Trading Arcia

[pacopete4]

I'll start it. With the trade for Dubon and already having Diaz could we possible unload Arcia for even more this offseason? I'm not sure I'm advocating for it but it sure is interesting. It's not like Villar/Perez couldn't fill the gap at SS for the time being.

 

What would a prospect like Arcia get in a return? Interesting to think about.

[MrTPlush]

Unless you are going to get an elite prospect back it doesn't make any sense. So unless that phantom 1 for 1 trade people always like to think about has the opportunity to happen Arcia is not moving. We are at least a year from having a middle infield problem.

[pacopete4]

Brewers Get: Bellinger, De Leon, Calhoun, McCarthy, Puig

Dodgers Get: Arcia(fits at 2B), Braun

[FVBrewerFan]

One of those trades that's really tough because of perceived value. Not sure any team would be willing to give up a huge return for him, since the jury is still out whether his bat can stick. And from the Brewers perspective, they want to find out. Just real tough to get a deal like that done.

 

And IF a trade like that would happen, it wouldn't have anything to do with Durbin, Diaz, Lara, or anyone else. You make that trade because of the value you get back. You don't make a trade based on anything an A ball player is doing.

[MrTPlush]

Brewers Get: Bellinger, De Leon, Calhoun, McCarthy, Puig

Dodgers Get: Arcia(fits at 2B), Braun

 

I feel they would just be better off sticking Calhoun at 2B so I am not really sure Arcia is a fit with the Dodgers.

[NievesNoNO]

One of those trades that's really tough because of perceived value. Not sure any team would be willing to give up a huge return for him, since the jury is still out whether his bat can stick. And from the Brewers perspective, they want to find out. Just real tough to get a deal like that done.

 

And IF a trade like that would happen, it wouldn't have anything to do with Durbin, Diaz, Lara, or anyone else. You make that trade because of the value you get back. You don't make a trade based on anything an A ball player is doing.

 

 

Agreed. SS is not the black hole it was a few years back on rosters either. He hasn't really proven anything with his bat yet. Is he closer to Iglesias or closer to Lindor?

[Boomer5]

He is one of those guys you'd trade to land a key veteran piece back. We arent in that spot obviously.

 

Id keep him at SS all 2017 and see what we have.

[Eye Black]

Brewers Get: Bellinger, De Leon, Calhoun, McCarthy, Puig

Dodgers Get: Arcia(fits at 2B), Braun

 

I feel they would just be better off sticking Calhoun at 2B so I am not really sure Arcia is a fit with the Dodgers.

They would be on opposite ends of the defensive spectrum, but Calhoun's bat may overcome that liability.

[MrTPlush]

Brewers Get: Bellinger, De Leon, Calhoun, McCarthy, Puig

Dodgers Get: Arcia(fits at 2B), Braun

 

I feel they would just be better off sticking Calhoun at 2B so I am not really sure Arcia is a fit with the Dodgers.

They would be on opposite ends of the defensive spectrum, but Calhoun's bat may overcome that liability.

 

Better than giving up De Leon, Bellinger, and Calhoun for a player with a questionable bat(yes I realize Braun is apart of the trade).

[brewcrewdue80]

Amazes me how in 55games played, Arcia is already being pushed aside and warranting trade suggestions because of his Offense. One that occurred at age 21 turned 22. When guys like Lewis Brinson and Corey Ray are yet to see ML action while older. You know who he can probably be a comparable to? Elvis Andrus only with more Range than Elvis. Who's subpar bat has accumulated 24WAR. I'm thinking Arcia starting in the same kind of Andrus prospect has 10% higher ability offensively as well as defensively. Makes him 5WAR without any breakout. And there is some breakout potential having more power to start= deep flyball outs for Andrus-HR for Arcia. And respecting some more power=deeper playing OF allowing for more hits to drop in than Andrus' defense. I'm telling you he's special and going to be one of Milw's all-time best if he gets his career playing here.

