Brewers purchase the contracts of Hader, Brinson, Cordell, Phillips, and T. Williams; claim OF Adam Walker from Minnesota

[endaround]

Santana has had serious issues with RH pitching. Having a soft platoon with Kirk N. while coming off injury is hardly the end of the world. Also Kirk N had wRC+ of 89 and grades out at average to above average in CF meaning he could be a low end starting CFer, basically Jacoby Ellsbury. I don't get the whole dump him for nothing thing. I mean he was as valuable as Chris Carter in 2016 in 2/3rd the PAs and the Brewers won't have to pay him $8 million for 2017.

[adambr2]

Santana has had serious issues with RH pitching. Having a soft platoon with Kirk N. while coming off injury is hardly the end of the world. Also Kirk N had wRC+ of 89 and grades out at average to above average in CF meaning he could be a low end starting CFer, basically Jacoby Ellsbury. I don't get the whole dump him for nothing thing. I mean he was as valuable as Chris Carter in 2016 in 2/3rd the PAs and the Brewers won't have to pay him $8 million for 2017.

 

I just don't care to see a guy around with little upside who won't be a part of our future when we have many that will.

 

Frankly, I'd prefer to tender and trade him. But I feel that the fact that he didn't go anywhere in August when it made all the sense in the world tells us his trade value is miniscule.

[trwi7]

There was around a 2wk gap when Santana first came back where he was playing less than half the time but he started 11 of 15 before Kirk went down.

 

Kirk was hurt in the beginning of September and was getting sporadic pinch hit appearances and resting hoping he could come back before the season. Suffice it to say, if he wasn't injured, what you saw the first couple of weeks after Santana came back is what you would've seen for the rest of the season if not for the injury.

[MKE81]

There was around a 2wk gap when Santana first came back where he was playing less than half the time but he started 11 of 15 before Kirk went down.

 

Kirk was hurt in the beginning of September and was getting sporadic pinch hit appearances and resting hoping he could come back before the season. Suffice it to say, if he wasn't injured, what you saw the first couple of weeks after Santana came back is what you would've seen for the rest of the season if not for the injury.

Between Sept 2-13 (12 games) Kirk started 7x playing the entire game and subbed late in another. So, no, he wasn't hurt and barely playing. Santana clearly saw an increase in PT in Sept (starting 11 of first 15 games that month) even while Kirk was still playing, as noted, and Santana was killing it in Sept until Kirk went down (16th).

[MKE81]

Santana has had serious issues with RH pitching. Having a soft platoon with Kirk N. while coming off injury is hardly the end of the world. Also Kirk N had wRC+ of 89 and grades out at average to above average in CF meaning he could be a low end starting CFer, basically Jacoby Ellsbury. I don't get the whole dump him for nothing thing. I mean he was as valuable as Chris Carter in 2016 in 2/3rd the PAs and the Brewers won't have to pay him $8 million for 2017.

231/318/726 last year as a 23yr old in first MLB season (better than 2015). 2015 he slashed 288/385/888 including his not so good MLB numbers. 2014 was 264/360/775 including his 0-8 in MLB. He doesn't have serious issues. You might be the only person who would say Kirk is basically Ellsbury.

[patrickgpe]

MLB put Walker at #28 on the Brewers top 30. I don't know where he was on Minnesota's list.

he was 15, i saw it on twitter but can't remember who tweeted it.

 

I like this move over protecting Wang or Diaz. If he can improve his plate discipline there may be something there. The brewers are in a position to use 40 man roster spots on projects like this.

 

Regarding Roache, Coulter, and Taylor. I just don't see any of the 3 being drafted AND staying on a MLB roster for a full season. wouldn't be surprised to see atleast one drafted though.

 

The whole point of the rule V draft is to give players opportunities that are blocked by their current club. Outfield is the strength of the brewers farm system, so i can't see any of the 3 being up in Milwaukee any time soon.

[MNBrew]

Even if we lose a few players in the Rule 5 draft, few ultimately last the season and most of those who don't, they get taken back by their original team. So when this all shakes out, I'm doubtful that we'd lose (forever) more than 1, maybe 2, out of all those who might get picked.

 

The Wang thing perplexes me, but maybe the Brewers still see potential in Goforth that's down deeper than his non-success in MLB this year (including ST, I believe). It's worth remembering that Blazek showed really about zero when they first gave him a shot. Then things straightened out for him and he was very reliable in '15 before the mess that was his 2016.

 

On a different note, I've never understood the love for Tyrone Taylor. He's never shown a stellar bat (whether BA or power/run production) above rookie ball and his SB numbers are sub-Braun/Broxton/Perez. Maybe they saw him as a Jeff Cirillo type??? I wonder if the love was more for potential that ultimately has yet to show much sign of realizing.

