Hypothetical: 3 moves a front office focusing on winning in 2017 could do to contend

[3and2Fastball]

Best thing we can do to contend is for Arcia, Villar, Brinson, Santana, and our pitchers to elevate their game to All-Star levels and beyond.... then when we have the division lead in July we can trade for a difference maker

[HighHeat19]

This topic actually makes me sick. I understand its a good idea to look at all facets and possibilities of ways to win, but in no way should the Brewers perform this "trade to win now" theory. Now quite frankly, I think we all know it will not happen. 3and2 has a good point but I do not see alot of these young guys playing until September call ups and 2018.

 

Once again, I think we will see some young surprises these year, and my money is on Santana to put up all star caliber numbers and possibly Broxton too. I also see a darkhorse playing 3rd next year that we would of never guessed would be the 3rd baseman as of today.

[MrTPlush]

This topic actually makes me sick.

 

I guess the mods didn't like my first reply, but this thread isn't serious. Everyone here, even Briggs who started it, understands it would never happen and its just a "for fun" thread in the dead of the offseason.

[MadThinker88]

This topic actually makes me sick.

 

I guess the mods didn't like my first reply, but this thread isn't serious. Everyone here, even Briggs who started it, understands it would never happen and its just a "for fun" thread in the dead of the offseason.

 

With some of the other ideas that Briggs puts out there, its rough to tell the 'just conversation' from "I seriously think the club needs to do this"

[MrTPlush]

This topic actually makes me sick.

 

I guess the mods didn't like my first reply, but this thread isn't serious. Everyone here, even Briggs who started it, understands it would never happen and its just a "for fun" thread in the dead of the offseason.

 

With some of the other ideas that Briggs puts out there, its rough to tell the 'just conversation' from "I seriously think the club needs to do this"

 

Oh Briggs would love for the Brewers to do it. That is what he wants. However he understands it won't happen

[monty57]

This topic actually makes me sick.

 

I guess the mods didn't like my first reply, but this thread isn't serious. Everyone here, even Briggs who started it, understands it would never happen and its just a "for fun" thread in the dead of the offseason.

 

Wait, you don't think I was serious when I called for us to sign Bautista, Encarnacion and Jansen and trade for Sale and Quintana this offseason :-)

[StearnsFTW]

No, and No on the idea. First off Santana, Hader, and Bickford have got to be an overpay. This is a sure fire #2 in Quintana. Not an Ace.

 

Second, Santana is a major value here that seems to be disregarded.

 

Let me throw this back at JBriggs, because I can definitely smell his disgust for Santana and the reason Khris Davis was dealt, by the fact he wants to rid of him. I think Santana is an Allstar in the waiting as a batter. Certainly the best bat on the ML team past Braun forthcoming in OPS. Removing him from the team to me reduces the Brewers' chance of competing in 2017 moreso than adding Quintana. Every day Player vs every 5th day. Santana finished off September with 7HRs as a 23year old. From the 8th game on, his OPS never got below .700, even with his injuries. And finished just below .800OPS at .792.

 

For Reverse Reference. It took Davis til game 25 to crack the .700OPS mark and #37 before he stayed above it the rest of the season. Davis was 25 before even making it to the Brewers. Hit that 10HRs in Sept at age 27. Had 8HRs in Sept this year.

 

How does Santana not grow on you or anyone else to like? 23years old, 7HRs in Sept when finally getting regular playing time. Imagine what and where he can be by age 27? Whereas Davis is 5'10, Santana 6'5"...Leverage does some major things, ask Richie Sexson.

 

What a thievery by the White Sox!

 

 

Oh and going to dismiss some of Justin Turner signing since he is a QO receiver. Would cost the team the 2nd pick they have. TBD when the lottery is handled.

 

If Quintana is traded, it will be for a heck of a lot more than Bickford/Hader/Santana type prospects. He's got a great contract and is a damn good pitcher.

 

I would expect it to be a couple top 50 type prospects and more.

 

You do know Hader is #33 and Bickford is #53 currently according to MLB?