You don't want to trade that away over him .745 OPS vs. .815 in next 6years.

[CheezWizHed]

I'm guessing people are talking about trading him because of value (and bigger returns) instead of wanting him gone.

 

I think he will be one of the future faces of the franchise and won't be traded anytime soon.

[adambr2]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is throwing up their arms and saying 'Arcia can't hit, trade the bum.' It's all about maximizing value within your organization. Now I think this offseason is too early for something like this, but suppose a year from now, Dubon spent a whole year raking in AAA with top notch D at short, and is now a top 40 MLB prospect, and the trade market for Arcia is strong. Well, then that's a conversation you have to at least have.

 

It's just the way of life in MLB, especially for a small market team. Frequent turnover is necessary. Opportunities unexpectedly present themselves. You have to be at least open to anything at any time, and from Stearns' comments, he is.

 

We've had 2 what you could call 'franchise shortstops' before Arcia in Milwaukee in the last 10 years, Hardy and Escobar. Both were traded. And I don't think either was traded because they weren't wanted anymore, and I also bet we don't regret trading either.

[MKE81]

I wouldn't even think about trading Arcia until you know what he, Dubon and Diaz will become

[homer]

I wouldn't even think about trading Arcia until you know what he, Dubon and Diaz will become

 

 

Completely agree. Kind of fun to talk about what you could get for him though.

[jerichoholicninja]

I wouldn't even think about trading Arcia until you know what he, Dubon and Diaz will become

 

And if all 3 bomb then we're left with nothing. I'm not saying trade any of them now but you can't just wait until players become whatever it is they are going to become before you consider trading them. Imagine if we would have taken that same approach with Brett Lawrie? Your own personal opinions about whether or not Marcum was worth it at the time aside, he's turned out to be an average at best player. The last time he was traded was for scraps.

[adambr2]

Yeah, I mean it's all situation dependent. I'm not advocating shopping Arcia, but I think you have to keep an open mind to everything at all times. What if the White Sox offered Quintana for Arcia? I'm not saying they would and I'm not necessarily even saying we should do that, but I sure wouldn't shoot it down without some real careful consideration.

 

Everyone should always be considered tradeable, you never know what opportunities will arise. I'm sure we weren't openly looking at trading a prospect last year (Cy Sneed), but we did and we ended up getting a pretty good young player.

[FVBrewerFan]

Great example. I think that's what most of us are saying. If someone offers a young, controllable, really special SP for Arcia, you don't hang up the phone.

[brewcrewdue80]

I wouldn't even think about trading Arcia until you know what he, Dubon and Diaz will become

 

And if all 3 bomb then we're left with nothing. I'm not saying trade any of them now but you can't just wait until players become whatever it is they are going to become before you consider trading them. Imagine if we would have taken that same approach with Brett Lawrie? Your own personal opinions about whether or not Marcum was worth it at the time aside, he's turned out to be an average at best player. The last time he was traded was for scraps.

 

Except Lawrie was more valuable that first year of Marcum with Milwaukee, which could have lead to a higher return that next offseason for someone better than Marcum.

 

Yeah, I mean it's all situation dependent. I'm not advocating shopping Arcia, but I think you have to keep an open mind to everything at all times. What if the White Sox offered Quintana for Arcia?

 

Based on the ask from Houston, Chicago would have said Arcia, Hader, and Ortiz for Quintana.

 

My issue with trading Arcia the most is his Defense is Gold Glove future at SS. As well as being 22 for most of 2017 at 6'0 and 165lbs. There is a lot of growth potential in filling out and aging for him. Elvis Andrus who I compared Arcia to is also 6'0 but at 200lbs. Arcia adds a little muscle weight, becomes stronger with the bat while still remaining athletic in fielding, you're just selling way too low on his type of potential. It'd be different if his defense was just a little above average, or he was already near that 200lb weight for his height.

