40-man roster discussion (part 2)

[djoctagone]

jonathan schoop is acquired as jonathan villar ends his tenure on the brewers' 40-man roster. schoop has one more season of arbitration eligibility, and can become a free agent after the 2019 season.

 

the roster remains at 38 players.

[LouisEly]

With the addition of Moustakas and subtraction of B.Phillips, J.Lopez, and B.Miller the 40 man roster currently stands at 38.

 

Looks like there is some room for another trade or a callup. Torres-Costa would be a nice add.

With two open spots on the 40 I could see both QTC and Nick Ramirez added and called up in September. Lots of L/R matchup switches.

[rickh150]

The 40 man/Rule 5 crush this coming offseason has been addressed with Brinson, Phillips, Ortiz, Yamamoto, Harrison, Medeiros, Diaz, and Lopez traded. All were Rule 5 eligible. Surely a secondary reason for dealing....

[Oxy]

jonathan schoop is acquired as jonathan villar ends his tenure on the brewers' 40-man roster. schoop has one more season of arbitration eligibility, and can become a free agent after the 2019 season.

 

the roster remains at 38 players.

 

I asked this in a couple other threads, but it is more appropriate here. What are the rules regarding option years, service time and FA eligibility, and how does the Jonathan Schoop situation fit into those rules?

[ClosetBrewerFan]

The 40 man/Rule 5 crush this coming offseason has been addressed with Brinson, Phillips, Ortiz, Yamamoto, Harrison, Medeiros, Diaz, and Lopez traded. All were Rule 5 eligible. Surely a secondary reason for dealing....

40 man crunch Woah Solvd

[adambr2]

jonathan schoop is acquired as jonathan villar ends his tenure on the brewers' 40-man roster. schoop has one more season of arbitration eligibility, and can become a free agent after the 2019 season.

 

the roster remains at 38 players.

 

I asked this in a couple other threads, but it is more appropriate here. What are the rules regarding option years, service time and FA eligibility, and how does the Jonathan Schoop situation fit into those rules?

 

This is my understanding, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Schoop had 4.027 years service time entering 2018, or 4 years + 27 days. He would need to be under 6 years after 2019 to control him through 2020.

 

I don't know what he has left for options remaining but if he does have options he should indeed be able to be optioned.

 

For simplicity, say the 2019 season starts on April 1st and ends September 30th. (183 days). A player needs 172 days on the MLB roster for a full credited season, so Schoop would need to be down until April 13th (from the beginning of the season) not to get a full year in 2019. Since he has an additional 27 days on top of 4 years, you would need to keep him down an additional 28 days after April 13th, or May 11th, 2019 being the hypothetical date you could keep Schoop down until to buy an additional service year in 2020.

 

Should also note that this would be a pretty clear and deliberate manipulation of service time that would probably upset Schoop, his agent, and the MLBPA. Not going to speculate what more could come out of it then.

 

EDIT: Correction on Schoop's ability to be optioned that I discussed in the 3rd paragraph. As of late August Schoop will hit 5 years service time and require consent to option him. So you could likely not plan to option him entering 2019. You would have to option him like right now, because they still can, and it seems they would have to keep him down 39 days to buy extra control in 2020.

 

In other words, not happening.

[mrn1ceguy]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

[Oxy]

 

Schoop had 4.027 years service time entering 2018, or 4 years + 27 days. He would need to be under 6 years after 2019 to control him through 2020.

 

I don't know what he has left for options remaining but if he does have options he should indeed be able to be optioned.

 

Should also note that this would be a pretty clear and deliberate manipulation of service time that would probably upset Schoop, his agent, and the MLBPA. Not going to speculate what more could come out of it then.

 

EDIT: Correction on Schoop's ability to be optioned that I discussed in the 3rd paragraph. As of late August Schoop will hit 5 years service time and require consent to option him. So you could likely not plan to option him entering 2019. You would have to option him like right now, because they still can, and it seems they would have to keep him down 39 days to buy extra control in 2020.

 

In other words, not happening.

 

Thank you! I knew it was something like this. My main confusion was with the 4.027 years which I read as an actual decimal rather than 27 days.

[LouisEly]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

With the season he's having this year I highly doubt he will get a significant raise, if any raise at all.

[mrn1ceguy]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

With the season he's having this year I highly doubt he will get a significant raise, if any raise at all.

 

Agreed it would be a small increase but i thought the rule of thumb is arbitration always goes up at least 15-20% each year and never down? Eitherway, someone noticed he will be able to reject any option so thankfully this scenario can’t be played out.

[istanbultaye]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

With the season he's having this year I highly doubt he will get a significant raise, if any raise at all.

 

Agreed it would be a small increase but i thought the rule of thumb is arbitration always goes up at least 15-20% each year and never down? Eitherway, someone noticed he will be able to reject any option so thankfully this scenario can’t be played out.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe the % rule is that a person's salary can't go down more than 20% in arbitration.

[Roderick]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

With the season he's having this year I highly doubt he will get a significant raise, if any raise at all.

