Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??

[NievesNoNO]

I think Garza most definitely has value going to next season. No, it's not significant and I agree that he'll only bring back a very limited return but if they wanted I have 0 doubt that a team would give something in the range of their 20-30 best prospect back.

 

You can do all the WAR and surplus value calcs you want but even 160 innings of 4.25 ERA ball has value. I mean, go and check out the depth charts and most team's 4-5 starters aren't very good and many of them are downright horrendous when all the numbers are compiled at the end of the year.

 

I'd trade him for whatever they can get in the off-season, as the Brewers have guys that really should be able to fill that #5 spot in the rotation next season. I'd have to think there are plenty of teams not in that situation and would love to pay $5 mil for Garza to round out their starting 5.

[rcc]

Trade for whatever they can get. I don't think he is much of an asset especially after last night.

[KeithStone53151]

I think Garza most definitely has value going to next season. No, it's not significant and I agree that he'll only bring back a very limited return but if they wanted I have 0 doubt that a team would give something in the range of their 20-30 best prospect back.

 

You can do all the WAR and surplus value calcs you want but even 160 innings of 4.25 ERA ball has value. I mean, go and check out the depth charts and most team's 4-5 starters aren't very good and many of them are downright horrendous when all the numbers are compiled at the end of the year.

 

I'd trade him for whatever they can get in the off-season, as the Brewers have guys that really should be able to fill that #5 spot in the rotation next season. I'd have to think there are plenty of teams not in that situation and would love to pay $5 mil for Garza to round out their starting 5.

 

I think the market will be limited for Garza. It's going to have to be an at least decent team with a bad GM and no decent in house options. The Orioles and Angels come to mind immediately, a couple others may fit that mold. I assume Stearns will do his research and ideally would have a trade lined up before even exercising the option. Just remember how long it took for Fister to find work this season...and his peak was better than Garza's peak AND his prior 2 years weren't nearly as bad as Garza's prior 2.

[tmwiese55]

That's just it, you're not going to get anything for him so why not just keep him around for whatever is needed out of him next year. I bet he'd end up pitching 100+ innings, probably will end up about the amount of innings as he did this year. And it wouldn't be like we're forcing it like in the past.

[rcc]

But why keep him around when he is capable of such a terrible game like last night. And for $5 million when someone from the system would probably be better.

 

It makes no sense to me to keep him.

[MrTPlush]

But why keep him around when he is capable of such a terrible game like last night. And for $5 million when someone from the system would probably be better.

 

It makes no sense to me to keep him.

 

Better dump Zach Davies and Brent Suter and anyone else in existence. Everyone has bad games.

[tmwiese55]

I can't believe that even needed to be said. Just a few weeks ago Scherzer gave up 5 runs, and I think 3 HRs in the first inning. Check out Kershaw's playoff history, plus he gave up 6 runs a month or so back. So, I think a guy that's only supposed to be a 4 or 5 starter should be expected to have a game like that here and there.

[rcc]

Everyone has bad games but Garza isn't Chris Sale or Kershaw either. If they have bad games, it's a bad game. If Garza has a bad game, it's another one.

[tmwiese55]

Well that's not what was said. And yea, that's what being a 4 or 5 starter is, it's what you expect to happen every once in awhile. I do a fair amount of fantasy baseball and if you really pay attention you'd be surprised how often games like that happen from guys who are supposed to be much better than Garza. It's just part of the game of baseball over such a long season.

 

For it making 'no sense' to keep him, you don't have to look further than the current season. What would they have done without him this year with all the issues and injuries? Does that mean it 'makes no sense' to let him go? No, of course not. It means it could easily be argued either way and either decision is in the realm of logic, can't blast the GM either way. It's a close call and he's entrusted in making that decision. Not us.

[rcc]

Well to that logic just because the pitcher isn't a $20-30 million dollar ace then it is okay if he only pitches 3 or 4 innings and gets shelled because he is only a 4th or 5th starter.

 

Granted Garza has his fans. I happen not to be one.

 

When Garza pitches I have low expectations. When every other starter pitches I expect a well pitched game.

[tmwiese55]

I'm not either. But man you started this by saying anyone capable of a game like that should be let go, when literally anyone is capable of that, And I don't know what to tell you about your expectations for 4 and 5 starters if you don't think they're going to get beat up every once in a while. I guess just look around the league a little more and see what the reality is.

