40-man roster discussion (part 2)

[Mass Haas]

#Brewers reduce 40-man roster to, in essence, 33 after outrighting Barrios, Rowen, Pinto: m.brewers.mlb.com/mil/roster/tra… (h/t @Mass_Haas)

 

Actually, it's 34, as does the Brewers site once you subtract Capuano & Boyer.

 

Quote my tweets, not the sub-tweets .

[djoctagone]

five players had their contracts selected today and will enter 2017 spring training with three minor league options: lhp josh hader, rhp taylor williams, of lewis brinson, of ryan cordell and of brett phillips.

 

of adam walker was claimed from the twins today. walker will enter 2017 spring training with two minor league options remaining.

 

the 40-man roster is now full.

[Mass Haas]

Updated Brewers 40-man roster, now again complete with sortable remaining option info

 

Michael Blazek still has an option because his 2016 option was less than 20 days.

 

However, Corey Knebel is out of options as his 2016 option was greater than 20 days.

 

Rob Scahill is out of options, and even with that lack of roster flexibility, Brewers saw fit to maintain his 40-man roster spot. Along with Knebel and Scahill, only Jhan Marinez is among the potential bubble players without remaining options.

 

The Brewers Media Guide provides remaining option info, but on players acquired mid-season the best resource is the player's MiLB.com page. For instance, if you scroll down to the bottom of Andrew Susac's page, you'll see he was never optioned once called up in 2014. So he has one option remaining, having been optioned in 2015 and 2016.

 

Bookmark the page linked above, it's the only way to reach it directly.

 

Don't place a lot of faith in MLB Trade Rumors' Roster Resource page acquisition when it comes to option info, they have a few errors, such as listing Orlando Arcia with just two, not three.

 

We'll double-check the info when the new media guide comes out in the spring, but we're about 98% sure our page is accurate.

[djoctagone]

For instance, if you scroll down to the bottom of Andrew Susac's page, you'll see he was never optioned once called up in 2014. So he has one option remaining, having been optioned in 2015 and 2016.

i'm not clear on susac, and how the options clock works in spring training. he was optioned 29 march 2015 and recalled 18 april 2015, and spent the rest of the season on the major league roster or major league diasbled list. if you count the 29th as day 1, and count the 17th as final day, that's 20 days.

 

the 2015 season started late--the giants' first game was sunday 6 april (there was likely a mlb game the night before, and there may have been an official game or two played overseas in 2015 . . . i can't remember).

 

thus, the question is, does the time-served-while-optioned clock start right away in spring training the day the player is optioned, or does it start ticking when the exhibition season ends and 25-man rosters are set?

 

and, is it 20 days or fewer, or 19 days or fewer, spent optioned that preserves the option for another season?

[Mass Haas]

Good points on Susac, at least we're not debating whether he has an option or not. He definitely does, but is it two? At minimum the media guide will tell us.

[And That]

Optional assignment clock starts on the first day of the regular season. Almost positive about that.

 

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3521

 

If you're optioned in spring training, you have to be down for the first ten days of the regular reason, except for the usual caveats. Injury, 26th man, etc.

[1992casey]

Yeah, I think Toby's right. The only real reason I see for optioning a player in spring training is that if an injury occurs, he goes to the minor league disabled list instead of accruing major league service time.

[Mass Haas]

David Goforth will have to accept his minor league assignment if he is neither traded nor claimed during this DFA period.

 

***

 

I can't find any mention of RHP Blake Parker being out of options, it appears he has one left if you follow the trail of multiple outrights and DFA's in his transaction history (bottom of MiLB.com page).

[djoctagone]

11 waiver claims in david stearns' first 12 months on the job equates to $550,000 paid to other clubs. $50,000 of that was returned to the brewers when they returned their two rule 5 draft picks. half a million bucks spent on waiver claims . . . it adds up.

[billymac]

11 waiver claims in david stearns' first 12 months on the job equates to $550,000 paid to other clubs. $50,000 of that was returned to the brewers when they returned their two rule 5 draft picks. half a million bucks spent on waiver claims . . . it adds up.

 

Junior Guerra alone will make all that back and much more when he's traded. Need to trust the scouts and talent evaluators.

[CheezWizHed]

A good chunk of last year's BP was made from waiver claims also. I'd say its worth the money at this point of the rebuild.

