Pace of Play Remains a Problem

[MrTPlush]

There is also the issue of "I can throw to first base as many times as I want" problem. The pitcher can literally throw there 20 times without any repercussion. (And I have seen multiple times where on the 4th or 5th time in a row of throwing to 1B they finally pick the guy off.) Once again, there should be a limit.

 

How could you possibly limit that? After the pitcher hits the limit time to take a giant lead because he can't throw over. Not going to work.

[Oldcity]

Anyone who watched the last two WS games and didn't think they were great probably just isn't a baseball fan. Sure there are longer pitch sequences, more changes, etc., but that's only because the ramifications of each pitch are so much greater than during the regular season. Those just add more drama/tension anyway. This has been the best World Series in some time. Manfred keeps trying to fix things that aren't broken.

[JackNicholson1974]

I never understood all the hand wringing over the length of baseball games, especially as the length of football games has gotten longer and longer.

 

It used to be a football game started at noon ended by 3. Now the 3 oclock games start at 325 because of the constant bleed over and the 325 games go right up until 7.

 

I never understood why the time of a baseball game bothers so many people. I give my dad a hard time (he is 62) because whenever we go to a game, as soon as we sit down, he starts complaining about what time we will leave and how long the game will take. Really?? Why the heck are we even here Dad??? Also, he insists that we arrive at the game almost as soon as the doors open, and we sit there for 45 minutes staring at an empty field before first pitch.

 

Here is baseball's problem. Their fans are old. Im not going to lie. Their fans have always been old, and so long as there are old people out and about they will continue to be baseball fans. And one thing old people hate is being up late. So they gripe about how long the game takes.

 

If the time that the cat-and-mouse game of pitcher vs. runner taking a lead, late in the game with the score close bothers you perhaps we can balance a rule that completely prohibit throwing over to first with the runners not being allowed to take a lead. Just like little league. They can leave as the pitcher starts their delivery. Or maybe we arent as big of baseball fans as we think we are.

[monty57]

Fox Sports 1 averaged 4.2 million viewers between 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET to claim the top spot. Fox News finished second with 3.3 million viewers and CNN finished third with 2.2 million primetime viewers.

 

The MLB playoffs are putting up huge ratings number, while NFL ratings are plummeting.

 

Some of the things being thrown around here would fundamentally change the way the game is played, and that would all be to fix a perceived problem that doesn't even seem to exist.

[tmwiese55]

Well, you have to grant the WS ratings are greatly bumped this year due to an anomaly in the Cubs. Can't bank on this every year.

[And That]

Eliminate the DH. I know it only helps pace of play in the AL, but more pitchers hitting = more quick outs.

 

Mercy rule. If a team is up by 10 runs and the game is official (5 innings), game over.

 

15 second time limit to challenge a call.

[MrTPlush]

Mercy rule. If a team is up by 10 runs and the game is official (5 innings), game over.

 

Another idea that doesn't make financial sense so it makes no sense. Regardless a blowout shortens the game a lot because everyone turns it off half way through.

[MrTPlush]

The funniest thing about Manfred wanting to shorten games is the fact he also wants more offense. More offense would make games a lot longer.

[trwi7]

Well, you have to grant the WS ratings are greatly bumped this year due to an anomaly in the Cubs. Can't bank on this every year.

 

The World Series killed the NFL in ratings last night and that game was two huge markets and national teams in Dallas and Philadelphia.

[Bombers]

There is also the issue of "I can throw to first base as many times as I want" problem. The pitcher can literally throw there 20 times without any repercussion. (And I have seen multiple times where on the 4th or 5th time in a row of throwing to 1B they finally pick the guy off.) Once again, there should be a limit.

 

Say a pitcher reaches the limit. There's nothing stopping a runner at that point from just getting an 80 foot lead knowing that the pitcher can't throw over to pick him off. Sounds good in theory. Impossible to implement.

Say you limit it to 4 throws. On the first throw, safe, second throw, safe. Well on the 3rd throw, he better be darn well sure he is going to pick him off, otherwise you are down to your final throw and if he is safe. And if you throw a 4th time I would just award him 2nd base. I understand this is a drastic change, but I am open to just about anything at this point. As I said before I just don't like the unlimited I can throw to first as much as I want. Additionally, if they do limit the number of times a pitcher can step off the rubber, this will just become the new way of stepping of the mound. With a runner on, they will just step off and throw to a base with a runner.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Well, you have to grant the WS ratings are greatly bumped this year due to an anomaly in the Cubs. Can't bank on this every year.