And Santana preseason 2015 was #73? And already playing on the ML team helping it?

 

This is why I can't take offering up Santana in trade. Brinson has nothing approaching Santana's Ceiling. In the hypothetical, would you trade Brinson, Hader, and Bickford for Quintana?

 

I didn't know that, but I don't really see Bickford as that level of 'elite' prospect. Hader, sure. I also think Brinson's ceiling is quite a bit higher than Santana's, but that's just my opinion, others may disagree. I'm guessing you do.

 

Would I make that deal if the Brewers were on the verge of being very good for a few years? Easily. Quintana is worth that.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 - trade Santana and Brinson to the A's for Khris Davis

2 - Sign Justin Masterson, Travis Wood, and Trevor Cahill

3 - Sign Matt Joyce

 

...or you could just continue the rebuilding process that's only been implemented for about 1 year that likely focuses on the Brewers starting to go after the Cubs and Cardinals come 2018.

 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[trwi7]

1 - trade Santana and Brinson to the A's for Khris Davis

2 - Sign Justin Masterson, Travis Wood, and Trevor Cahill

3 - Sign Matt Joyce

 

Is this serious? Because the team after these moves would be pretty horrible.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

They've done #1, and that is extend Counsell as manager.

2. would be taking a look at the 3b Hwang for an international signing, or claiming Plouffe to secure a truer 3baseman

3. Find a sucker to take any of the SPs from the roster not named Davies and overpay for said Pitcher.

[logan82]

1 - trade Santana and Brinson to the A's for Khris Davis

2 - Sign Justin Masterson, Travis Wood, and Trevor Cahill

3 - Sign Matt Joyce

 

Is this serious? Because the team after these moves would be pretty horrible.

But it would make Briggs happy.

[trwi7]

1 - trade Santana and Brinson to the A's for Khris Davis

2 - Sign Justin Masterson, Travis Wood, and Trevor Cahill

3 - Sign Matt Joyce

 

Is this serious? Because the team after these moves would be pretty horrible.

But it would make Briggs happy.

 

Dammit. Should've picked up on that. Well played, Fear The Chorizo.

[logan82]

I would have thought trade 1 was a dead giveaway.

[NievesNoNO]

I think you'd really have to dig deep to find 3 realistic moves that would turn this team into a contender, although with the extra wildcard I suppose it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. I, in no way, am willing to give up what they are building... even in this supposed scenario.

 

1. Sign Ivan Nova. Maybe he could be had for 3/38 mil. Probably will take 4 years in a pitching thin market.

2. Sign Valbuena to play 3B. I'm not sure in what universe I would've thought that'd a good idea but maybe a couple years for 14-15 mil. is doable.

3. Trade Braun to the Dodgers for Jose De Leon +. I'd give Santana RF, Broxton CF, and hope LF can be manned by some combination of Reed/Cordell/Brinson. I know that seems counter productive to being competitive in 2017 but crazy things would have to happen anyway and unless the pitching improves there is no chance.

 

1. Villar 2B

2. Reed LF - still holding out hope there's some Scotty Po in there somewhere with the bat. Brinson comes up mid-season-ish

3. Valbuena 3B

4. Carter 1B

5. Broxton CF - I'm REAAALLY hoping the small sample late in the year is somewhat for real

6. Santana rf - kind of an x-factor. Still has a chance to be special imo. He'll need to be if they'll compete in 2017

7. Arcia ss

8. Susac

 

Perez as the super-sub getting regular playing time

 

 

1. Guerra

2. Davies

3. Nova

4. De Leon

5. Neslon/Peralta/Garza

6. Hader - Waiting for his chance.

[MadThinker88]

The Brewers could call the Dodgers and offer Braun & enough money to pay half his remaining contract for Jose DeLeon ALONE .... and the Dodgers would decline the offer.

 

It was announced on MLB Network radio (heard via Sirius XM while driving a rental today) that the Dodgers need to reduce their payroll to cut into the club debt (due to MLB team rules).