[LouisEly]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

[KeithStone53151]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

 

Hahahaha I liked this. It's absolutely possible that his primary goal here is to boost his stock by adding the "positive clubhouse influence" accolade to his resume. If the Brewers get hot starting this weekend, how much credit might go to Garza? I personally don't think that's the case. I think the year he got punted from the rotation and refused a bullpen assignment that his attitude was at an all time low, but he came back to spring training refreshed and has been very positive and a good influence in general ever since. I've noticed him paying attention to the games he's not pitching and calling things out to players on the field, whereas it would sure be easy to sit in the back of the dugout and relax with other SP's.

 

Regardless of his intentions. If the pep talk helps, that's fantastic pretty much all around. First and foremost, the brewers playing better helps now. If Garza gets tabbed as a leader/good clubhouse presence, that certainly would help us get value in a trade and expand the number of teams that might be interested. Maybe a team in a total rebuild like the padres would benefit from a bit of stability/veteran leadership in a SP role for a year.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Hopefully Garza goes 6-0 the remainder of the season, his pep talk results in a Brewer turn around and he dominates in 2018 in a Brewer uniform. Realistically, he is an aging pitcher with declining velocity and endurance (D.L. stints, short starts). I fear his contract will be the second worst on the team in 2018 (besides Thames).

[brewerfan82]

Hopefully Garza goes 6-0 the remainder of the season, his pep talk results in a Brewer turn around and he dominates in 2018 in a Brewer uniform. Realistically, he is an aging pitcher with declining velocity and endurance (D.L. stints, short starts). I fear his contract will be the second worst on the team in 2018 (besides Thames).

Ha, considering only 3 players are getting paid post-arby figures next year (Braun $20m, Thames $5m, and Garza $5m) I guess that's syntactically possible since there's really only the 3 possibilities, but when you're talking about a couple productive players (a hitter with an .870 OPS and a pitcher with a league average 4.34 ERA) making only $5m each it's hard to really call either a bad contract. Even if they don't play an inning, that's not much of a hit to absorb. The only one that has potential to be bad is Braun's at $20m and even that one is hard to complain about considering it's not blocking any other moves from happening.

[brewmann04]

They should just pick up his option

[TURBO]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

 

Why is that in blue? It's true...

[Humans Need Water]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

 

Why is that in blue? It's true...

So he's forever a dick because 2yrs ago at 31 and forever being a solid starter believing he's still talented he refused to go to the bullpen and because even longer ago he tweeted about some player's wife?

 

The past 2yrs have you ever heard any stories or rumors about Garza being an selfish mofo/bad teammate? Doesn't seem like he's a clubhouse cancer

[Humans Need Water]

Digging into the numbers....

2014 - on par with career norms

2015 - terrible across the board, injuries

 

2016 - had injuries and everyone says he was terrible except he wasn't

19 starts - 1.505 whip, 10.4 H9, 3.2 BB9, 6.2 K9, 4.51 ERA (overall)

16 starts - 1.371 whip, 9.2 H9, 3.1 BB9, 6.2 K9, 3.41 ERA

*not sure how 3 starts trumps 16 starts last year

 

2017 - piggybacked off what he did last year in those 16 starts

17 starts - 1.314 whip, 9.0 H9, 2.9 BB9, 6.2 K9, 4.34 ERA (overall)

16 starts - 1.250 whip, 8.49 H9, 2.76 BB9, 6.14 K9, 3.68 ERA (if given the 100 pitch threshold he'd have two 7 innings starts and 11-12 starts of 6+ innings.....he's averaging 5.2ip over those 16 starts as is. Gray and Quintana are averaging 6 innings outside of their 7-8 run starts)

 

Never would expect a back-end starter to have some bad starts on the season!!! His option is getting picked up and there will be more than a couple teams that will take on a 1yr, 5M solid back-end starter for a couple lottery tickets. Depending on what Stearns does with the rotation in the offseason he could potentially still be the #5 here but I don't think that's likely.

[dacbrewers]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

 

Why is that in blue? It's true...

So he's forever a dick because 2yrs ago at 31 and forever being a solid starter believing he's still talented he refused to go to the bullpen and because even longer ago he tweeted about some player's wife?

