Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??

[MrTPlush]

Why are we dumping Garza again? Is there some unicorn out there to fill the #5 slot in the rotation that i'm unaware of?

 

He is older and only has one year left is why one would trade him. Give Woodruff the #5 spot. That is all fine and dandy if that is your thought process there, but flat out declining the option makes little sense.

 

Calling him a #6 or #7 on a good team seems hard to believe. I bet there are some contenders RIGHT now that would take him as their #5 possibly even a #4. In the offseason at least half of baseball would be interested in Garza at $5mil. That doesn't necessarily equate to a giant bidding war, but the interest would be there to trade him quite easily

[superfly]

Why are we dumping Garza again? Is there some unicorn out there to fill the #5 slot in the rotation that i'm unaware of?

 

He is older and only has one year left is why one would trade him. Give Woodruff the #5 spot. That is all fine and dandy if that is your thought process there, but flat out declining the option makes little sense.

 

Calling him a #6 or #7 on a good team seems hard to believe. I bet there are some contenders RIGHT now that would take him as their #5 possibly even a #4. In the offseason at least half of baseball would be interested in Garza at $5mil. That doesn't necessarily equate to a giant bidding war, but the interest would be there to trade him quite easily

 

IMO Woodruff shouldn't be "given" anything until he proves it. Suter also has a very limited sample and i'm skeptical due to his lack of velocity and need to be perfect. At only 5 million i'd prefer we keep the "grizzled" veteran around as a back end starter unless we're blown away by an offer.

[Humans Need Water]

Pick up the $5mil option and trade him for a low-A boom-or-bust prospect if nothing else. Somebody will want him for $5mil.

 

Maybe, maybe not. San Diego cornered the market on low level FA last year and got 3 guys all for $1.75 million, Richard, Cahill and Chacin. For a good team Garza would be a depth guy and come to camp as a 6th or 7th starter. They won't pay $5 million for a depth piece. A rebuilding team like the White Sox could take a flier and hope to recoup some value though they might prefer to sign some guys to minor league deals or for under $3 million.

 

The Brewers will likely have Nelson, Davies, Anderson as the big 3. They need room for their guys knocking on the door in their system. I don't think they'll pick up his option.

Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all.

 

There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract.

[Humans Need Water]

IMO Woodruff shouldn't be "given" anything until he proves it. Suter also has a very limited sample and i'm skeptical due to his lack of velocity and need to be perfect. At only 5 million i'd prefer we keep the "grizzled" veteran around as a back end starter unless we're blown away by an offer.

How exactly can he prove it without being given the rotation spot? His stuff, control, mentality, success the past 2yrs deem him more then worthy of a rotation spot. He's going to be given a spot. That means he's being given an opportunity to succeed. Whether he keeps it for years down the road is up to him but he's going to be given a spot.

[OnaBadger58]

IMO Woodruff shouldn't be "given" anything until he proves it. Suter also has a very limited sample and i'm skeptical due to his lack of velocity and need to be perfect. At only 5 million i'd prefer we keep the "grizzled" veteran around as a back end starter unless we're blown away by an offer.

How exactly can he prove it without being given the rotation spot? His stuff, control, mentality, success the past 2yrs deem him more then worthy of a rotation spot. He's going to be given a spot. That means he's being given an opportunity to succeed. Whether he keeps it for years down the road is up to him but he's going to be given a spot.

Agreed. Woodruff has nothing else to prove in the minors, especially out in Colorado Springs. He's more MLB ready than Hader is at this point. Give him the experience in the majors and let him build off of it for next year.

[JohnBriggs12]

Pick up the $5mil option and trade him for a low-A boom-or-bust prospect if nothing else. Somebody will want him for $5mil.

 

Maybe, maybe not. San Diego cornered the market on low level FA last year and got 3 guys all for $1.75 million, Richard, Cahill and Chacin. For a good team Garza would be a depth guy and come to camp as a 6th or 7th starter. They won't pay $5 million for a depth piece. A rebuilding team like the White Sox could take a flier and hope to recoup some value though they might prefer to sign some guys to minor league deals or for under $3 million.

 

The Brewers will likely have Nelson, Davies, Anderson as the big 3. They need room for their guys knocking on the door in their system. I don't think they'll pick up his option.

Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all.

 

There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract.

 

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

[MrTPlush]

Alright Briggs. Don't be going to Vegas with that prediction. Now you just need to tie Khris Davis into this.