[adambr2]

Relievers are so volatile from year to year, it seems worth it to try to build one from a number of waiver claims and hope to catch lighting in a bottle with a few rather than overpay in free agency for relievers coming off a flukey great year. If you ask me, Stearns is just looking to take advantage of a market inefficiency.

 

Based on my own guesses and admittedly no research on this one, I'd guess that maybe 5-10% of the reliever market is comprised of dominant, shutdown relievers who are consistent from year to year and can be the difference between a World Series appearance and a World Series title. These relievers are arguably worth the money for that very reason.

 

Most of the other 90-95% are either just guys or specialized type arms, impossible to predict from year to year and not worth lucrative deals to try to find.

[djoctagone]

one official transaction yesterday, with the waiver claim of steve geltz from the tampa bay rays and adam walker being designated for assignment. geltz definitely burned an option in 2016. it appears that his option was not burned in 2013, because he was optioned during 2013 spring training, and then outrighted to the minors during that same spring training. it's not clear if his option was burned in 2012, as his contract was selected on 11 august 2012, was optioned 18 august 2012, but not recalled when rosters expanded to 40 nor when the minor league season ended early in 2012 (the 20th day would've been 6 september).

 

geltz should definitely have at least one minor league option remaining entering 2017 spring training.

 

it'd be great to better understand how the 20-day clock works in spring training and during the month of september/when minor league seasons end before major league seasons do.

 

officially, the roster still stands at 40, until chris carter's reported roster status change becomes official.

[And That]

it'd be great to better understand how the 20-day clock works in spring training and during the month of september/when minor league seasons end before major league seasons do.

It's 20 days of the regular season, same calendar as used to determine service time. So when he was optioned in spring training of 2013 and then outrighted before the season started, he spent 0 days on optional assignment. No option used.

 

Any point during the regular season counts the same as any other. When he was optioned in 2012, he spent in the neighborhood of 45 days on optional assignment. Doesn't matter if minor league season was over or not. Option was used that year.

 

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3521

[djoctagone]

chris carter designated for assignment to make room for eric thames. while it appears that thames has one minor league option remaining, his contract stipulates that he must provide consent to be sent to the minor leagues.

 

the roster remains full at 40.

[djoctagone]

the brewers have outrighted steve geltz to the minor leagues. because he's been outrighted once before, he has the right to refuse the minor league assignment and become a free agent.

 

the roster is at 39.

[Mass Haas]

But do we know that Geltz has definitely accepted the outright assignment? Just following Rotoworld and other transaction sites over the years, we've seen players who have the right to do so, like Geltz, refuse the outright assignment a day or two later.

 

(Goforth, we know, can't...)

[Mass Haas]

But do we know that Geltz has definitely accepted the outright assignment? Just following Rotoworld and other transaction sites over the years, we've seen players who have the right to do so, like Geltz, refuse the outright assignment a day or two later.

 

(Goforth, we know, can't...)

 

Geltz has eight days to either accept or reject the outright assignment, as per @BrewersPD.

[djoctagone]

if the trade with the red sox is official as reported, the 40-man roster will remain at 39.

 

tyler thornburg to boston for travis shaw and two minor league prospects. shaw will enter 2017 spring training with two minor league options remaining.

[djoctagone]

with the rule 5 draft acquisition of caleb smith from the new york yankees, the 40-man roster is full. smith cost the brewers $100,000, and he must remain on the brewers' 25-man roster for all of 2017 in order to remain on the brewers' 40-man roster (with minor league options) in 2018 and beyond.

 

if the brewers cannot keep smith on their 25-man roster, he must be waived, go unclaimed by 29 other teams (who also must abide by the same 25-man roster inclusion rule for 2017 if opting to claim him), and be offered back to the yankees for $50,000.

[djoctagone]

the brewers have traded rule 5 pick to the chicago cubs for a player to be named or cash. the roster is back at 39.

[djoctagone]

with today's trade for jett bandy, the roster stays at 39. bandy will enter 2017 spring training with one minor league option remaining.

 

three catchers remain on the 40-man roster. andrew susac has at least one minor league option remaining (believed to be two). manny pina is out of minor league options.

[djoctagone]

with today's signing of tommy milone, the 40-man roster is full. milone will enter 2017 spring training with no minor league options remaining. if the brewers wish to outright him to the minor leagues, he has the right to refuse the assignment and become a free agent.

[djoctagone]

blake parker has been claimed by the angels. the roster is at 39.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm guessing they are zeroing in on FA reliever to fill that final spot.