2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[LouisEly]

Take away any team's top three corners, top three RBs, #1 TE and #1 pass rusher and they will struggle.

 

I'm not sure it's on the WRs as it is the OC and the play routes. Don't see them running plays that are designed to clear out an area and have a WR cross through that area. I agree with the sentiment of too many back shoulder throws; seems like a lot of routes are to run to a certain area and depending on the pre-snap read a ball may or may not be coming your way. Rodgers has seemed kind of lazy in that he's not stepping into throws consistently. Having no running threat doesn't help.

 

Jalen Hurd and his former teammate Alvin Kamara would make nice 2nd/3rd round picks, especially if Hurd is the 6'4" 240 that he's listed at.

[trwi7]

Down 21-0 to the Titans after the 1st.

[MrTPlush]

Defense is a disaster. Utter disaster. All the injuries to the secondary have made the defense a total joke.

 

I know a lot of people want to blame Capers, but honestly I don't think this disaster is his schemes etc. You watch that defense play and they aren't one unit. They don't have the experience playing on the field together and it shows bad with all the blown assignments. You can hide one injury no biggie, but once 4 guys are missing you have lost too much. Matthews leadership isn't there, the secondary is being asked to do things they can't do, its a band aid job every week, and they are painfully prone to giving up massive plays. Even worse now the special teams is a disaster. Crosby missing kicks, muffed punt when they were getting back in it, and last weeks huge return.

 

They still have a chance...heck the NFC is so sad they are still well in the Wild Card race.

[fondybrewfan]

Part of the issue with the injuries is that Capers is being forced to rely on rookies and 2nd year players because you know TT does not like veterans.

 

The ship is sinking fast. I didn't think MM or TT's job was really at stake here but if they keep going down this path.....

 

Don't forget that after the 6-0 fluke start last year they are now 8-11 with a first round exit in the playoffs. They have lost a bunch of games at home they had no business losing and have not even been competitive on the road a lot of times. If they stumble to say 6-10 I think heads probably roll.

[BillScottCanRake]

A small correction- Green Bay won at Washington in the Wild Card round last year and lost in the divisional playoff at Arizona.

[tmwiese55]

Coming out like that yesterday is the type of things that I think could lead to big changes. Losing close games happens, coming out completely flat is a bad sign of what's going on in the locker room. Of course it can just happen from time to time, but if it happens several times to finish the year then it's a big symptom of a larger problem. My guess is that won't happen again and they'll finish out ok, maybe not make the playoffs though and the 'big move' they make will be to fire Capers.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, I would feel better if I really believed the problems with this team are mostly due to injuries on defense. I want to believe that, but I don't. The regular starters have made way too many mistakes- it's not just the backups. Textbook example, Burnett getting fooled on a simple halfback pass for a TD.

 

Special Teams are usually a good indicator of how a team is coached. Missed extra points, muffed punt, giving p a KO return, etc. Worst of all, professional football players not knowing how to properly down the ball inside the 5. And don't get me started on these pooch kickoffs. Stop trying to be too smart, just kick it out of the end zone every time. Tried that last week, went for a TD. Tried it again this week, returned to the 40. That kind of stuff, MM has direct control over.

 

Most of all, this team is not playing inspired, smart football. In all phases of the game. But I'll say again, TT has every bit as much to do with this as MM. Too many 1st round busts, and most of the rest have been mediocre. Not even finding those late round gems anymore that become great players. The entire roster is really mediocre.

[pacopete4]

The next two weeks will tell us a lot of where the Packers stand in the mix of making the playoffs (at WAS, at PHI). If they can right the ship in the next two weeks, there's hope. If they can't, I'm hoping they tank and get a good draft spot to hopefully get an impact player on defense and move on from the likes of Clay Matthews who can't seem to be healthy anymore and is going to make $10M plus.

[MrTPlush]

Julius Peppers said, "It's just one game."

 

No it has been 3 games now. Maybe they should panic and play with urgency because this "no worries" attitude isn't working.

[pacopete4]

Julius Peppers said, "It's just one game."

 

No it has been 3 games now. Maybe they should panic and play with urgency because this "no worries" attitude isn't working.

 

I never believe these type of comments. Of course there is a panic mode that they are in. They feel it. Will it matter? That will be played out over the next couple of weeks.

[MrTPlush]

Julius Peppers said, "It's just one game."

 

No it has been 3 games now. Maybe they should panic and play with urgency because this "no worries" attitude isn't working.

 

I never believe these type of comments. Of course there is a panic mode that they are in. They feel it. Will it matter? That will be played out over the next couple of weeks.

 

If you listen to him it honestly sounds like there isn't much worry.

[stoutdude04]

Julius Peppers said, "It's just one game."

 

No it has been 3 games now. Maybe they should panic and play with urgency because this "no worries" attitude isn't working.

 

I never believe these type of comments. Of course there is a panic mode that they are in. They feel it. Will it matter? That will be played out over the next couple of weeks.