[ZBTMP]

Late to the discussion, but not too worried about losing any position player. None project to be above replacement currently and its harder to hide a hitter than a pitcher. The at-bats they can get during "mop-up" duty is maybe 2 if it is a big blow out. On the other hand you can give a pitcher multiple innings. I still think Orf is the most likely to be taken and his star no doubt dropped last season that its a minute chance.

 

I don't think Wang offers a ton of upside that a team will keep him if he isnt on their best 25. As a starter, I don't see his fastball averaging over 89 and his secondary stuff isn't great. He has shown good control but I still wonder if he has the command to keep the ball in the yard consistently against big league hitting.

 

Diaz concerns me. I don't know if it is a case of me overvaluing our own. I doubt he is a starter long term with his build (6'1" 175) and inconsistency, but his upside in the bullpen seems pretty high to me.

[FVBrewerFan]

On a different note, I've never understood the love for Tyrone Taylor. He's never shown a stellar bat (whether BA or power/run production) above rookie ball

 

He hit .738 in A, then .727 in A+ both when he was roughly 2.5 years younger than avg player there. Good k rate, and good walk rate. That's not earth shaking, but there was reason to hope. Anyhow, that's why there WAS some love for him, but not much anymore.

[LouisEly]

The problems with the calls to cut Nieuwenhuis or Maldonado is that it is at best a temporary spot you're creating. Right now you have 12 major league position players on the 40-man roster, maybe 13 if you plan to use Walker off the bench. They might get swapped out (Gennett for a third baseman, Maldonado for another infielder), but those spots will be used by major leaguers so if you give one to Diaz or Wang, you'd have to cut someone else later on, and if it is one of the guys they added, well a waiver claim is much less restrictive than a Rule 5 pick. You might have been able to free up a spot by declaring an odd reliever out, but for the most part the decision was probably guys ticketed for AAA such as Goforth and Reed versus Diaz and Wang (and for the record, I probably would have gone with the latter two).

Yes and no. If you have guys on the 40 man now who project to or could start the season on the 60-day DL (T. Williams as an example) that will clear roster spots in the spring to add NRIs to fill the holes in the major league roster.

 

The bigger picture is that now they have nine OFs on the 40-man. Nine. That to me is just as bad as not having major league caliber players to fill out a 25-man roster. Maybe Walker can move to 1B, but other than that the other eight OFs aren't going to fill holes in the infield, pitcher, or catcher any more than young pitching that isn't ready yet.

 

I can understand Scahill, and I've speculated that he could have value in a trade with the Dodgers to help fill out the Dodgers bullpen with cheap quality arms to try to get under the luxury tax threshold. I don't understand Rivera (Perez is your super-sub, Rivera will never have a major-league bat, and there will be a dozen guys as good as Rivera they can grab off the waiver wire), Goforth (hasn't shown anything and he's 28), or Nieuwenhuis (they have at least seven other OFs). Two of those three should have been left off and Wang and Diaz added.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Yes and no. If you have guys on the 40 man now who project to or could start the season on the 60-day DL (T. Williams as an example) that will clear roster spots in the spring to add NRIs to fill the holes in the major league roster.

 

The bigger picture is that now they have nine OFs on the 40-man. Nine. That to me is just as bad as not having major league caliber players to fill out a 25-man roster. Maybe Walker can move to 1B, but other than that the other eight OFs aren't going to fill holes in the infield, pitcher, or catcher any more than young pitching that isn't ready yet.

 

I can understand Scahill, and I've speculated that he could have value in a trade with the Dodgers to help fill out the Dodgers bullpen with cheap quality arms to try to get under the luxury tax threshold. I don't understand Rivera (Perez is your super-sub, Rivera will never have a major-league bat, and there will be a dozen guys as good as Rivera they can grab off the waiver wire), Goforth (hasn't shown anything and he's 28), or Nieuwenhuis (they have at least seven other OFs). Two of those three should have been left off and Wang and Diaz added.

 

Yep, you could go an NRI for the fourth outfielder spot and toss Houser on the 60-day DL, but that wouldn't do anything to solve the outfield numbers you're talking about because you'd be back to 9 after spring training, unless you're putting Reed in as the fourth outfielder (which his 2016 signals he's not ready for). Nieuwenhuis is what he is, but if you're looking to clear a spot for a minor leaguer, his isn't the one to look at. Someone has to be the fourth outfielder, and if they acquire a better one at some point you can waive Nieuwenhuis then.

[MNBrew]

I think the greater concern is the loss of young players with good potential via the Rule V draft. Dumping Nieuwenhuis later doesn't undo lost players.

