Hypothetical: 3 moves a front office focusing on winning in 2017 could do to contend

[JohnBriggs12]

1. Trade Gennett, Santana, Hader, and Bickford to White Sox for Jose Quintana

 

2. Sign FA Justin Turner for 5 years $85-90 million

 

3. Sign Jason Castro to platoon at Catcher for 2 years, $15-16 million

 

Plus still make the type of moves they will have to do anyway this offseason, to balance the bullpen, maybe add a bench piece or two.

 

Opening day lineup would be:

 

Villar 2B

 

Broxton CF

 

Braun LF

 

Turner 3B

 

Carter 1B

 

Castro C

 

Perez/Brinson RF

 

Arcia SS

 

Quintana P

 

Rotation behind Quintana would be Guerra, Davies, Peralta and either Anderson or Nelson.

 

No that lineup wouldn't come near the Cubs, but neither are the Pirates or Cards but it could realistically be in the thick of wild card, and there'd still be opportunity to flip players if not.

 

It won't happen or even be considered, but just thought it would make an interesting idea.

[MrTPlush]

1. You might get a competitive team out of that...but I'd say your odds are quite low.

 

2.Not even close to acquiring Quintana...not even remotely close. So that's a problem. Would probably take Brinson too. Then maybe it is at least on the ballpark. Though still likely requiring more.

[StearnsFTW]

1. You might get a competitive team out of that...but I'd say your odds are quite low.

 

2.Not even close to acquiring Quintana...not even remotely close. So that's a problem. Would probably take Brinson too. Then maybe it is at least on the ballpark. Though still likely requiring more.

 

What he said.

 

Carlos Quintana is a very, very good pitcher. He will command more than that offer.

[Mudville9]

I would be more apt to try something like this next year or the year after. I just don't think we have firm grasp on what the future Brewers will look like. Hopefully after this year we have a better idea of what we have in Phillips, Brinson, Ray, Diaz, Erceg and can find weaknesses that we can start taking shots at plugging in the coming years. I just think we are at least a year away from that and I'm not sure that is DS's way of doing things anyway.

[MrTPlush]

The big problem with trading for Quintana is the fact you want to sell the farm before we even have a solid MLB ballclub. Selling the farm for a two year rental is something you can do once you have a solid/competive roster(like what we did pre-2011). If you do that now you are trading away half of our top prospects and we need them.

 

This is something you would do in 2-3 years when the roster is built just needs fine touching.

[Madhawk23]

I think we all want to compete for a playoff spot as soon as possible, but this just doesn't make any sense for where this franchise currently is. I'd love to win next year just as much as the next Brewer fan, but if we really want to build a franchise here that might be able to sustain success, then we need to allow DS the opportunity to finish the rebuilding process - and I think that is going to require at least one more year of losing. I think we have to trade Braun this winter and get good value in return (even if it means eating $$ or a bad contract in the deal), and then potentially look at dealing Guerra and Thornburg at the deadline next summer, if both guys have strong first halves. We need to continue to stockpile as much young talent as we possibly can, and then just sit back and hope that many of them turn into quality big league players (and that at least 1-2 of them develop into all star caliber). Then, in a couple of years we can look to hit the free agent market and look to potentially trade some of our excess young talent if there is clearly a window to go for a championship.

[MadThinker88]

Pushing/ Trying to contend in 2017 (even for a wild card spot) is a HUGE mistake.

A mistake that all other clubs in the NL Central (and the rest of NL for that matter) hope Milwaukee makes.

 

Many might not like hearing it but now (and 2018) is a time for extreme patience.

Taking the long view will be more beneficial for the Brewers & their fans in the long run.

[MKE81]

I would actually be upset if the Brewers did that trade. Quintana is a very good pitcher but Hader is 5yrs younger and could be just as good if not better. Then you're giving up Bickford, Santana on top of that? No. Signing Turner for 5yrs means he's here during his age 32-36 seasons. Considering he did nothing prior to his age 29 season and didn't really break out until age 30 means he will most likely be an avg player at best his final 2yrs of that contract and you'll get nothing decent in a trade unless you kick in money. And Erceg will most likely be up by year 4 of that deal, which means you're moving Turner somewhere. Plus we aren't competitive in 2017 and 2018 we could be competitive but not playoff competitive (almost-ish). So trading for 2yrs of Quintana then signing Turner really doesn't make much sense from my perspective. The Brewers don't need Castro either - Pina hits RHP better than him and he's 1/10 the price tag. Susac/Pina will be the catchers as Maldy isn't competing with them to start (even though they might say he is).

