Pace of Play Remains a Problem

[MrTPlush]

The simplest and least radical thing being that a pitcher must face at least two batters unless the end of an inning is reached.

 

Also shortening the time given to teams checking on when to challenge will not negatively impact the game.

 

And yet that is still very radical. Who would even support such an idea? Are either the players or owners going to get behind that?

 

Congrats you just shaved 20 seconds off the length of the game.

 

Do things get ridiculous sometimes? Of course but it is impossible to say one mound visit is warranted and that one is a waste of time. How do you decide when a throw over is excessive? You can't possibly limit such things. The last thing I want to see is a pitcher give up a homer and when asked about it later he wanted a mound visit, but wan't allowed one. What if you hit your max amount of step offs and a bug flies into your eye? Do you just pitch it blind?

 

Sometimes you just have to accept things as a part of the game.

[owbc]

Bottom line, most of the reason games are longer in modern baseball is all the pitching changes. Nothing you can do about that. .

 

I think you (and others here) are making conclusions based on false assumptions. Extra pitching changes are not the main problem.

 

We've gone from 2.6 to 3.9 pitchers per team per game (from the 1970s to 2014). So we're only seeing an average of 2-3 additional pitching changes per game. A pitching change is required to take 2:30 but it's probably closer to 3:00 when counting the mound visit. However, not all of the additional pitching changes occur in the middle of an inning. So the pitching changes are probably adding 5-7 minutes to the game time on average, maybe 10 minutes at absolute worst. It's a pause of a known duration that allows fans to take a break or divert their attention elsewhere.

 

The average time of game has increased by ~25 minutes over that time span. So there is another 15-20 minutes in there of messing around that isn't related to pitching changes. This is time when I'm supposed to be paying attention to the game, but it is literally an extra 15-20 minutes of players doing absolutely nothing.

 

The MLB rulebook (8.04) already specifies a limit of 12 seconds once the pitcher has the ball. We wouldn't even have to change the rules to speed up the time of game, just enforce the one already on the books!

[jerichoholicninja]

Limit warmup pitches on the field to two after a mid inning change. There's no reason a guy needs to throw 8 (or might be 10, not sure) pitches on the field to be ready. That's what the bullpen is for. That would eliminate the commercial break and take a few minutes off of the game time.

[logan82]

Limit warmup pitches on the field to two after a mid inning change. There's no reason a guy needs to throw 8 (or might be 10, not sure) pitches on the field to be ready. That's what the bullpen is for. That would eliminate the commercial break and take a few minutes off of the game time.

Is the pitcher pushing the time in that case or is the network pushing a commercial and the pitcher waiting?

[MrTPlush]

Limit warmup pitches on the field to two after a mid inning change. There's no reason a guy needs to throw 8 (or might be 10, not sure).

 

The mound is different and the feel in general is different. It takes more than just two pitches to get comfortable and make the mound how you want it(if need be).

[Oxy]

You are looking at the length of games in the postseason. That is extremely misleading. Way morepitching changes than a normal game by a lot.

 

Then eliminate mid-inning pitching changes. For all games. Whoever starts the inning has to finish it unless he gets injured. Offense should increase, late inning lead changes should happen more frequently and it cuts out a lot of the boring time.

[jerichoholicninja]

Limit warmup pitches on the field to two after a mid inning change. There's no reason a guy needs to throw 8 (or might be 10, not sure).

 

The mound is different and the feel in general is different. It takes more than just two pitches to get comfortable and make the mound how you want it(if need be).

 

That's why you get two pitches. You're a professional. You should be able to pitch on a flat piece of concrete in cleats. You don't need to take 3 minutes to get every piece of dirt exactly where you want it.

[pitchleague]

This has been a fascinating discussion.

 

Re: limiting calling time as the batter to one/two times per at bat, what if a batter has used his allotment of timeouts and a wasp/gnat/guy in the stands with a laser pointer/etc. distracts the batter? He can't call time and just has to grin and bear it? I don't think so.

 

As for the limiting throws to first base on pick off attempts, what if, after reaching the allotment of throws, the runner can only go so far as some pre-chalked line on the infield or the edge of the infield grass? Yeah, it's kind of "softball-esque" with their double bases at first but it would at least limit a runner from just getting some 50 foot lead.

