana will be 24 next season, Brinson will be 23, Ray will be 22, Clark will be 20 (and with a lot to prove), long shot that Harrison makes it at all, so even if these two guys make it guys like Santana/Brinson and maybe even Ray will be approaching free agency by the time they get to the majors and ready to be dealt if they haven't already.

 

That being said, I'd like the Brewers to be linked to some of the catchers, pitchers, and shortstops.

[adambr2]

Isn't there a way to increase your bonus pool up to 50% with trades? I wonder if we've ever considered trying to take that approach in a certain year with a top guy or 2 that we really want to land. Would be nice to outbid the rich teams!

[LouisEly]

Yes, you can trade for international bonus slots. The bonus pool technically has three rounds, and in each round each team has a "slot", and each slot has a value, similar to the draft. But unlike the draft you can trade these slots.

[leitermab07]

With the recent low total team salary and the obvious rebuild we r in, can someone explain to me why we are never in on the top international prospects? Luis Robert is supposed to be the next stud and again we are not considered an option for him.. look at the many of the top young stars or top young prospects and they were bought by the team. Right now the Brewers r lacking that elite top prospect and I think if they were to do what Atlanta/SD did last yr it could put this rebuild over the top, but yr after yr we never spend on a young kid other than Lara, which was 3/4 yrs ago

 

Just off the top of my head here r some recent ones

 

Top prospects, Moncada, Adames, Robles, Espinoza, Maiten, Martes, Devers, Reyes, albies, Torres, Rosario, Vlad jr

 

In pro's , Margot, Odor, Mazara, Bogaerts, Soler, Contreras, Teheran, G. Sanchez, Betencas, Puig, Chapman, Keller, Sano, Martinez (Stl.),

[brewmann04]

there has to be a reason why we can't get a top prospect its going to be intresting with fines to teams now.

[brewcrewdue80]

Well we did get in on Lara in 14. When you have big markets blowing through their allotments you gotta understand 16yr olds and you want to pay 10mil+ for these teens? Lara is yet to make signing #3 rank of '14 a good looking signing. Now we'll have more to spend on a little more level playing ground. With these caps and you take 10teams scouting you and your choices include LA, Chi, Mia, Tex, NY, and Milw I'd imagine theres not much knowledge to these kids about Milwaukee. Parents and family, theres gotta be some geographical influence when say 3 teams want to offer you what your asking for. How have Toronto, Detroit, Minnesota, and Seattle fared with international signings?

[ZBTMP]

I have defended the Brewers in the past assuming their decision to stay within bonus pools was at least recently influenced by not being restricted when the playing fields leveled in the latest CBA. We shall see if it pays dividends. If the Brewers don't have a decent haul close to their allotment this season, I will be disappointed.

Scouting 14 year olds is hard though. And factor in some nefarious trainers in the mix, it gets even more challenging. We shall see what happens with the 6 figure guys they have signed the last couple classes. If I have a criticism at this point; knowing the volatility associated, I wish the Brewers would target pitching more. It seems like every player they are associated with is a position player

 

How have Toronto, Detroit, Minnesota, and Seattle fared with international signings?

Off the top of my head

Robert Osuna, Vlad Jr. have worked out pretty well so far for the Blue Jays

Bruce Rondon, Jose Iglesias maybe; ok the Tigers havent had much success

Obviously Sano and Max Kepler seemed to work out ok for Minnesota.

Seattle got its franchise player in King Felix. Freddy Peralta is probably a better prospect than anything we've signed since Arcia.

Arcia and Wily Peralta (and Miguel Diaz, maybe ) is still something.