 

The World Series killed the NFL in ratings last night and that game was two huge markets and national teams in Dallas and Philadelphia.

 

while it's impressive based on TV ratings history, you're comparing what amounts to the super bowl of all super bowl games for the MLB World Series (Weekend night game at Wrigley, possible title-clinching game against the team with a 108-yr title drought fighting for its life) against a Week 8 NFL regular season game. If MLB doesn't win that ratings battle against the NFL, they're basically hockey.

 

The NFL ratings are suffering due to several factors to begin with, combine that with what is truly a unique world series with the Cubs in it (where just as many people tune in hoping to see them lose as do hoping to see them win), and you're going to have those type of ratings.

 

For a different comparison, Super Bowl 50 this past February drew a 49 rating compared to last night's 15.3 rating that WS game 5 drew. The NFL is still the TV ratings king, and while they are suffering this year they still lead by a wide margin.

[Bombers]

Well, you have to grant the WS ratings are greatly bumped this year due to an anomaly in the Cubs. Can't bank on this every year.

 

The World Series killed the NFL in ratings last night and that game was two huge markets and national teams in Dallas and Philadelphia.

The Chicago Cubs playing in the World Series with standing room only tickets for $1800 should generate a little more demand vs a week 8 NFL matchup between the Cowboys/Eagles. Sunday Night Football had a 16.82 and the World Series had a 21.54. Baseball is seeing the highest ratings in 7 years, which coincidentally was Yankee's / Phillies. The NFL has a game every week go over 20 million viewers, for which for baseball see's as it's "highest" ratings. Like I said, I feel there is an issue with the general public trying to watch these games and I agree with OWBC and his break down on the Champan/Kipnis at bat. that is a little over the top for the in-bat strategery

 

I also think a detriment is having the championship series being played on cable TV. As more and more cut the cord, baseball needs to get out of the playoffs on cable TV business.

[BuckyBrewer61]

There are a number of ways the game could be sped up...just don't expect that eliminating a source of revenue is one of them.

 

You must have missed the part of my post indicating MLB should seek out advertisers to "sponsor" the 7-9th innings commercial free - there would be tons of time for short ads/reads for a sponsor or TV network during that part of the game for plugs. I doubt MLB would lose much revenue at all, in fact it would probably make all the commercial spots in earlier innings more valuable.

 

Didn't miss anything...they can (and often already do) do that now - and keep the commercials too. It's an interesting idea, just don't get your hopes up about MLB removing a major source of revenue, even if the idea is to replace it with something else.

 

People complain about length of games now, but what will they say when "that home run is brought to you by Cialis! Up, up, and away with Cialis!"

 

I think you underestimate how much in-your-face advertising it would take to replace a HUGE source of MLB revenue in commercials.

[logan82]

I don't buy the revenue argument. The game has the same number of commercials if it takes 4 hours or 2 hours. The best way to increase revenue is to get more fans watching the game--which can only be accomplished if they stay interested--especially in the late innings which is the most exciting part of the game.

 

I also don't find anything about the strategy side of the game to be compelling. The main strategy is to stall the game as long as possible. Completely agree with the suggestion to limit time outs and mound visits.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapmans-top-of-the-eighth-was-designed-to-make-1788404600

 

This sequence especially is just ridiculous:

1:20: Chapman prepares to throw his first pitch to Kipnis.

1:27: Chapman reaches for the mound and steps out of the stretch.

1:47: Pickoff attempt.

2:07: Pickoff attempt.

2:38: Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

3:17: Chapman throws his first pitch to Kipnis, a 100 mph fastball outside.

3:36: Pickoff attempt.

4:12: Chapman throws 98 mph outside, Contreras unsuccessfully attempt to throw out Davis as he steals second.

4:55: Chapman winds up in the stretch, steps off the mound as Davis moves to get a big lead to third.

5:19: Chapman again jumps out of the stretch to attempt to pick off Davis at second.

5:25: Mound conference with Chapman, Javier Baez, and Willson Contreras.

6:05: Chapman throws a 99 mph fastball outside for a swinging strike.

6:56: Chapman throws a 100 mph fastball outside for another swinging strike

7:30: Chapman winds up, Baez signals to him as he looks back, Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

8:02: Chapman throws a 102 mph fastball outside for a ball.

8:30: Kipnis flies out to Ben Zobrist

Where is the issue with any of that? The pace of the game changes when guys are on base. Making any changes could severely hamper things for the defense.