[MrTPlush]

As for the limiting throws to first base on pick off attempts, what if, after reaching the allotment of throws, the runner can only go so far as some pre-chalked line on the infield or the edge of the infield grass? Yeah, it's kind of "softball-esque" with their double bases at first but it would at least limit a runner from just getting some 50 foot lead.

 

Wait...what? Can you elaborate on what you are trying to avoid and how? I don't quite understand what exactly you want to be done.

[danzig6767]

From at least the TV side of things, I have a very simple solution to long drawn out games. I DVR all of them.

 

Say a Brewers, Packers or World Series game is starting at 7 PM. I'll watch some other show i've recorded for about an hour or so, then turn on the game i wanted to watch. Boom, all commercials fast forwarded right through.

 

It's amazing how much easier it is to sit through football games with tons of replay reviews, injury timeouts, and baseball games with numerous pitching changes when you can fast forward right through all of the commercials which then follow.

 

Sometimes i'll be at peoples houses who don't have a DVR and it reminds me of just how happy i am to have one because sitting through endless commercials is torture unless in a festive party environment. That doesn't even include the wonderful ability to pause anything you are watching for whatever reason comes up.

[MrTPlush]

From at least the TV side of things, I have a very simple solution to long drawn out games. I DVR all of them.

 

That is a fantastic idea if you don't care if you watch them live. However for most it is something they prefer and even more so as older fans, erm, pass on.

[Bombers]

The MLB rulebook (8.04) already specifies a limit of 12 seconds once the pitcher has the ball. We wouldn't even have to change the rules to speed up the time of game, just enforce the one already on the books!

 

I agree with this. If they inserted a play clock and forced pitchers to throw a pitch within 12 seconds, that would be a good start. But they would have to complement that with how many time outs a pitcher / batter / team gets per game.

[Bombers]

This has been a fascinating discussion.

 

Re: limiting calling time as the batter to one/two times per at bat, what if a batter has used his allotment of timeouts and a wasp/gnat/guy in the stands with a laser pointer/etc. distracts the batter? He can't call time and just has to grin and bear it? I don't think so.

 

That's kind of the point, these guys are allowed an unlimited allotment of timeouts so any gnat, guy yelling in the stands / wasp / fly and they get to call time out. Whether it is real or imagined. Time out is granted. And I am going to go with the vast majority of time outs are due to "strategy" ... To me, it should to be limited. The pitch sequence in this thread is a perfect example of the abuse that is allowed. And sure, these are playoff games, but those types of at-bats happen all season long.

[danzig6767]

From at least the TV side of things, I have a very simple solution to long drawn out games. I DVR all of them.

That is a fantastic idea if you don't care if you watch them live. However for most it is something they prefer and even more so as older fans, erm, pass on.

I'm basically watching the games live, just about an hour later, not the next day. By the time the game is over, i've pretty much caught up with the live feed, all i did was allow myself to avoid having to watch about an hour of commercials, instead just hitting the fast forward button.

 

Sometimes these games, baseball or football end up having so many commercial breaks that even after waiting an hour to start watching and fast forwarding through all of the commercials, i catch up to the live feed before the game is over. That's how many stoppages of play and commercials there are. But hey, i get that some don't mind watching all of those commercials.

[owbc]

DVRs keep guys like Manfred awake at night. Goodbye to TV revenues if that becomes more widespread. The pace of play problem would be solved ASAP.

[FVBrewerFan]

Meh, vast majority of fans want to watch sporting events live. DVR has been around for a long time, so I don't know why anything would change now.

[JimH5]

DVR might be a workaround for some people, but only because the games are too slow. I'm fine with important post-season games going on and on, but the regular season games are individually unimportant and need to move along faster.

 

Baseball in the 70s and 80s had fewer strikeouts, so more action was happening on the field. There were more stolen base attempts and fewer walks. As a live spectator or tv spectator, it was so much better. Games cruised along with more onfield action in less time. Now a guy is lauded for working out a walk, but how entertaining is it?