[reillymcshane]

With the recent low total team salary and the obvious rebuild we r in, can someone explain to me why we are never in on the top international prospects? Luis Robert is supposed to be the next stud and again we are not considered an option for him.. look at the many of the top young stars or top young prospects and they were bought by the team. Right now the Brewers r lacking that elite top prospect and I think if they were to do what Atlanta/SD did last yr it could put this rebuild over the top, but yr after yr we never spend on a young kid other than Lara, which was 3/4 yrs ago

 

Just off the top of my head here r some recent ones

 

Top prospects, Moncada, Adames, Robles, Espinoza, Maiten, Martes, Devers, Reyes, albies, Torres, Rosario, Vlad jr

 

In pro's , Margot, Odor, Mazara, Bogaerts, Soler, Contreras, Teheran, G. Sanchez, Betencas, Puig, Chapman, Keller, Sano, Martinez (Stl.),

Money is the #1 issue.

 

In the past, other teams were willing to blow past their signing bonus allotment, and incur financial (as well as other) penalties. The Red Sox signed Moncada for $31.5M - and were hit with a $31.5M penalty for doing so (plus they couldn't sign any international amateur free agents for more than 500k over the next two years).

 

Some teams - like the Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox - would spend $20M or more and sign 10-15 guys - a way to replenish their farm system quickly. They'd take the financial penalties and just shrug. I think the Padres did that this past year - just accepting the penalties and stocking up their system.

 

It's basically throwing money at an issue - something the bigger markets could (and did) do.

 

Milwaukee never went over their bonus pool (except by 5% the year they signed Lara). They played by the rules. This was true with the regular draft. For years the club stuck to their slots and rarely signed anyone over slot. They were good boys to the commissioner's office - and the teams with money ignored the issues and penalties and just kept getting better players.

 

Money (and shortsightedness) was also an issue preventing us from establishing a large scouting presence in Latin America. The Brewers were cheap. It takes time and effort and patience to establish relationships with the scouts and trainers and players. The team didn't do that. Other clubs did that, and it has paid off for many of them in the long run.

 

Finally, with regard to this last item - what Latin American kid would have wanted to sign with Milwaukee? If Atlanta or LA or Miami is offering $3M to a top prospect, and we offer the same - the kid is going to go with the club that he has developed a strong relationship - and where he is going to be comfortable.

 

For a long time, Milwaukee was not exactly known as a destination for Latin American players. Look at the Brewer teams from the mid-2000s - such as 2007 or 2008. Not a single hitter who had over 100 ABs was from a Latin American country. We might have 2-3 pitchers who were from a Latin American country - but not rarely position players.

 

A 16-year old kid from the DR or Venezuela or wherever sees that roster, they may not feel comfortable joining the organization when they have other options that seem a better fit for them.

 

The team was like that for years and years. Not exactly a model place for a potential prospect.

 

By the way - compare that to 2016 - Arcia, Santana, Villar, Maldonado, Perez, Flores, Guerra, Peralta, Marinez - and it's a very different story.

 

In the end, I think it was mostly about money. And the previous ownership being cheap and shortsighted. Scouting in the Caribbean and Mexico and Venezuela cost money and time and effort. To heck with that (but Melvin made sure we had Canada covered!).

 

I think that has changed over the last few years, but it's going to take time for the club to establish those relationships with the scouts and trainers who - in turn - have developed relationships with the top young players.

[brewcrewdue80]

I have defended the Brewers in the past assuming their decision to stay within bonus pools was at least recently influenced by not being restricted when the playing fields leveled in the latest CBA. We shall see if it pays dividends. If the Brewers don't have a decent haul close to their allotment this season, I will be disappointed.

Scouting 14 year olds is hard though. And factor in some nefarious trainers in the mix, it gets even more challenging. We shall see what happens with the 6 figure guys they have signed the last couple classes. If I have a criticism at this point; knowing the volatility associated, I wish the Brewers would target pitching more. It seems like every player they are associated with is a position player

 

How have Toronto, Detroit, Minnesota, and Seattle fared with international signings?

Off the top of my head

Robert Osuna, Vlad Jr. have worked out pretty well so far for the Blue Jays

Bruce Rondon, Jose Iglesias maybe; ok the Tigers havent had much success

Obviously Sano and Max Kepler seemed to work out ok for Minnesota.