 

His defensive ability will Always be desired by some team regardless how his bat plays. Even Brendan Ryan had years of 4WAR with a bat that was below .650OPS Andrelton Simmons can't bat .700OPS but averages 4+WAR a year.

 

Dubon hasn't posted anything that alerts exceeding Arcia offensively. Not when defensively I don't read him being better in that area.

 

I just see it as. 100% Arcia value today. Performs below .700 OPS next season. 90% Arcia value today. Performs above .700 OPS 110% value. Above .750 OPS 175% value. .800 or higher OPS 250% value to today.

 

His floor barely reduces any of his current value. Meanwhile it can skyrocket with modest raise in his floor.

[MKE81]

I wouldn't even think about trading Arcia until you know what he, Dubon and Diaz will become

 

And if all 3 bomb then we're left with nothing. I'm not saying trade any of them now but you can't just wait until players become whatever it is they are going to become before you consider trading them. Imagine if we would have taken that same approach with Brett Lawrie? Your own personal opinions about whether or not Marcum was worth it at the time aside, he's turned out to be an average at best player. The last time he was traded was for scraps.

What if all 3 succeed? I'm not trading away that caliber of talent at an insanely young age just because I'm scared of the future. Especially when Arcia's defense is elite (or will be) at a premium position combined with the status of our org. I'd listen to every offer at all times for any player but there will come a time when you have a feel for what you think that player will become and then you make a decision. Every player is different - Dubon is older than Arcia and Diaz is 1.5yrs younger I think and Arcia is well more advanced than both of them. Arcia is just too young to even think about trading right now even if there might be a win/win offer on the table

[anglotiger]

Except Lawrie was more valuable that first year of Marcum with Milwaukee, which could have lead to a higher return that next offseason for someone better than Marcum.

 

I might be misunderstanding your point here (and I apologize if I am) but, without Marcum's performance through the first week of September, the Brewers may not have made the playoffs at all that year. Yes, I paid to see the debacle that was his start against the Cardinals in the championship series but he was a major factor in them being there in the first place. Given how Lawrie's career has progressed, I don't regret that trade at all.

 

What do you mean by "more valuable"?

 

Edit: I see that you mean he might have returned more after his successful (and apparently misleading) cameo in Toronto, but the Brewers got what they wanted - and if they hadn't made the trade they probably wouldn't have wanted to trade him and would have held onto him for too long and gotten even less.

[Austin Tatious]

I like Arcia's quickness with the bat. I think in good time, he will settle down and be a solid hitter. IMO he will generate bat speed and be a nice all-around ss. I also like Dubon. If Arcia's hitting does not emerge, then Dubon is a nice hedge to have. I've seen Dubon play and think he can handle the bat.

 

Plus, heaven forbid that Arcia gets hurt, then you've got Dubon as a potentially effective option.

 

I'd keep them both and let it play out. Right now, the team is trying to acquire as much high end talent and both of these guys are the type of guys we are accumulating.

 

The caveat is if you get an eye popping offer. You would think it would have to blow Stearns away to even consider it.

[brewcrewdue80]

Except Lawrie was more valuable that first year of Marcum with Milwaukee, which could have lead to a higher return that next offseason for someone better than Marcum.

 

I might be misunderstanding your point here (and I apologize if I am) but, without Marcum's performance through the first week of September, the Brewers may not have made the playoffs at all that year. Yes, I paid to see the debacle that was his start against the Cardinals in the championship series but he was a major factor in them being there in the first place. Given how Lawrie's career has progressed, I don't regret that trade at all.

 

What do you mean by "more valuable"?

 

Edit: I see that you mean he might have returned more after his successful (and apparently misleading) cameo in Toronto, but the Brewers got what they wanted - and if they hadn't made the trade they probably wouldn't have wanted to trade him and would have held onto him for too long and gotten even less.

 

2011 included a Casey Mcgeehee playing 3b to a neg 2.7WAR. Something Milw could have remedied immediately by playing Lawrie at 3b. Now who pitched besides Marcum and the difference in value is another story.