 

Arby also looks at career to date also, right? Significant is subjective, my guess would be a significant raise.

 

He is one year deeper in Arby's and that alone will pay him more. He can rightfully say he was playing injured, to help the team out and he shouldn't get dinged for early this year (assuming his results get better as year goes on).

[adambr2]

He'll get around $10M, I'd guess. Not a significant raise but something. He's actually someone you may consider flipping in the offseason if he produces the rest of the year and you feel Hiura is ready.

[MNBrew]

He'll get around $10M, I'd guess. Not a significant raise but something. He's actually someone you may consider flipping in the offseason if he produces the rest of the year and you feel Hiura is ready.

Isn't the deal that if a player actually makes it to arbitration, they consider his past TWO years and also the salaries of players who performed similarly (amount of experience/service time) who provide viable comps?

 

If that's the case, his 35 HRs & 102 RBIs from 2017 would very much be "in play" in that process.

[stalton]

Also doesn't arbitration look at the classic stats (BA, HRs, ERA, W) versus the advanced stats?

[LouisEly]

Arby also looks at career to date also, right? Significant is subjective, my guess would be a significant raise.

His basic stats - BA, OBP, SLG - so far this year are below his career averages, so if that's the case he won't get a raise.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think it's time to DFA Albers and bring up Woodruff to stay. Unless Williams gets it together in the next week, I'd swap him out for Barnes too.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

During Albers first 21 games he had an ERA of 1.08 with a WHIP of 0.88 and K:BB of 21:5. In his last 7 games since coming back from injury his ERA has been 28.80 and a WHIP of 4.00 and 7:4 K:BB. Clearly something is still wrong with him although he says he is healthy. He has also been very unlucky as his BAbip is .625.

 

Albers is on an incredibly team friendly contract for this year and next; $2.5M each. Are you saying you would throw all of that away because of these last few games?

 

I'm frustrated as well but am not willing to risk losing a good pitcher based on a knee jerk reaction.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

During Albers first 21 games he had an ERA of 1.08 with a WHIP of 0.88 and K:BB of 21:5. In his last 7 games since coming back from injury his ERA has been 28.80 and a WHIP of 4.00 and 7:4 K:BB. Clearly something is still wrong with him although he says he is healthy. He has also been very unlucky as his BAbip is .625.

 

Albers is on an incredibly team friendly contract for this year and next; $2.5M each. Are you saying you would throw all of that away because of these last few games?

 

I'm frustrated as well but am not willing to risk losing a good pitcher based on a knee jerk reaction.

 

It's that "grass is always greener" philosophy. Same thing with the people that want Barnes back up. He was sent down for a reason (general suckiness), and while his numbers are better in AAA in only 6 innings, he still has 5 walks, which is concerning. But at least the Brewers still own his rights. DFA Albers, and him and his cheap contract is gone. Probably to the Cardinals, where he'd immediately put up a sub 2 ERA.

[LouisEly]

Same thing with the people that want Barnes back up. He was sent down for a reason (general suckiness)

It's pretty amazing that the Brewers bullpen is so good that a 3.27 FIP/3.46 ERA is considered general suckiness.

 

Really speaks to how far the Brewers have come and how good the bullpen is.

[brewmann04]

I agree Albers is still not 100%

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Someone needs to find a hangnail or something on Albers so he can be put on the DL. He needs to get right.

[djoctagone]

jordan lyles becomes a brewer via a waiver claim. lyles is out of minor league options, and has been outrighted to the minor leagues before. if the brewers wish to send lyles to the minors, he has the right to refuse the minor league assignment and become a free agent.

 

a corresponding move will be needed on the 25-man when lyles is activated. the roster stands at 39 players.

[JosephC]

Also to add, Schoop is making 8.5M this year, so next years aribitration will probably be 11M? If we tried to play the option game and get another year of arbitration, it would come in Arb 13-16M I would guess. That is not much less then he QO of 17M which we could easily give him after next year. In no way does that extra million or 3 out weigh the negative impact of trying to screw over your own players chance at FA and a mega contract.

With the season he's having this year I highly doubt he will get a significant raise, if any raise at all.

 

Agreed it would be a small increase but i thought the rule of thumb is arbitration always goes up at least 15-20% each year and never down? Eitherway, someone noticed he will be able to reject any option so thankfully this scenario can’t be played out.

 

The rule used to be that an arbitration eligible player, before he earned free agency, would get a minimum 20% raise if he was offered arbitration. That rule has changed, and now I think that a player can receive no more than a 20% cut in pay (I may be wrong about that). However, the pay cut angle is generally only used for players who have some type of significant injury, and Schoop will not fall into that group even if he hits .100/.125/.250/.375 from now until the end of the season. It's a pretty good bet that he'll get somewhere around a 25% raise if the Brewers offer him arbitration. I'd guess he'd be in line for about a 10.5-10.75 million dollar salary next year.

[djoctagone]

the brewers claim ariel hernandez from the dodgers and option him to colorado springs. hernandez has burned his second option this year, and will enter 2019 spring training with one option remaining.

 

the 40-man roster is now at capacity.