[Humans Need Water]

Maybe, maybe not. San Diego cornered the market on low level FA last year and got 3 guys all for $1.75 million, Richard, Cahill and Chacin. For a good team Garza would be a depth guy and come to camp as a 6th or 7th starter. They won't pay $5 million for a depth piece. A rebuilding team like the White Sox could take a flier and hope to recoup some value though they might prefer to sign some guys to minor league deals or for under $3 million.

 

The Brewers will likely have Nelson, Davies, Anderson as the big 3. They need room for their guys knocking on the door in their system. I don't think they'll pick up his option.

Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all.

 

There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract.

 

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

They dumped Scooter for Villar because Villar's 2016 absolutely destroyed anything Scooter has ever done in his baseball career combined with Arcia taking over SS. Saving 2M was a byproduct.

 

There's zero evidence the market isn't there for Garza. ZERO. Nobody said Garza is 100% going to be in our rotation next year - maybe some have said they think he's going to still be here but not definitively state he will. People are saying his option will be picked up, because at 5M it absolutely will be.

[FVBrewerFan]

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million.

 

That wasn't the reason, and you know it. I get you have different opinions about things, and that's fine. But it's this sort of comment that drives people crazy, since you know $2MM isn't the reason they let him go.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

 

As much as you hate Villar, his 2016 numbers indicate that the Brewers made the better choice. It really is too bad that he has regressed so badly this year, but Sterns made the decision based on potential. Gennett was 100% a known quantity at the time. And also prone to horrible streaky play.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ah, wait, are people calling the 5mil option a no-brainer? After his terrible 2015, so many here said his contract was worthless. I kept chiming that 5mil for a SP regardless of his production was going to be valuable to some team. It's was a great contract, and remains one now two years later. I'd expect a dozen or more teams to look at trading for him this offseason. Atlanta if they are signing Bartolo Colon for 12.5mil. Trading some piece in their system for Garza has to be a better option for them. You could easily fit in Villar but then I don't know whom you could ask among their top 10 prospects. So many really outstanding SP prospects, the lowest via MLB of Joey Wentz looking a hard to trade away. They all are performing super. Garza alone, I'd wonder if you ask for Touki Toussaint. Someone that seems more headed to the bullpen but young and with some helium in that role. Guess it all really depends how we finish the season. Woodruff's starts, Suter, and Villar's bat.

[MrTPlush]

Thank god he is doing well. Now we have a prime example of why you don't dump a worthless player two years before his contract ends. Couldn't stand the people pleasing to dump him even before last year. Now he is one of our best starters this year.

[KeithStone53151]

Richard, Cahill, Chacin haven't been full time starters the past 3yrs or so while also consistently battling injuries. Garza's been a starter his entire career and, when healthy, has always put up solid numbers just like he's doing this year. The past 2yrs he's been hit with one injury after another. His 2015 was terrible. Last year he had a 3.41 ERA over 16 of his 19 starts and this year he's been rock solid thus far. Those other guys don't compare to Garza at all.

 

There's a 0% chance his option isn't picked up. Whether he's still a Brewer next year remains to be seen but he'll be making 5M for someone pitching every 5th day because that production at that price is a very good contract.

 

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

They dumped Scooter for Villar because Villar's 2016 absolutely destroyed anything Scooter has ever done in his baseball career combined with Arcia taking over SS. Saving 2M was a byproduct.

 

There's zero evidence the market isn't there for Garza. ZERO. Nobody said Garza is 100% going to be in our rotation next year - maybe some have said they think he's going to still be here but not definitively state he will. People are saying his option will be picked up, because at 5M it absolutely will be.

 

I'll add the Scooter latched on to be a bench player on a 2nd division team, but is now playing full time due to injury and Peraza having a dreadful year. It's not like Scooter was claimed by a good team and immediately thrown in the starting lineup.

 

It will be interesting to see what the market is like for Garza. I'm sure Stearns and co will weigh out things like that prior to deciding on his option. He completely reinvented himself as a pitcher this year throwing way more off speed stuff, and he's had a decent amount of success. I think it is highly likely we pick up the option, and if we can't find a good enough trade in the offseason he could also be held into spring training waiting for a team to have a few SP injuries.

[KeithStone53151]

Thank god he is doing well. Now we have a prime example of why you don't dump a worthless player two years before his contract ends. Couldn't stand the people pleasing to dump him even before last year. Now he is one of our best starters this year.