[MrTPlush]

I don't think Manfred even thinks about DVRs. The people that record a game for the sole purpose to skip commercials are a needle in a haystack.

[MadThinker88]

I don't think Manfred even thinks about DVRs. The people that record a game for the sole purpose to skip commercials are a needle in a haystack.

 

But those numbers are growing....

[MrTPlush]

I don't think Manfred even thinks about DVRs. The people that record a game for the sole purpose to skip commercials are a needle in a haystack.

 

But those numbers are growing....

 

And if they grow enough skipping channels on your DVR will suddenly not work with your remote. The only reason it isn't done now is because the cost of angering people by blocking the ability to fast forward is greater than the cost of lost revenue due to people skipping those channels.

 

You are either going to pay through commercials or your going to open up your wallet. They are getting their money regardless.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Interestingly, I went and watched the 1988 Kirk Gibson/Dennis Eckersly at bat this morning. That was an 8 pitch at bat, and from the time he got into the batter's box, until the time he put the ball in play, it was just a shade over 6 minutes. There were a handful of throws over to first (four I think, I'd have to go back and recount)

[monty57]

The main reason baseball games take longer is that there is greater focus on OBP, so hitters are taking a lot more pitches, getting on base more, and forcing opposing teams to the pen earlier. If you want to shorten games, penalize hitters for taking pitches. This would be best done by making the strike zone bigger. Pitchers will be much more dominant, but time of game will go down as hitters are forced to swing at more pitches and get more outs.

 

I'd personally rather just watch an extra ten or fifteen minutes of baseball, but that would solve the perceived problem of the thread.

[jerichoholicninja]

The main reason baseball games take longer is that there is greater focus on OBP, so hitters are taking a lot more pitches, getting on base more, and forcing opposing teams to the pen earlier. If you want to shorten games, penalize hitters for taking pitches. This would be best done by making the strike zone bigger. Pitchers will be much more dominant, but time of game will go down as hitters are forced to swing at more pitches and get more outs.

 

I'd personally rather just watch an extra ten or fifteen minutes of baseball, but that would solve the perceived problem of the thread.

 

I've felt that making the strike zone wider would be great for baseball. Batters can get a hit on a pitch that's an 1/8 inch off the plate just as well as one that just nicks the corner. It might make for a slight dip in offense at first but I don't think it would dramatically effect the game. It would speed up the game as more strikes would be called and it might even cut down on strikeouts if batters finally start to decide the swing at the first pitch cookie down the middle since they have more plate to cover. The obvious problem is how do you define a wider strike zone without making the plate bigger but I guess you could do that.

[MrTPlush]

The main reason baseball games take longer is that there is greater focus on OBP, so hitters are taking a lot more pitches, getting on base more, and forcing opposing teams to the pen earlier. If you want to shorten games, penalize hitters for taking pitches. This would be best done by making the strike zone bigger. Pitchers will be much more dominant, but time of game will go down as hitters are forced to swing at more pitches and get more outs.

 

I'd personally rather just watch an extra ten or fifteen minutes of baseball, but that would solve the perceived problem of the thread.

 

I've felt that making the strike zone wider would be great for baseball.

 

You know what is worse than long games? Low scoring games. Casual fans want to see runs being scored and a bigger strike zone will do the exact opposite. I also think it would be pretty hard to widen it. The edge of the plate makes a very distinct line between ball/strike. If it is wider than that you are going by an invisible line. Probably wouldn't be consistently called(less than currently).

[owbc]

The main reason baseball games take longer is that there is greater focus on OBP, so hitters are taking a lot more pitches, getting on base more, and forcing opposing teams to the pen earlier. If you want to shorten games, penalize hitters for taking pitches. This would be best done by making the strike zone bigger. Pitchers will be much more dominant, but time of game will go down as hitters are forced to swing at more pitches and get more outs.

 

I'd personally rather just watch an extra ten or fifteen minutes of baseball, but that would solve the perceived problem of the thread.

 

You're solving a problem that doesn't exist. There is no increase in OBP (there was in the 90s but we are now back at 1970s-1980s values).

 

MLB

1974: BB%: 8.7% OBP: .324

2016: BB%: 8.2% OBP: .322