40-man roster discussion (part 2)

[djoctagone]

I'm guessing they are zeroing in on FA reliever to fill that final spot.

yes, indeed. neftali feliz signs a one year deal to fill the 40-man roster. feliz has two minor league options remaining, but due to his accrued service time, he has the right to refuse the minor league assignment. he has been outrighted off the 40-man roster before, so if the brewers wish to outright him to the minor leagues, he could also refuse that assignment.

[djoctagone]

rob scahill designated for assignment to make room for waiver claim ehire adrianza.

 

adrianza enters 2017 spring training with no minor league options remaining, and he can refuse a minor league assignment if the brewers wish to outright him at the end of camp, or at any point during the season.

 

scahill has never been outrighted before, so if the brewers do not work out a trade for him, or if another team does not claim him, the brewers can outright him to the minor leagues and he will be forced to accept the assignment.

 

the 40-man roster remains full.

[djoctagone]

adrianza's 2017 media guide profile probably hadn't even been written yet. he has been designated for assignment to make room for new waiver claim jesús aguilar. aguilar is out of minor league options, but if the brewers wish to outright him to the minor leagues and no other team claims him, he will be forced to accept the minor league assignment.

 

the 40-man roster remains full.

[Mass Haas]

The DFA limbo process is now seven days, not ten.

[Crash2303]

interesting article on the Blue Jays' controversial waiver pickup strategy- to claim as many players as possible and DFA them to hopefully pass through waivers again and add quality depth to the AAA club less expensively than signing minor league FA. It seems Stearns is using a similar strategy.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/toronto-blue-jays-gm-alex-anthopoulos-uses-waiver-claims-to-maximum-advantage-at-minimal-cost-042413

 

Not including guys like Scahill & Rowen who were claimed and optioned successfully during the season. Here is a list of the five players that Stearns claimed off waivers this offseason, of which all (except Aguilar, the most recent claim) were subsequently exposed to waivers again. If the intent of claiming them is the hope of squeezing them through to AAA, it has not had the most effective results this offseason- but i think its a good strategy.

 

Adam Walker -re-claimed off waivers

Ehire Adrianza - within 7 day DFA limbo

Jesus Aguilar - 40 man...for now

Blake Parker - passed through, but denied assignment

Steve Geltz - passed through, but denied assignment

[djoctagone]

If the intent . . . is the hope of squeezing them through to AAA, it has not had the most effective results this offseason- but i think its a good strategy.

in the cases of scahill and adrianza, neither have passed through waivers yet in their careers and been outrighted to the minor leagues. thus, if outrighted, they have to accept the minor league assignment. but if either is added to any team's 40-man roster after that, if that team wishes to outright him within their own organization, he can elect free agency and sign with any team.

[Mass Haas]

As per Adam McCalvy --

 

One factor to consider as the Brewers mull their catching situation: Minor League options. Pina has none, Bandy one, Susac two.

 

***

 

I've updated the Brewerfan 40-man list with Susac's info. We were all over the place on him, from two down to zero. The others two were accurate.

[djoctagone]

adrian houser has been optioned to the minor leagues. assuming he spends more than 20 days optioned this year, he will enter 2018 spring training with one minor league option remaining.

[Mass Haas]

We're able to confirm option data with the Brewers 2017 media guide, so were able to fill in some blanks on the veteran acquisitions like Feliz and Thames, and thus the Brewerfan 40-man roster page including option data is now updated.

 

As we have in the past, we suggest you bookmark / favorite that page. There's no direct link to navigate from our old home page. It will also come up quickly if you Google "Brewerfan 40-man roster".

 

There's only one player we're going to ask the Brewers to double-check on. Coming into 2016, the Brewers listed reliever Corey Knebel with one option remaining, which made sense.

 

Then, in 2016, Knebel's start to the season was delayed by an oblique injury, and you can track his transaction path at the bottom of his MiLB player page.

 

Knebel was on an injury rehab assignment, then once activated, he walked six in his first five outings (see game log here)

 

Knebel was then optioned on June 19th, and then recalled on July 15th. That's longer than 20 days, and should have wiped out that final option (less than 20 days would have preserved it).

 

Let's see what we learn from the Brewers. Maybe they were able to sneak some rehab days onto that optional assignment somehow, technically keeping it under a 20-day formal option.

 

NOTE: RHP Adrian Houser is listed with just one option left now, he's the only one whose 2017 option has already been made and noted on the list as of Sunday afternoon.

[Mass Haas]

I've since been provided with the details on Knebel - thank you, fellow Brewer fan!