Seattle got its franchise player in King Felix. Freddy Peralta is probably a better prospect than anything we've signed since Arcia.

Arcia and Wily Peralta (and Miguel Diaz, maybe ) is still something.

 

So essentially an equal amount of talent acquired by the 5 teams. 2 each per team, and oh adding Diaz means we've got 3 to lay claim to or more than those teams.

Sano and Kepler I'm reading both signed in 2009. Sano happened to lose a higher payday due to suggestions that he was older than 16 and a deal with Pittsburgh deteriorated.

Vlad Jr is just beginning his 18yr. old season. You want to qualify him, then Lara, Pierre, and Mallen need to be added as successful International signings for Milwaukee.

 

Maybe I'll delve in to this deeper and come up with something else to post. But I think Texas began the ignoring Limits some years back, and it became a free-for all when it was noticed how well it worked for their system. Just go ahead and blow 30+million on under 18year-olds.

[ZBTMP]

Vlad Jr is just beginning his 18yr. old season. You want to qualify him, then Lara, Pierre, and Mallen need to be added as successful International signings for Milwaukee.

 

Not even disagreeing with your original point that there is handful of higher revenue teams dominate the success with international amateurs, just answering the original questions. However, Vlad Jr. is the composite #38 prospect in baseball which fangraphs has put a value of 38 million on; Lara, Pierre, and Mallen aren't in the same discussion.

[leitermab07]

I def understand that bigger market teams can afford these and being in south helps, but with the Brewers low payroll wouldn't this be the time to spend some money on some young international teens? I mean, if they can't do it now with a a low payroll, then they never will be able to, because I don't see this payroll getting any smaller than what it is

[ZBTMP]

I def understand that bigger market teams can afford these and being in south helps, but with the Brewers low payroll wouldn't this be the time to spend some money on some young international teens? I mean, if they can't do it now with a a low payroll, then they never will be able to, because I don't see this payroll getting any smaller than what it is

 

The new CBA's bonus pool caps are hard so it is no longer an option.

[leitermab07]

So with this, it will be nearly impossible to get top international players to come to MKE then, because if they are all going to get paid the same, then they will just decide the Southern teams most likely... Padres and Atlanta spent a s&^t ton of money last yr and now they are both looking to again get the top stud in Robert Luis, while Brewers are fiddling their thumbs hoping to get any international player to sign.. Just puts even more pressure and demand on management to hit on trades and drafts. Its a shame this organization was (what it seems like) 10 years behind the trend on international signings and while we were trading all our prospects for Grienke, Sabathia and others we were miserable in every draft and letting a lot of the top budding stars today, go through the cracks because of their incompetence of knowing the international market.. A shame..

[brewcrewdue80]

So with this, it will be nearly impossible to get top international players to come to MKE then, because if they are all going to get paid the same, then they will just decide the Southern teams most likely... Padres and Atlanta spent a s&^t ton of money last yr and now they are both looking to again get the top stud in Robert Luis, while Brewers are fiddling their thumbs hoping to get any international player to sign.. Just puts even more pressure and demand on management to hit on trades and drafts. Its a shame this organization was (what it seems like) 10 years behind the trend on international signings and while we were trading all our prospects for Grienke, Sabathia and others we were miserable in every draft and letting a lot of the top budding stars today, go through the cracks because of their incompetence of knowing the international market.. A shame..

 

W/o quoting your prior comment responding on low payroll so to spend more. We've put an assumption that some of those savings on payroll is what allowed and provided the funding for the food upgrade experience.

 

As to Padres and Atlanta i dont believe they could be tied to a top stud as multiple penalized teams are limited to only 300k maximum sign for this year. The teams that were penalized for 2016 are also penalized for 2018.

 

If youre a top stud, you wouldnt take 300k when teams could offer from 4.75million up to 10million if the 5.75mil teams traded for that 75% from other teams' slots. It'll be fascinating how Milw does since they'll have 5.25 or 5.75mil allotted to them, which is more than the around 3mil allotted the year they signed Lara. I think theres something like 14teams on penalty this year for300k limit. You'd assume Milw can land a top 10 ranked with their money and other teams penalties. If not 2......