[tmwiese55]

He said right in the opener that this is just a fun thing to talk about. He realizes it doesn't make sense and isn't pushing it. He's just trying to spark conversation during the downtime. I think it's a fun thing to talk about just to kill time. I'd think any thing tossed out in this scenario would start with Turner at 3B, then finding a hypothetical trade for a top end starter like a Quintana/Sale. Then hope guys like Guerra, Davies do well after them. Theoretically you could probably get an 85ish win team realistically assembled.

 

It's just not worth going for it this year and next (while the Cubs are still loaded) when it limits them in 3-5 years. Which, as OP said, is what makes this not a good route.

[ewitkows]

I'd rather just give jason hammel 3 years , but I'm on board with the other 2 moves. We will have a ton of cap space over the next couple of years , we can actually pay for an ace now .

[reillymcshane]

Quintana has four years of control if you include two team options in 2019 and 2020. And at really good rates ($10.5M and $11.5M).

 

As people have noted, the proposed trade for Quintana isn't good enough. He's a really good pitcher, and he's under control for four years at about $37M total. That's an insanely good value in this market.

[tmwiese55]

What would we think is reasonable for Quintana? I'd think we start Brinson and hopefully find a way to do it without giving up Hader. With that contract just pointed out it really wouldn't be a bad idea to get him now. Just have to look at how much we'd have to give up. Obviously we don't know which ones will pan out but we have a glut of OFs that we could trade from.

[FVBrewerFan]

He said right in the opener that this is just a fun thing to talk about. He realizes it doesn't make sense and isn't pushing it.

 

It's just not worth going for it this year and next (while the Cubs are still loaded) when it limits them in 3-5 years. Which, as OP said, is what makes this not a good route.

 

Not that it really matters I guess, but he never said it doesn't make sense or is not a good route.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm pretty sure Turner and Castro will get more than that and that trade isn't even close for Quintana. Even if those things happen this team still has questionable starting pitching at best. That would probably be a .500 team.

[MrTPlush]

What would we think is reasonable for Quintana? I'd think we start Brinson and hopefully find a way to do it without giving up Hader. With that contract just pointed out it really wouldn't be a bad idea to get him now. Just have to look at how much we'd have to give up. Obviously we don't know which ones will pan out but we have a glut of OFs that we could trade from.

 

Brinson/Hader plus more high quality prospects. 4 years of control is really good for a pitcher like him.

[MNBrew]

It won't happen or even be considered, but just thought it would make an interesting idea.

OP did say this, and the thread title specifically says "Hypothetical," so it's pretty clear JB12 put it out there for the fun of discussion. To rail on the idea and say it's crazy belabors the obvious and misses the point.

 

There are plenty of other threads that exist with suggested trade ideas that are equally unlikely for a variety of reasons, yet they're presented with great enthusiasm.

 

I think the notion of conceiving a set of only 3 moves -- and in the direction of plausible rather than preposterous -- that would give the Brewers something of a chance to contend is an intriguing and challenging idea -- of course not realistic, but still fun.

[brewcrewdue80]

No, and No on the idea. First off Santana, Hader, and Bickford have got to be an overpay. This is a sure fire #2 in Quintana. Not an Ace.

 

Second, Santana is a major value here that seems to be disregarded.

 

Let me throw this back at JBriggs, because I can definitely smell his disgust for Santana and the reason Khris Davis was dealt, by the fact he wants to rid of him. I think Santana is an Allstar in the waiting as a batter. Certainly the best bat on the ML team past Braun forthcoming in OPS. Removing him from the team to me reduces the Brewers' chance of competing in 2017 moreso than adding Quintana. Every day Player vs every 5th day. Santana finished off September with 7HRs as a 23year old. From the 8th game on, his OPS never got below .700, even with his injuries. And finished just below .800OPS at .792.

 

For Reverse Reference. It took Davis til game 25 to crack the .700OPS mark and #37 before he stayed above it the rest of the season. Davis was 25 before even making it to the Brewers. Hit that 10HRs in Sept at age 27. Had 8HRs in Sept this year.

 

How does Santana not grow on you or anyone else to like? 23years old, 7HRs in Sept when finally getting regular playing time. Imagine what and where he can be by age 27? Whereas Davis is 5'10, Santana 6'5"...Leverage does some major things, ask Richie Sexson.

 

What a thievery by the White Sox!

 

 

Oh and going to dismiss some of Justin Turner signing since he is a QO receiver. Would cost the team the 2nd pick they have. TBD when the lottery is handled.

[MrTPlush]

Second, Santana is a major value here that seems to be disregarded.

 

Major value? I like the dude, but he does not have major value.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'll try to come up with 3moves the front office could make.

 

1. Nothing.

2. Nothing.

3. Find trade suitors for Kirk N, Scooter, Matt Garza, and or Wily Peralta. Plus the oldest BP guys like Moyer, or Torres.