 

The 2016 option counted, but Knebel will be eligible for a 4th option. He’s burned through three options and has less than five years of professional service. That typically earns the player a 4th option.

 

But, an important note, if Knebel gets to five years of professional service before using the 4th option, then I believe that 4th option goes away.

 

***

 

That is super-interesting and good to know. Knebel was drafted and made his pro debut in 2013 and was in the big leagues by May of 2014 - super-quick, which is why this doesn't come up often. He was optioned for the first time a month later.

 

None of us want to see Knebel "blow up" in 2017, but if he does, you now know why he has a 4th option remaining, which shouldn't become null if unused until some time in 2018.

[Outlander]

I don't even think 2013 counts as a year as I don't believe he spent 90 days on an active list.

[ZBTMP]

NOTE: RHP Adrian Houser is listed with just one option left now, he's the only one whose 2017 option has already been made and noted on the list as of Sunday afternoon.

 

Procedural questions, It seems likely to me that he is going to end up on the 60-day DL at some point anyway, couldn't the Brewers have saved an option at the expense of service time here?

[And That]

If they place him on the 60-day, they have to pay him full MLB salary, and he accrues service time. Could be they surmised burning an option was the lesser of two evils? If they want to avoid placing him on the 60-day all year, it's probably doable.

 

They also have until a few weeks into the season to reverse their decision, as the option only takes effect after 20 days into the regular season.

[Greenleaf1]

Can Houser be put on the 60-day DL AFTER being optioned, or is he now going to take up a spot on the 40-man all year? Seems like a waste of a spot that could be used on someone else.

[And That]

Yes, he can be placed on the 60-day DL at any time, provided the 40-man roster is full. He might technically have to be recalled (not to report) first.

[Greenleaf1]

So there's no way to clear his 40-man spot at this point without letting his service clock run? Seems kinda dumb.

[Outlander]

I don't know, makes sense to me since everybody on the major league DL accrues service time and major league pay. I think ultimately it protects the player and something the union fought for during the years so that ownership didn't screw players that got injured while in the majors. Even today you will see players get optioned then rescinded and put on the DL because the player was hurt. Unfortunately for Houser he was hurt in the minors.

[bork]

http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/219203986/josh-hader-7-others-sent-to-minor-league-camp/

 

Hader, Jorge Lopez, Damien Magnifico and Taylor Williams were optioned to the Minors, with their affiliate assignments to be determined. Non-roster invitees Andrew Barbosa, Paolo Espino, Stephen Kohlscheen and Aaron Wilkerson were returned to Minor League camp

[djoctagone]

We're able to confirm option data with the Brewers 2017 media guide, so were able to fill in some blanks on the veteran acquisitions like Feliz and Thames, and thus the Brewerfan 40-man roster page including option data is now updated.

it's more accurate to state that thames has used two of his minor league options. his contract with the brewers stipulates that he cannot be optioned, even though he has a minor league option remaining. also, at the end of his contract, he will be short of the six years of service to declare free agency, but he will be allowed to declare free agency.

[djoctagone]

in old news, the brewers optioned a number of players in the past few weeks to the minors. provided they each spend at least 20 days optioned to the minor leagues once the mlb season starts, their number of remaining options entering 2018 spring training follow in parentheses. they can be recalled and sent back down throughout the 2017 season.

 

lewis brinson (2)

ryan cordell (2)

josh hader (2)

jorge lopez (1)

damien magnifico (1)

brett phillips (2)

taylor williams (2)

 

and in today's roster moves, these players were optioned. provided they each spend at least 20 days optioned to the minor leagues once the mlb season starts, their number of remaining options entering 2018 spring training follow in parentheses. likewise, they can be recalled and sent back throughout the 2017 season.

 

michael blazek (0)

michael reed (1)

yadiel rivera (0)

[And That]

Just to note, Lopez and Williams were optioned to AA. Everyone else (I believe) was optioned to AAA.

[Lee16]

The Brewers released Joba Chamberlain, I was really hoping he'd make the team. Oh well.

[adambr2]

So the pen is sort of starting to come into focus.

 

Feliz

Torres

Marinez

Knebel

Milone?

Cravy?

Whoever the 6th man is in the rotation order?

 

That would be my best guess right now. Suter, Jungmann, and Barnes optioned.

[djoctagone]

Just to note, Lopez and Williams were optioned to AA. Everyone else (I believe) was optioned to AAA.

michael reed was told he's to report to class aa to start the season.

[Greenleaf1]

I would assume Reed won't be on the 40-man for very long....