 

Edit: Unless you want to make it so no one can steal bases. Actually let's go with that. If pitchers don't have to go into the stretch or worry about guys stealing then that would speed up the pace of play.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I don't buy the revenue argument. The game has the same number of commercials if it takes 4 hours or 2 hours. The best way to increase revenue is to get more fans watching the game--which can only be accomplished if they stay interested--especially in the late innings which is the most exciting part of the game.

 

I also don't find anything about the strategy side of the game to be compelling. The main strategy is to stall the game as long as possible. Completely agree with the suggestion to limit time outs and mound visits.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapmans-top-of-the-eighth-was-designed-to-make-1788404600

 

This sequence especially is just ridiculous:

1:20: Chapman prepares to throw his first pitch to Kipnis.

1:27: Chapman reaches for the mound and steps out of the stretch.

1:47: Pickoff attempt.

2:07: Pickoff attempt.

2:38: Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

3:17: Chapman throws his first pitch to Kipnis, a 100 mph fastball outside.

3:36: Pickoff attempt.

4:12: Chapman throws 98 mph outside, Contreras unsuccessfully attempt to throw out Davis as he steals second.

4:55: Chapman winds up in the stretch, steps off the mound as Davis moves to get a big lead to third.

5:19: Chapman again jumps out of the stretch to attempt to pick off Davis at second.

5:25: Mound conference with Chapman, Javier Baez, and Willson Contreras.

6:05: Chapman throws a 99 mph fastball outside for a swinging strike.

6:56: Chapman throws a 100 mph fastball outside for another swinging strike

7:30: Chapman winds up, Baez signals to him as he looks back, Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

8:02: Chapman throws a 102 mph fastball outside for a ball.

8:30: Kipnis flies out to Ben Zobrist

Where is the issue with any of that? The pace of the game changes when guys are on base. Making any changes could severely hamper things for the defense.

 

Edit: Unless you want to make it so no one can steal bases. Actually let's go with that. If pitchers don't have to go into the stretch or worry about guys stealing then that would speed up the pace of play.

 

That 1 AB took 7 minutes and 10 seconds...if every AB took that long we'd be talking about a 6.5 hour game. That is ridiculous

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't buy the revenue argument. The game has the same number of commercials if it takes 4 hours or 2 hours. The best way to increase revenue is to get more fans watching the game--which can only be accomplished if they stay interested--especially in the late innings which is the most exciting part of the game.

 

I also don't find anything about the strategy side of the game to be compelling. The main strategy is to stall the game as long as possible. Completely agree with the suggestion to limit time outs and mound visits.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapmans-top-of-the-eighth-was-designed-to-make-1788404600

 

This sequence especially is just ridiculous:

1:20: Chapman prepares to throw his first pitch to Kipnis.

1:27: Chapman reaches for the mound and steps out of the stretch.

1:47: Pickoff attempt.

2:07: Pickoff attempt.

2:38: Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

3:17: Chapman throws his first pitch to Kipnis, a 100 mph fastball outside.

3:36: Pickoff attempt.

4:12: Chapman throws 98 mph outside, Contreras unsuccessfully attempt to throw out Davis as he steals second.

4:55: Chapman winds up in the stretch, steps off the mound as Davis moves to get a big lead to third.

5:19: Chapman again jumps out of the stretch to attempt to pick off Davis at second.

5:25: Mound conference with Chapman, Javier Baez, and Willson Contreras.

6:05: Chapman throws a 99 mph fastball outside for a swinging strike.

6:56: Chapman throws a 100 mph fastball outside for another swinging strike

7:30: Chapman winds up, Baez signals to him as he looks back, Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

8:02: Chapman throws a 102 mph fastball outside for a ball.

8:30: Kipnis flies out to Ben Zobrist

 

Where is the issue with any of that? The pace of the game changes when guys are on base. Making any changes could severely hamper things for the defense.

 

Edit: Unless you want to make it so no one can steal bases. Actually let's go with that. If pitchers don't have to go into the stretch or worry about guys stealing then that would speed up the pace of play.

 

That 1 AB took 7 minutes and 10 seconds...if every AB took that long we'd be talking about a 6.5 hour game. That is ridiculous

 

Not every at bat has runners on base nor does every baserunner require that amount of attention. I too find it annoying when a pitcher constantly throws over but I would never want a rule that would limit how often it can happen.

[reillymcshane]

I don't buy the revenue argument. The game has the same number of commercials if it takes 4 hours or 2 hours. The best way to increase revenue is to get more fans watching the game--which can only be accomplished if they stay interested--especially in the late innings which is the most exciting part of the game.

