Charlie Morton

[And That]

Nelson and Peralta are going to be 28 next season. Anderson will be 29. If any of them are going to change from what they currently are, it would take a pretty drastic adjustment. Like for Nelson, to stop giving people first base. For Peralta, to get in shape and find a slider. For Anderson, stop giving up home runs (he was 5th in HR/9 for pitchers with at least 150 IP).

 

That Anderson had one good month at the end of the season and Peralta had two, makes me worried that the Brewers forget about the early year terribleness. Time will tell if their late season successes can be replicated going forward. I'm dubious.

[MrTPlush]

Well I mean Charlie Morton made a major mechanical change and got better so why can't any of our guys have that hope?

 

This seems like the classic I am tired of watching what we currently have and just want to change it up. Even if it doesn't really improve anything. If we had a bad/young rotation and just wanted a veteran to fill a spot I could see this. Unfortunately we are loaded with experienced pitchers that are comparable or better than Morton.

 

I'd give him a non-garaunteed deal to come to spring training and hope the injury bug hits us bad. Other than that without 1-2 starters being traded there is no need for Morton here.

[ZBTMP]

Anderson was mediocre enough in the second half that they will probably not be ready to move on.

Which Anderson are you referring to? Because Chase Anderson put up a 3.02 ERA and 2.65 K/BB in the 2nd half of last season. That's a bit better than "mediocre".

 

He had a 4.44 FIP and a 4.37 xFIP. Would you prefer "lucky to not be mediocre"? Either way, its not very indicative of any kind of skills growth for evaluation of future potential.

[clancyphile]

So by 11 you mean 6. Got it.

 

Please see explanation about how this move has nothing to do with Josh Hader elsewhere in the thread. Morton is a better MLB pitcher than Wang.

 

You're saying Garza/Nelson/Peralta/Anderson are all obviously better than Morton? I don't think so. That group of pitchers is not close to good enough to not bring in competition.

 

Right now, I count 13 potential starters currently in-house for the Brewers for Spring Training/Opening Day 2017:

Jungmann

Garza

Nelson

Peralta

Anderson

Guerra

Suter

Wilkerson

Hader

Wang

Cravy

Woodruff (as a sleeper)

Burgos (outside shot)

 

By late 2017, I think you could add:

Ortiz

Bickford

Perrin

Lopez (comeback candidate)

Jorge Ortega (comeback candidate)

Adrian Ventura (outside shot)

 

Morton, as an extreme ground-ball pitcher, only intrigues me if he comes cheap. But I might look for some pitchers with similar GB/FB and GO/FO ratios for the bullpen. But for the rotation, I think the Brewers could deal Anderson, Guerra, and Garza, wait to see if Peralta and Nelson pull it together, and try the other seven out to see if they have a sleeper or three.

[MKE81]

I'm not opposed to Morton being signed but it doesn't make sense to me right now given what's on the current roster. Garza, Nelson, Guerra, Chase, Peralta, Davies are 6 guys in contention and half of them will probably be dealt by season's end. Hader will take a spot. Maybe Lopez takes a spot. Jungmann, Suter, Cravy, etc aren't taking rotation spots in 2017 or beyond. Wang, Wilkerson, Woodruff, Burgos aren't in contention for rotation spots to start the year. Bickford, Perrin, Ortega, Ventura won't be up by season's end (Ortiz maybe but even then i don't see it unless it's a few starts at the end). Morton could be a fit BUT people have to be moved and some of those people need to continue to pitch well in the first half OR the entire season otherwise we're just cutting them and eating salary. If it was easy to trade Garza, Peralta, etc before the season and get what they think they should be able to get for them then this discussion isn't an issue. But, that's not the case right now. Chase was great the final couple months, Garza bounced back when he was healthy at the end and pitched to how he has his entire career. IF he's healthy he'll still be a 3.7-3.8 pitcher. Peralta bounced back and his velocity was up after called back up. These guys can all improve their value in the first half.

[rwa12]

So by 11 you mean 6. Got it.

 

Please see explanation about how this move has nothing to do with Josh Hader elsewhere in the thread. Morton is a better MLB pitcher than Wang.

 

You're saying Garza/Nelson/Peralta/Anderson are all obviously better than Morton? I don't think so. That group of pitchers is not close to good enough to not bring in competition.

 

Right now, I count 13 potential starters currently in-house for the Brewers for Spring Training/Opening Day 2017:

Jungmann

Garza

Nelson

Peralta

Anderson

Guerra

Suter

Wilkerson

Hader

Wang

Cravy

Woodruff (as a sleeper)

Burgos (outside shot)

 

By late 2017, I think you could add:

Ortiz

Bickford

Perrin

Lopez (comeback candidate)

Jorge Ortega (comeback candidate)

Adrian Ventura (outside shot)

 

Morton, as an extreme ground-ball pitcher, only intrigues me if he comes cheap. But I might look for some pitchers with similar GB/FB and GO/FO ratios for the bullpen. But for the rotation, I think the Brewers could deal Anderson, Guerra, and Garza, wait to see if Peralta and Nelson pull it together, and try the other seven out to see if they have a sleeper or three.

 

All that, and you didn't even include Davies. So the list would be deeper. I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, but I think if you can get reclamation projects like Morton cheap, they are worth a shot.

[Roderick]

...... but I think if you can get reclamation projects like Morton cheap, they are worth a shot.

 

If you feel a need to have a veteran reclamation project on the roster to build up their value, then consider Garza as exactly that. And he is even cheaper, because as a sunk cost, he is free.

 

We don't need two of them on the roster when we should be evaluating and moving on the other starting pitchers on the staff.