 

Look, we obviously need Pitching immediately to help, even though we finished in top half of MLB in ERA, 8 of the next 9 below were AL teams which need a partial adjustment getting to bat the DH and all.

 

You're talking about trying to gain something that is scarce in availability. It's why we suggest finding those to take Guerra, Nelson, or Peralta. Even Garza and Anderson. It's a sellers market on Pitchers. I'd think we could offer up Guerra and Brinson and get Aaron Nola or Vince Velasguez from Philly. You'd add immediate SP help that is 7years or more younger. Types you'd expect to pitch better than Guerra moving forward, thinking his was more a fluke and their's one to build on.

 

Without moving Braun, you've got Broxton, Villar, Braun, Santana, Carter, Perez, Arcia, and Catcher for a batting lineup. Which when healthy and growth will produce above average results. Josh Hader and Jose Lopez could return to the staff at any moment. Add Brandon Woodruff. You get Davies, Velasquez or Nola, Nelson/Peralta/Garza to find opening for these 3. Maybe that's all it takes to be competitive above .500 baseball.

 

But my take is on the fact I think we are just to 2018 away from winning above .500 without doing anything drastic but waiting and properly disposing players when there is better or younger awaiting.

[MNBrew]

Justin Turner getting QO'd today does put quite a damper on that hypothetical signing -- for me it'd be enough to nix it in a heartbeat.

 

There's been some speculation about Luis Valbuena as a FA signing for 3B. If Scooter's moved, I could see that as being both more likely and also less costly than signing Turner.

 

Maybe this is a dumb question, but is Justin Turner's perceived value overinflated because he plays for the Dodgers and he's coming off a good year? I mean, is he a glitzy name in a manner similar to how Boston, the Yankees, and sometimes the Mets pay ridiculous salaries to keep guys they like whereas most any other market -- most teams' "real" market -- wouldn't pay some of those guys anywhere near what those 3 teams pay? It's about the most extreme example, but did the Yankees really think any other team was going to pay anywhere near the $25-ishM/yr. they paid A-Rod on his last extension (or was it an opt-out & re-sign?)?

 

(Edit was just for punctuation.)

[brewcrewdue80]

Second, Santana is a major value here that seems to be disregarded.

 

Major value? I like the dude, but he does not have major value.

 

I'll remind you of that comment when he gets his full season's chance. Keon Broxton had nothing on the ceiling Santana has, and look at his emergence over the course of just one year.

[MrTPlush]

Second, Santana is a major value here that seems to be disregarded.

 

Major value? I like the dude, but he does not have major value.

 

I'll remind you of that comment when he gets his full season's chance. Keon Broxton had nothing on the ceiling Santana has, and look at his emergence over the course of just one year.

 

OK? What does that prove? I could say that about any player. He doesn't have major value right now. Could he with a full healthy season? Sure, but that really isn't saying much.

[MrTPlush]

Justin Turner getting QO'd today does put quite a damper on that hypothetical signing -- for me it'd be enough to nix it in a heartbeat.

 

If we actually had a decent chance to compete next year and even better chances in the years following I would sacrifice our second pick in a heartbeat to fill a black hole at 3B.

 

However such scenario isn't really present.

[jerichoholicninja]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but is Justin Turner's perceived value overinflated because he plays for the Dodgers and he's coming off a good year? I mean, is he a glitzy name in a manner similar to how Boston, the Yankees, and sometimes the Mets pay ridiculous salaries to keep guys they like whereas most any other market -- most teams' "real" market -- wouldn't pay some of those guys anywhere near what those 3 teams pay. It's about the most extreme example, but did the Yankees really think any other team was going to pay anywhere near the $25-ishM/yr. they paid A-Rod on his last extension (or was it an opt-out & re-sign?)?

 

Turner has a 136 OPS+ over the last three years. Last year was actually his worse year of the three mostly because he tanked hard for the first couple months. Has nothing to do with market. He's one of the best free agent hitters this year.

[adambr2]

Justin Turner getting QO'd today does put quite a damper on that hypothetical signing -- for me it'd be enough to nix it in a heartbeat.

 

If we actually had a decent chance to compete next year and even better chances in the years following I would sacrifice our second pick in a heartbeat to fill a black hole at 3B.

 

However such scenario isn't really present.

 

Yeah I'm all about building through the draft, but given that our 1st round pick is protected, if there were a hypothetical scenario in which we had an opportunity to make a big push and sign someone the quality of Turner (there isn't this year) I certainly wouldn't let a 2nd round pick who will likely never even see the majors be the deciding factor in letting the deal fall apart.