 

Ok, he's had some success but let's not get carried away. "One of our best starters"...that's simply not accurate. By every metric, he's been worse than Nelson, Anderson, and Suter. He has better numbers than Davies YTD, but he also doesn't go nearly as deep into games and Davies had a rough stretch early on that he's slowly coming down from. He has been better than Guerra and Peralta, but that's saying very little. You can't compare him to Woodruff who hasn't thrown an MLB pitch yet. At best, he's our 4th best starter currently...but I think most would prefer Davies to Garza right now and going forward.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Garza is as good as gone after the season. He is handled with kid gloves because the Brewers don't want an issue with him going g forward (remember him walking away from the team rather than accepting a pen role). If he struggles at all, he will start sparingly after rosters expand. He is pitching for a 2018 contract but that contract will be in Minnesota or Cincinnati. I am hoping he can be lights out for five innings thru the end of the season but guess another DL stint is on the horizon.

[Boomer5]

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million.

 

That wasn't the reason, and you know it. I get you have different opinions about things, and that's fine. But it's this sort of comment that drives people crazy, since you know $2MM isn't the reason they let him go.

 

I think it was the $2M as sad as that sounds in 2017". The guy had been reasonably productive and was heading into his good years age wise. He proved at Cincinnati that he could be a utility guy and be a highly productive player, bordering on super elite. Villar had one good year, and fell back to earth which wasn't exactly hard to predict. Stearns picked the wrong horse to bet on despite having a full year to evaluate them.

 

There was no reason to dump him, especially since we are now looking at trading for Kinlser apparently.

 

As for Garza, $5 million is chump change for a quality number 4 starter. This is a no brainer.

[MrTPlush]

Thank god he is doing well. Now we have a prime example of why you don't dump a worthless player two years before his contract ends. Couldn't stand the people pleasing to dump him even before last year. Now he is one of our best starters this year.

 

Ok, he's had some success but let's not get carried away. "One of our best starters"...that's simply not accurate. By every metric, he's been worse than Nelson, Anderson, and Suter. He has better numbers than Davies YTD, but he also doesn't go nearly as deep into games and Davies had a rough stretch early on that he's slowly coming down from. He has been better than Guerra and Peralta, but that's saying very little. You can't compare him to Woodruff who hasn't thrown an MLB pitch yet. At best, he's our 4th best starter currently...but I think most would prefer Davies to Garza right now and going forward.

 

Not getting carried away. He has been our third best starter. Doesn't really matter who he is in front of. Many wanted him dumped or in the bullpen in favor of at least 5 guys.

[bill hAll Star]

I think it was the $2M as sad as that sounds in 2017". The guy had been reasonably productive and was heading into his good years age wise. He proved at Cincinnati that he could be a utility guy and be a highly productive player, bordering on super elite. Villar had one good year, and fell back to earth which wasn't exactly hard to predict. Stearns picked the wrong horse to bet on despite having a full year to evaluate them.

 

Scooter never had a year in the stratosphere of what Villar did (until this year) and he had 3.5 years to show it. His one year that was close was his first few months in the MLB where I think a lot of people can write that off to the league not having the book on him.

 

Villar is not a good defender, but now that Scooter is playing a lot of positions, he is not either.

 

I think if you would have told me Scooter would put up a .750 forever and be a below-average utility player defensively (but isn't really playing the positions of SS and rarely plays 3B that we need him to back up), I wouldn't have kept him at any cost. We don't need backup OF.

 

Scooter has been OK in the outfield and really, really bad at 3B in his 53 innings there this year.

 

Also to add: Scooter still cannot really hit LHP, which is fine, but also cuts into his utility man status.

 

Also also to add: He's starting to cool down. You have to give him the benefit of the rest of the season and into next year, but it's possible that this season is a blip on the radar just like Villar's 2016 might have been.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Though I've always rooted for him, Scooter has limitations defensively and also still cannot hit lefties (537 ops this year). His overall numbers look better because the Reds have largely protected him from LHP (only 65 of his 302 PA have come vs LHP). He's not an everyday 2b...he needs a platoon partner and that creates roster challenges.

 

Garza, much as I don't like the guy, has been really solid and his option is a no-brainer.

[reillymcshane]

Scooter Gennett is not on the Milwaukee Brewers. I don't really care about Scooter Gennett. We let him go. The club had their reasons. Like it or not, we can't change that.

 

And why is he being brought up in a Matt Garza trade thread?