 

(Maybe they'll sit back and Otani comes available to sign for this period, but not til months after July's draft.)

[ZBTMP]

So with this, it will be nearly impossible to get top international players to come to MKE then, because if they are all going to get paid the same, then they will just decide the Southern teams most likely... Padres and Atlanta spent a s&^t ton of money last yr and now they are both looking to again get the top stud in Robert Luis, while Brewers are fiddling their thumbs hoping to get any international player to sign..

 

With the new CBA the Brewers will have a larger bonus pool than large market teams (except for Arizona who despite a 9 figure annual TV contract and the 13th largest media market are eligible for the same competitive balance compensation as us ) so theoretically they can offer a larger bonus. I doubt international free agents care too much about a geographic location as they do $ and relationship with them and their trainer.

 

With 11 teams restricted and a larger bonus pool, the hope is the Brewers have a nice haul this signing period. If they don't, you should be disappointed.

 

There is no guarantee Luis Robert will be declared a free agent before the next international signing period, but the 7 figure OF talents that the Brewers are already linked to in the next period may be a better use of resources anyway.

[mattyo]

Adam McCalvy‏

@AdamMcCalvy

Per @BenBadler report, Brewers get $885,300 to spend on int'l talent in exchange for Damien Magnifico. That's the value of slot No. 15.

 

This seems to suggest we will be more aggressive in the international market this summer, no?

[LouisEly]

Is there anyone still out there that the Brewers can use this $885K on? It is for this period only, not next period.

[reillymcshane]

Adam McCalvy‏

@AdamMcCalvy

Per @BenBadler report, Brewers get $885,300 to spend on int'l talent in exchange for Damien Magnifico. That's the value of slot No. 15.

 

The more I look at this, the more curious this acquisition becomes because we have to use this by June 15.

 

First thing, most of the major international players have already signed. As someone noted, are there really that many quality prospects still available during this signing period? Perhaps there are - I just don't know the rules of who becomes eligible and when.

 

I do know that some guys become available at odd times - specifically the Cuban players who have had to take up residency in another country. It just takes time for them to get their residency, and then MLB to recognize them. Luis Robert is probably the most talented of these players. He's hoping to be cleared by June 15 by MLB to sign - thus he won't be subject to the new international spending limits.

 

However, he'll get a ton of money if he's declared a FA prior to June 15. Thus, it's likely that a team like San Diego - which has already committed $70-80M during the past year to international players - will just bite the bullet, give him $10M or $15M or whatever - and take the penalty. The extra $885,300 isn't going to land us a guy like Robert.

 

Again, are there other quality players that just haven't signed? And if there are, is the $885,300 really going to get them?

 

Again, let's say there is an international player or two the we really like. Why isn't a team like the Padres (or whoever) just outbid us? I mean, they've blown through $80M - why not $85M at this point?

 

So I'm not sure what the $885,300 does for us. Maybe it just allows us to add a bunch of lower ranked guys - but again, who are these players? If they were that good, why haven't they already signed? My only guess is that some players just emerge over the course of the past year, and we can use the money to try and get a few of them. I'm assuming we have a plan of some kind - so it will be interesting to see what we do.

 

It would have been nice if this had been for the next signing period - but such is life.

[Jose Cardenal1]

Is there any reason why the two deals with Baltimore were separated in the first place? I could see this slot money not being used and the trades end up being Magnifico for Drake (no PTBN or cash exchanged).

[brewerfan82]

Luis Robert is now a free agent. Is this where we take advantage of our extra bonus pool money?

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/04/luis-robert-declared-a-free-agent.html

[And That]

Robert is probably going to get a lot more money than the Brewers have bonus pool room. One of the teams already way over the cap are the most likely, because they can't be penalized any more in terms of limitations on what they can do next signing period.