 

I also don't find anything about the strategy side of the game to be compelling. The main strategy is to stall the game as long as possible. Completely agree with the suggestion to limit time outs and mound visits.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapmans-top-of-the-eighth-was-designed-to-make-1788404600

 

This sequence especially is just ridiculous:

1:20: Chapman prepares to throw his first pitch to Kipnis.

1:27: Chapman reaches for the mound and steps out of the stretch.

1:47: Pickoff attempt.

2:07: Pickoff attempt.

2:38: Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

3:17: Chapman throws his first pitch to Kipnis, a 100 mph fastball outside.

3:36: Pickoff attempt.

4:12: Chapman throws 98 mph outside, Contreras unsuccessfully attempt to throw out Davis as he steals second.

4:55: Chapman winds up in the stretch, steps off the mound as Davis moves to get a big lead to third.

5:19: Chapman again jumps out of the stretch to attempt to pick off Davis at second.

5:25: Mound conference with Chapman, Javier Baez, and Willson Contreras.

6:05: Chapman throws a 99 mph fastball outside for a swinging strike.

6:56: Chapman throws a 100 mph fastball outside for another swinging strike

7:30: Chapman winds up, Baez signals to him as he looks back, Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

8:02: Chapman throws a 102 mph fastball outside for a ball.

8:30: Kipnis flies out to Ben Zobrist

Yikes. 7 hours and 10 minutes for one batter. Brutal.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Not every at bat has runners on base nor does every baserunner require that amount of attention. I too find it annoying when a pitcher constantly throws over but I would never want a rule that would limit how often it can happen.

 

I don't think we need a specific rule, but at the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with (at some point) an umpire simply saying "hey, let's play some baseball here". 8 minutes for a 6 pitch at bat is way beyond absurd. I know it's the world series, I know every pitch is important. I know what's at stake. But 8 minutes for a 6 pitch at bat is ludicrous. I have no problem with an umpire just stepping out and saying 'hey. Let's do this!" and not granting time or a mound trip.

[monty57]

Say you limit it to 4 throws. On the first throw, safe, second throw, safe. Well on the 3rd throw, he better be darn well sure he is going to pick him off, otherwise you are down to your final throw and if he is safe. And if you throw a 4th time I would just award him 2nd base. I understand this is a drastic change, but I am open to just about anything at this point. As I said before I just don't like the unlimited I can throw to first as much as I want. Additionally, if they do limit the number of times a pitcher can step off the rubber, this will just become the new way of stepping of the mound. With a runner on, they will just step off and throw to a base with a runner.

 

Well, I guess we could just load the lineup into a computer simulator prior to the game, sing the national anthem, and tell the fans who won the simulation.

 

It sounds like you would prefer to watch home run derby baseball. I personally prefer to watch games where some "boring" strategy is part of the game. Disrupting timing and throwing the other guy off is a big part of baseball.

[Fear The Chorizo]

To me you can't limit number of pickoff throws, but I think you can limit the number of times a pitcher steps off the rubber just to basically call time, or be more stringent on ranting time to a hitter once they get in the batters box. There definitely needs to be a limit on mound visits/conferences. I think 1 per inning per pitcher is allowable if it doesn't involve a coach from the dugout.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't buy the revenue argument. The game has the same number of commercials if it takes 4 hours or 2 hours. The best way to increase revenue is to get more fans watching the game--which can only be accomplished if they stay interested--especially in the late innings which is the most exciting part of the game.

 

I also don't find anything about the strategy side of the game to be compelling. The main strategy is to stall the game as long as possible. Completely agree with the suggestion to limit time outs and mound visits.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapmans-top-of-the-eighth-was-designed-to-make-1788404600

 

This sequence especially is just ridiculous:

1:20: Chapman prepares to throw his first pitch to Kipnis.

1:27: Chapman reaches for the mound and steps out of the stretch.

1:47: Pickoff attempt.

2:07: Pickoff attempt.

2:38: Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

3:17: Chapman throws his first pitch to Kipnis, a 100 mph fastball outside.

3:36: Pickoff attempt.

4:12: Chapman throws 98 mph outside, Contreras unsuccessfully attempt to throw out Davis as he steals second.

4:55: Chapman winds up in the stretch, steps off the mound as Davis moves to get a big lead to third.

5:19: Chapman again jumps out of the stretch to attempt to pick off Davis at second.

5:25: Mound conference with Chapman, Javier Baez, and Willson Contreras.

6:05: Chapman throws a 99 mph fastball outside for a swinging strike.

6:56: Chapman throws a 100 mph fastball outside for another swinging strike

7:30: Chapman winds up, Baez signals to him as he looks back, Contreras comes out for a mound visit.