 

The past 2yrs have you ever heard any stories or rumors about Garza being an selfish mofo/bad teammate? Doesn't seem like he's a clubhouse cancer

 

The fact that he wouldn't go to the pen pretty much sums it up. He gets paid either way. I have way more respect for Kyle Lohse, who actually did go into the pen when asked. It should be about what's best for the team.

[TURBO]

[sarcasm]Remember, Garza is a selfish jerk who thinks only of himself. That makes him a bad baseball player, deems his stats relative to other players irrelevant, and explains why he led a team meeting last night to give the young players a pep talk.[/sarcasm]

 

Why is that in blue? It's true...

So he's forever a dick because 2yrs ago at 31 and forever being a solid starter believing he's still talented he refused to go to the bullpen and because even longer ago he tweeted about some player's wife?

 

The past 2yrs have you ever heard any stories or rumors about Garza being an selfish mofo/bad teammate? Doesn't seem like he's a clubhouse cancer

 

His not going to the pen was an anti team, me first temper tantrum. So yes, he is forever a dick. I lost all respect for him at that point. The reason he was asked to go to the pen was because he was doing nothing to help the team, he was stinking up the joint with every start, so they wanted to make a change, and he refused. Didn't he just not play again that season after that? Hard to come back from that in the eyes of a Brewer fan, but it appears that a lot of people have forgiven him... I am not one of those people.

[MrTPlush]

So people hate Garza for that reason, but those same people probably love Braun. Seems logical.

[OnTheBlack]

His not going to the pen was an anti team, me first temper tantrum. So yes, he is forever a dick. I lost all respect for him at that point. The reason he was asked to go to the pen was because he was doing nothing to help the team, he was stinking up the joint with every start, so they wanted to make a change, and he refused. Didn't he just not play again that season after that? Hard to come back from that in the eyes of a Brewer fan, but it appears that a lot of people have forgiven him... I am not one of those people.

 

 

The list of people you must just have pure disdain for must be a mile long. If a guy is "forever a dick" and cannot be redeemed because he refused to go to the pen, then frankly the problem is you and not him at THIS point. If you're unable to move past what all of his teammates and what the rest of the organization has...maybe you have a little bit of trouble moving past people's mistakes. Along those same lines, I would imagine you've never done anything you would regret.

 

I'm pretty much indifferent to Garza. I generally expect him to be a guy who keeps us in games, but he's obviously changed and grown into a new type of pitcher. As for him being removed from the BP, the response he had to being asked to move to the pen is the result of the same attitude that people love from him when he was coming up. He's extremely competitive and extremely intense. Well, the Brewers demoted him and he acted foolishly. To essentially say regardless of what he does moving forward your opinion of him won't change is as foolish to me as the comment about getting rid of someone who's capable of having such a bad game.

 

Either way, as it stands now, they'll pick up the option. And it doesn't take a "bad GM" or a "stupid team" to want a cheap, veteran 5th starter. It simply takes a team like the Dodgers, Yankees, someone along those lines who can afford the luxury of a 5th, 6th or even 7th pitcher on a cheap 1 year deal.

[OnTheBlack]

Hopefully Garza goes 6-0 the remainder of the season, his pep talk results in a Brewer turn around and he dominates in 2018 in a Brewer uniform. Realistically, he is an aging pitcher with declining velocity and endurance (D.L. stints, short starts). I fear his contract will be the second worst on the team in 2018 (besides Thames).

 

 

I'm still waiting a player who's NOT aging. Like a Clayton Kershaw type who just stays 27 years old his entire career until his arm falls off.

 

Seriously though, all those things are true. What's also true. 5 million for a back of the rotation pitcher isn't very expensive. Especially when you're only committed to one single year.

[clancyphile]

Hopefully Garza goes 6-0 the remainder of the season, his pep talk results in a Brewer turn around and he dominates in 2018 in a Brewer uniform. Realistically, he is an aging pitcher with declining velocity and endurance (D.L. stints, short starts). I fear his contract will be the second worst on the team in 2018 (besides Thames).

 

 

I'm still waiting a player who's NOT aging. Like a Clayton Kershaw type who just stays 27 years old his entire career until his arm falls off.

 

Seriously though, all those things are true. What's also true. 5 million for a back of the rotation pitcher isn't very expensive. Especially when you're only committed to one single year.

 

Only way they come cheaper is if you've developed them or traded for them while they are in the minors...

 

Which kinda describes Davies, Suter, Woodruff... y'know, three-fifths of the current Brewers rotation.