 

Right now their payroll is/was over $300 Million and they are trying to get down to $200 Million.

 

Smaller market teams don't like hearing it but there are league rules related to debt ratios for the clubs.

[adambr2]

The Dodgers needing to reduce debt doesn't take them out of the running for Braun. Don't you think when the Dodgers nearly made the deal for Braun less than 3 months ago, they were aware of what their own financial situation was?

 

If we offered the Dodgers enough to pay half his remaining contract as in your example above, that would effectively give the Dodgers Braun for 4 years and 38 million, which would be very cost effective for them, not cost preventive.

[FVBrewerFan]

The Brewers could call the Dodgers and offer Braun & enough money to pay half his remaining contract for Jose DeLeon ALONE .... and the Dodgers would decline the offer.

 

It was announced on MLB Network radio (heard via Sirius XM while driving a rental today) that the Dodgers need to reduce their payroll to cut into the club debt (due to MLB team rules).

 

Right now their payroll is/was over $300 Million and they are trying to get down to $200 Million.

 

Smaller market teams don't like hearing it but there are league rules related to debt ratios for the clubs.

 

I'm not at all familiar with how that works, but assuming it's true it helps explain why the deal didn't get done. Seems Puig would have to be part of that deal, which isn't nearly enough as the keystone.

 

In order for the Brewers to do the deal then, they would have to take Puig and would want a top end prospect like Deleon. Plus, possibly pay a chunk of Braun's salary. That's a messy deal, and hard to satisfy both sides. It's still possible, just seems one side or the other would have to knowingly get the short end of the stick.

[monty57]

The Brewers could call the Dodgers and offer Braun & enough money to pay half his remaining contract for Jose DeLeon ALONE .... and the Dodgers would decline the offer.

 

It was announced on MLB Network radio (heard via Sirius XM while driving a rental today) that the Dodgers need to reduce their payroll to cut into the club debt (due to MLB team rules).

 

Right now their payroll is/was over $300 Million and they are trying to get down to $200 Million.

 

Smaller market teams don't like hearing it but there are league rules related to debt ratios for the clubs.

 

I think I get where you're going, but reducing payroll does not reduce debt. It reduces future obligations, and assuming revenue remains constant, the additional money not spent on payroll could (in the future) be used to pay down debt, but if they were able to somehow get rid of $100M in 2017 payroll immediately, their current debt would remain the same. I'd guess that there is a rule in place that once debt-to-income or debt-to-asset ratios reach a certain point, the team is mandated to cut payroll by a certain % and use the excess revenues to pay down debt until the ratios are back in line.

 

As to Braun-to-the-Dodgers talk, there is little doubt that the MLB guys coming back would be included as salary relief for the Dodgers, who probably just need to have a lower payroll for a season or two in order to be able to pay off enough debt for them to get the commissioner's office off their back going forward. Braun would "only" cost them $15M for 2017 & 2018 (rest is deferred), and Puig and McCarthy combine for nearly $20M in 2017 & 2018 salary.

 

Anderson ($15.8M), Jansen ($10.65M), Utley ($7M), Howell ($6.25M), Turner ($5.1M), and Ellis ($4.5M) are all free agents, and after 2017, Crawford and Guerrero's nearly $30M will be off the books. For the most part, they're likely in a situation where they just need to pretty much stand pat and not add any additional obligations. Any cutting they can do is a bonus, so saving roughly $5M/year for 2017 and 2018 by putting Puig and McCarthy in a deal for Braun should get the commissioner's approval.

 

As for the Brewers, they have plenty of payroll room to take some high-priced / short-term contracts back as long as that means they get some really good prospects back in return. They then just have to hope that the veterans play well enough to be flipped at the deadline, and their already strong farm system will be even stronger with the high-end prospect additions. But there's little reason for the Brewers to do this unless the Dodgers throw in some really good prospects.

[pacopete4]

[sarcasm]1. Sign Eric Thames

2. DFA Chris Carter

3. Sign Counsell to at least a 3 year deal.[/sarcasm]