[reillymcshane]

Regarding Garza, I've considered just dumping him in the past simply to clear out a spot and let our young guys have a chance to pitch. However, I also have said that if he can have a solid first half of 2017, he might have some value. Fast forward, and he's done exactly that. Has he been great? No. Has he been solid - yes.

 

For $5M, he's a good deal in 2018. If not in Milwaukee, then somewhere else. Assuming he finishes the season pitching like he has been thus far, we'd be foolish to not pick up the option. If we ultimately decide we want other players in the rotation next year, we could trade him (we wouldn't get a ton - but we could get something).

 

Keeping him would probably be the prudent move. It offers protection against injuries (think about it - four of our starting pitchers this year - Anderson, Guerra, Woodruff, Peralta - have been on the DL this year).

[StearnsFTW]

Garza is as good as gone after the season. He is handled with kid gloves because the Brewers don't want an issue with him going g forward (remember him walking away from the team rather than accepting a pen role). If he struggles at all, he will start sparingly after rosters expand. He is pitching for a 2018 contract but that contract will be in Minnesota or Cincinnati. I am hoping he can be lights out for five innings thru the end of the season but guess another DL stint is on the horizon.

 

You're crazy if you think that option isn't getting picked up.

[StearnsFTW]

Scooter Gennett is not on the Milwaukee Brewers. I don't really care about Scooter Gennett. We let him go. The club had their reasons. Like it or not, we can't change that.

 

And why is he being brought up in a Matt Garza trade thread?

 

I agree.

 

And I assume that last question is rhetorical.

[OnTheBlack]

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

 

As much as you hate Villar, his 2016 numbers indicate that the Brewers made the better choice. It really is too bad that he has regressed so badly this year, but Sterns made the decision based on potential. Gennett was 100% a known quantity at the time. And also prone to horrible streaky play.

 

 

Lets also keep in mind he's 26 years old and is a natural shortstop who is playing 2nd base regularly for the first time. You see these types of regressions fairly often with young players who break out and then turn down long term deals. He likely started out pressing which led to struggles which led to more pressing. Baseball is a miserable game when you get caught in that cycle. He has however shown he can hit 20 HR's(or dang near if anyone wants to nitpick) and was very dangerous on the base paths. Of course he was dangerous to both us and the opposing teams, but the point remains, there's a lot of talent there and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him bounce back and put up a .270/.350/450 slash line in the future.

 

I seem to remember a whole lot of people give up on another young MIF'er who had a great year 1 in Milwaukee and then struggled and is now an All Star in Seattle(not arguing we shouldn't have made that trade at all for the record).

[OnTheBlack]

 

This is the same team that dumped it's everyday 2B for the previous 3 and a half seasons because he was making a little over $2 million. Garza's not in the plans for next year and the market for him just isn't there.

 

 

It's the same player that nobody wanted to trade for. Nobody wanted to give up anything for him. So his hometown team ended up signing him. That's what happened. Given how ownership has supported this team financially, I think it's just beyond ridiculous to suggest that the Brewers made this move to save 2 million dollars rather than they just didn't think he was good enough/or figured into the future of the team. At the time, we had a guy who put up a 4 WAR coming back at the only position he can really play effectively and a guy who didn't have to sit vs lefties. Plus we had plenty of depth.

 

Garza is as good as gone after the season. He is handled with kid gloves because the Brewers don't want an issue with him going g forward (remember him walking away from the team rather than accepting a pen role). If he struggles at all, he will start sparingly after rosters expand. He is pitching for a 2018 contract but that contract will be in Minnesota or Cincinnati. I am hoping he can be lights out for five innings thru the end of the season but guess another DL stint is on the horizon.

 

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I have no idea if he's gonna come back to the Brewers next year, but would you say that if he were a free agent he would get more or less than 5 million dollars on a ONE year deal?

 

I think just about everyone would say over and most people would likely argue that it would take probably 2 years and 24 million or even 3/36 to sign him next year as a free agent. So I think it's a given his option is picked up. Provided he doesn't have some type of major injury, his option will be picked up. The question is does he then get dealt for whatever we can get for him, or do the Brewers keep a proven, viable middle to back of the rotation starter who is a vet to provide insurance against what is a largely unproven young rotation.

 

To not pick up the option given what Garza has done right now would be akin to just giving away an asset. Either an asset that can help your team win or one that can be used to trade for a couple of young guys who MAY eventually help them win. Either way, I believe it'd be foolish to not pick it up.