[CheeseheadInQC]

And depending on how many you want to protect, there were other places to find the slots. I probably would have protected Diaz over Goforth and Wang over Reed. (I still think Reed has a chance to become a decent player, but after his struggles last year and the trades the Brewers made, he might be going into the season as the fifth best outfielder on the Brewers' AAA team, even assuming Phillips is back in Biloxi. Swapping his 40-man spot for Wang's might have been in both his and the team's best interest.)

 

At least four outfielders are going to be on the major league roster by opening day. Sure you could play roster games to try to delay a decision, but I'm not sure why that's the best option.

[rwa12]

I think the greater concern is the loss of young players with good potential via the Rule V draft. Dumping Nieuwenhuis later doesn't undo lost players.

 

I think the Brewers' Farm has finally reached the point where we have to lose some people with potential. You just hope you protect the right ones!

[JohnBriggs12]

I think the greater concern is the loss of young players with good potential via the Rule V draft. Dumping Nieuwenhuis later doesn't undo lost players.

 

I think the Brewers' Farm has finally reached the point where we have to lose some people with potential. You just hope you protect the right ones!

 

How many Rule 5 draftees stick with the drafting team every year? 2-3 tops? Most teams pass on the Rule 5 draft altogether. You can't stash an unlimited number of quality prospects in your system though. Eventually you'll start to lose them and/or their disappointing performance will dictate they are no longer prospects. I would hope they are close to the point where the trading of a quality player off their roster will result in some major league talent back. That was my biggest beef about the timing and the decision on Davis. I could have lived with the Braun to the Dodgers proposal that was out there because it included a major league talent like Puig coming back in the deal.

[homer]

I think the greater concern is the loss of young players with good potential via the Rule V draft. Dumping Nieuwenhuis later doesn't undo lost players.

 

I think the Brewers' Farm has finally reached the point where we have to lose some people with potential. You just hope you protect the right ones!

 

How many Rule 5 draftees stick with the drafting team every year? 2-3 tops? Most teams pass on the Rule 5 draft altogether. You can't stash an unlimited number of quality prospects in your system though. Eventually you'll start to lose them and/or their disappointing performance will dictate they are no longer prospects. I would hope they are close to the point where the trading of a quality player off their roster will result in some major league talent back. That was my biggest beef about the timing and the decision on Davis. I could have lived with the Braun to the Dodgers proposal that was out there because it included a major league talent like Puig coming back in the deal.

 

 

Why do you need major league talent coming back? What you need is the best talent period. Controllable talent is even better in a small market. Getting MLB talent back for the sake of getting MLB talent means ending up with Kevin Mench.

[MKE81]

Not to mention Puig just replaces Braun - a position we are most stacked at so I don't understand the logic behind that example of MLB talent coming back

[LouisEly]

Someone has to be the fourth outfielder, and if they acquire a better one at some point you can waive Nieuwenhuis then.

Nieuwenhuis, Reed, Perez - they have plenty of 4th OF candidates, and they'll have Brinson, Phillips, and Cordell (plus hopefully Wren) to call up if someone gets hurt. Nieuwenhuis and Reed are redundant, one of them did not need to be protected.

[Crash2303]

Not to mention Puig just replaces Braun - a position we are most stacked at so I don't understand the logic behind that example of MLB talent coming back

 

at the time of the proposed trade, Puig had lost significant value and was sent to the minors. The Brewers thought they could capitalize on this, as it was not too long ago that Puig was one of the most valuable young talents in baseball, and place a bet that he would re-establish himself the next season and they could re-trade him for a lot more, at the deadline or after the season, and by then Brinson and/or others would be ready to step in.

 

as it so happened, Puig went off and did exactly that, at least in a limited number of games. it'll be interesting to see if in fact talks do re-emerge.

[logan82]

Puig was mostly relegated to a platoon after he came back up. Be careful not to overlook that.

[MKE81]

Not to mention Puig just replaces Braun - a position we are most stacked at so I don't understand the logic behind that example of MLB talent coming back

 

at the time of the proposed trade, Puig had lost significant value and was sent to the minors. The Brewers thought they could capitalize on this, as it was not too long ago that Puig was one of the most valuable young talents in baseball, and place a bet that he would re-establish himself the next season and they could re-trade him for a lot more, at the deadline or after the season, and by then Brinson and/or others would be ready to step in.

 

as it so happened, Puig went off and did exactly that, at least in a limited number of games. it'll be interesting to see if in fact talks do re-emerge.

The point I was making with that specific comment was in regard to Briggs saying he wanted MLB talent back to better the team overall in places needing a boost when we are trading specific guys (one of those mentioned was Braun). I was saying if Puig comes back for Braun then nothing changes. It's one OF for another. I have no idea what your comment has to do with mine. I'm well aware of why the Brewers want Puig and I'm all for it. I like it . But that trade was a bad example for what Briggs was trying to say