 

And if you want Morton for the bullpen, fine, you better sign him at bullpen dollars then.

[MrTPlush]

...... but I think if you can get reclamation projects like Morton cheap, they are worth a shot.

 

If you feel a need to have a veteran reclamation project on the roster to build up their value, then consider Garza as exactly that. And he is even cheaper, because as a sunk cost, he is free.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[rwa12]

Saying you won't look at Morton because you have Garza is bad practice, to me at least. I'm not advocating a long term contract, I'm for a one year deal with a club option, though. I would hope DS is considering all options, I would hope our prospects force his hand at some point, but I don't think you can really make an argument that any of them are currently. Our current rotation is nothing special. I like Davies, but every other member should be readily replaceable. I do not believe that all replacements will come from within. History tells me they won't. If you can get Morton, or someone of his ilk, on a prove yourself contract, I'd do it. Not every player added to the team will be for "the future".

[MrTPlush]

I like Davies, but every other member should be readily replaceable.

 

Sure they can be replacable....but by Morton? Nah, thanks for the offer. I still don't get what Charlie Morton is even providing us. There is little if any upside in him. Mind you when I say upside I am referring to his fature value, most notably trade value since thats all he would have a chance to provide us. So when I say upside I am not referring to just a stat line, but also age and price of contract.

 

Davies- more upside/better currently

Guerra- more upside/better currently

Nelson- more upside/comparable

Anderson- same upside/comparable

Peralta- more upside/comparable

Garza- same upside/comparable

 

So who gets the boot for Morton?

[adambr2]

I like Davies, but every other member should be readily replaceable.

 

Sure they can be replacable....but by Morton? Nah, thanks for the offer. I still don't get what Charlie Morton is even providing us. There is little if any upside in him. Mind you when I say upside I am referring to his fature value, most notably trade value since thats all he would have a chance to provide us. So when I say upside I am not referring to just a stat line, but also age and price of contract.

 

Davies- more upside/better currently

Guerra- more upside/better currently

Nelson- more upside/comparable

Anderson- same upside/comparable

Peralta- more upside/comparable

Garza- same upside/comparable

 

So who gets the boot for Morton?

 

I agree. I really don't get it. Yes, not every player acquired is going to be for the future, but there's very little point to adding an old low upside player with a free agent price tag to the rotation at this point in the rebuild, especially one that is pretty indistinguishable from the ones we already have.

 

Are we just arguing over price point? I'll take Morton on a 2M a year deal as a bullpen groundball specialist piece for a couple years if that's all we're haggling over, but that will never happen. For 7-8M a year? No way, makes no sense to me.

 

No matter what you think of Anderson, Peralta, and Nelson, they all have performed well enough and have enough upside to at least be competing for a rotation spot next year. Maybe Jungmann gets another shot. Maybe they protect Wang from the Rule 5 and want to give him a shot. Maybe Hader is up by July, maybe even Woodruff.

 

There are too many possibilities and candidates for starting pitchers who might be a part of our future to be burning 20% of our rotation on a guy that we'll feel obligated to keep in there if we give him 7-8M a year. Audition the young guys and see what sticks.

[And That]

So who gets the boot for Morton?

Whomever is injured, traded, or awful in spring training. The odds of one of those guys not starting on the DL are not great. Nelson and Anderson have options. And if you're content with those 6 guys as your starting pitchers next year, then that's fine, but to me there's way too much that could go wrong with that set of pitchers. I think standing pat and hoping for the best from those guys is foolish.

 

MLBTR has Morton going to the Royals for 1 year/$8 million, FWIW.

 

Morton, 33 this month, is an under-the-radar rotation candidate who will sign a one or two-year deal. The Pirates traded Morton to the Phillies in December 2015, but he suffered a season-ending hamstring injury in late April. Assuming the medicals check out, the groundballing righty should retain the skills for a sub-4.00 ERA in 2017. The Phillies could bring him back, or the Royals, Braves, Reds, Rockies, Astros, Angels, Marlins, Padres, Mariners, Rangers, and Athletics could be matches.

 

Mr. Lucky To Have An ERA Under 4.00 indeed.

 

$8 million is more than I'd give him, but it wouldn't surprise me if that ended up being a good deal for the team that signed him.

[adambr2]

Morton is headed to the Astros. 2 years, 14M plus incentives.

[JohnBriggs12]

Morton just signed a 2 year deal with Astros, no terms disclosed.

 

Brewers just need to be patient and see what's out there around the end of January and add a veteran arm or two on minor league deals to compete in ST. Signing guys like Morton to major league deals just puts another guy in front of a young arm that could be ready.

[adambr2]

Gotta say, I totally agree with Briggs on this one. Any SP that we sign in November is probably not the right decision this offseason. There's no urgency or need to be aggressive in free agency, so it's better to sit back and see how the market develops.

 

Depending on how the rest of the offseason develops, January is the right time to kick the tires on what's out there and possibly bargain shop for an undervalued flyer or reclamation project.

[And That]

Astros got him for lower AAV than his 2016 salary, and though the 2 years is risky, I think this will turn out well for them.

[reillymcshane]

Astros got him for lower AAV than his 2016 salary, and though the 2 years is risky, I think this will turn out well for them.

If Morton avoids injuries, I think it's a great deal for them. As noted on mlbtraderumors.com, Morton is really tough on righties, and that should play well in his new park as it's a really short porch out in left. Again, the key will be staying healthy.

[StearnsFTW]

2/14 is fine for a contending team. Seems fair.

 

I guess I wouldn't really have cared if we had signed him. It's a short, low-money contract.