8:02: Chapman throws a 102 mph fastball outside for a ball.

8:30: Kipnis flies out to Ben Zobrist

Where is the issue with any of that? The pace of the game changes when guys are on base. Making any changes could severely hamper things for the defense.

 

Edit: Unless you want to make it so no one can steal bases. Actually let's go with that. If pitchers don't have to go into the stretch or worry about guys stealing then that would speed up the pace of play.

 

I turned the game off and went to sleep during that very AB. It's a problem because nationally, unlike in Chicago and Cleveland, viewers are not hanging on every pitch.

[owbc]

Simply eliminating the mound visits makes that sequence 20% faster.

 

The second thing I would do is institute a pitch clock. The only requirement is that the pitcher has to do *something* after 20 seconds. Play catch with the first basemen all night if he wants, but at least it keeps the game moving. Violating the pitch clock is an automatic ball. Pitchers can step off the mound once per AB and batters can call time once per AB.

 

Since postseason games are of such high importance, MLB could lengthen the pitch clock to 30 seconds or something. I suspect once the viewing audience is used to the games moving faster, they will want it to stay that way. I would probably actually have to watch the game instead of browsing the Internet and Twitter at the same time.

 

[sarcasm]Added bonus: keeping time will give the home plate umpire something to do after he's replaced by a computer.[/sarcasm]

[FVBrewerFan]

Baseball has never been a game "on the clock." Everything being equal would I like games to be 1/2 hour shorter? Sure. But not at the expense of changing rules. No offense, but I think 90% of the rule changes mentioned here are crazy. Bottom line, most of the reason games are longer in modern baseball is all the pitching changes. Nothing you can do about that. Limiting the number of changes would be changing the game in a way that is unacceptable to me.

 

As far as the Chapman sequence is concerned, I was riveted to the TV. One run game. World Series. Cleveland with a chance to tie, and possibly win the WS. To me, situations like that are what baseball is all about.

 

Baseball is not an "action" sport like football or basketball. It's a game that can be enjoyed without 100% focus at all times. I am almost reading something while the Brewers game is on TV, while a Packers game I will not miss a single play.

 

My point being, I don't think time is the issue. I think many people just aren't huge baseball fans to begin with, and don't appreciate the strategy involved, anticipating big moments in a game, etc. Baseball games are as much a social event for most fans as the game itself when attended in person.

 

Anyone who has played baseball at any level will know some guys need more time to settle in at the plate. Some pitchers take more time too. In both cases, there is some gamesmanship in throwing the other off their routine. That's baseball.

 

I guess what I'm saying is so many people are trying to make MLB something it's not. I hope it will never turn into what many seem to want. Two hour games with scores of 14-12.

[MadScientist]

Baseball has never been a game "on the clock." Everything being equal would I like games to be 1/2 hour shorter? Sure. But not at the expense of changing rules. No offense, but I think 90% of the rule changes mentioned here are crazy. Bottom line, most of the reason games are longer in modern baseball is all the pitching changes. Nothing you can do about that. Limiting the number of changes would be changing the game in a way that is unacceptable to me.

 

As far as the Chapman sequence is concerned, I was riveted to the TV. One run game. World Series. Cleveland with a chance to tie, and possibly win the WS. To me, situations like that are what baseball is all about.

 

Baseball is not an "action" sport like football or basketball. It's a game that can be enjoyed without 100% focus at all times. I am almost reading something while the Brewers game is on TV, while a Packers game I will not miss a single play.

 

My point being, I don't think time is the issue. I think many people just aren't huge baseball fans to begin with, and don't appreciate the strategy involved, anticipating big moments in a game, etc. Baseball games are as much a social event for most fans as the game itself when attended in person.

 

Anyone who has played baseball at any level will know some guys need more time to settle in at the plate. Some pitchers take more time too. In both cases, there is some gamesmanship in throwing the other off their routine. That's baseball.

 

I guess what I'm saying is so many people are trying to make MLB something it's not. I hope it will never turn into what many seem to want. Two hour games with scores of 14-12.

 

If the game has changed due to excessive pitching changes, then why not do something about them. The simplest and least radical thing being that a pitcher must face at least two batters unless the end of an inning is reached. Ditching the odious LOOGY won't cause 14-12 games, won't burden teams, and will make the game flow better. The time savings will be small, but the perception will be a faster game.

 

Also shortening the time given to teams checking on when to challenge will not negatively impact the game.

[FVBrewerFan]

Dictating how a manager uses his bullpen is not my idea of a change for the better. Just a difference of opinion.