 

If you listen to him it honestly sounds like there isn't much worry.

 

He has been on some pretty poor teams. Maybe he isnt worried because he is used to it.

[MrTPlush]

He has been on some pretty poor teams. Maybe he isnt worried because he is used to it.

 

That is true he did play for the Bears.

[FVBrewerFan]

Julius Peppers said, "It's just one game."

 

I think you're taking this out of context. I think he meant that's how many games this season where he had an impact.

[jerichoholicninja]

During Rodgers first year as a starter he spent most of the time running for his life. The next couple of years he would lose shootouts. His whole tenure has been playing behind patchwork lines, not having a running game, and, aside from a year or two, having to score more points than his suspect defense gives up. He is literally the only reason the Packers have been relevant since he was drafted. It's amazing how little has been done to improve any position outside of QB under Thompson. I guess Lacy might work out eventually but there were a few quality free agent RB's last offseason that really could have helped this team.

[pacopete4]

During Rodgers first year as a starter he spent most of the time running for his life. The next couple of years he would lose shootouts. His whole tenure has been playing behind patchwork lines, not having a running game, and, aside from a year or two, having to score more points than his suspect defense gives up. He is literally the only reason the Packers have been relevant since he was drafted. It's amazing how little has been done to improve any position outside of QB under Thompson. I guess Lacy might work out eventually but there were a few quality free agent RB's last offseason that really could have helped this team.

 

 

I disagree with just about everything you have said. Has Rodgers been special? Of course. Is it overblown in how bad his play has been the last 20 games? Absolutely. But there have been a lot of other good players for the Packers. This season is not the one you make a definitive statement on a guy like Ted Thompson. As much as I would like to see him step aside and let Wolf take over, you have to give him credit for building rosters each and every year that ARE good enough to win Super Bowls. This year, maybe not. But I would've liked to see what this team looked like had the injury bug not hit them. I think they'd be winning the division right now looking to gather steam towards the playoffs.

[MrTPlush]

But I would've liked to see what this team looked like had the injury bug not hit them.

 

That is the hardest part. Most people calling for the heads of management/coaching hated them before. They are trying to use the last few games as proof and I just don't think you can do that. Can someone please explain to me how you expect a team to win games when their injury report for the week looks like this. Most of these players are sizable contributors to major contributors. A good majority of these players didn't play last week, won't play for weeks, and even the ones that did play or will play soon will be very limited.

 

Letroy Guion DT

T.J. Lang G

Jared Cook TE

Randall Cobb WR

J.C. Tretter C

Clay Matthews LB

Damarious Randall CB

Micah Hyde S

James Starks RB

Quinten Rollins CB

Eddie Lacy RB

Sam Shields CB

Jared Abbrederis WR

Chris Banjo CB

 

Yah the team is pretty bad right now and yes the secondary is pretty brutal. Why though? Because most of the talent is sitting on the bench in sweatpants. The running game was shattered when our two top backs went down. The defense went downhill once half the secondary and Matthews went down. You can't plan for things like this.

[FVBrewerFan]

You can't plan for things like this.

 

Sure you can, and they've done it in past years. Every team has injuries, do the Packers have more than average? Probably, but other than the Corners they could have easily planned for this.

 

Matthews always misses a stretch of games every year. They have about 19 guys who are supposed to be OLB/DE type of pass-rushers. None of them are Clay Matthews but nobody has stepped up. They carry 7 WR and MM doesn't play a couple of them, they're just trying to stash them on the roster. No luck drafting or developing any TE, so you get a decent FA (cook) with no quality depth behind him. You carry a FB you rarely use instead of another RB. Etc.

 

Most years during the Favre/Rodgers era there have always been guys to step up. Next man up, MM always says it himself. Just not happening anymore.

[tmwiese55]

Exactly, of course we can all nitpick things they should have done (biggest for me is never getting a 3rd down pass receiving RB) but I just can't see how it's reasonable to use a season rampaged by injury as a sweeping indictment of the coach and how the GM has built the team. Basically every season since 2010 they have constructed a roster good enough to win the SB, even with all the nitpicks we can all come up with. Sure it's much easier with Rodgers but they have done it every year and without their 3 CBs and best pass rusher out I'm sure they'd be comfortably in first place battling for a by in the playoffs like normal. What team could got 11-5 or 12-4 when missing their top 3 CBs, best pass-rusher, and top 2 RBs. Plus countless other injuries to starters throughout the year. Maybe the Patriots I guess as long as Brady is healthy but that's about it.

[FVBrewerFan]

Basically every season since 2010 they have constructed a roster good enough to win the SB

 

What team could got 11-5 or 12-4 when missing their top 3 CBs, best pass-rusher, and top 2 RBs. Plus countless other injuries to starters throughout the year. Maybe the Patriots I guess as long as Brady is healthy but that's about it.

 

First part I'm quoting from you is a pretty strong indictment of MM. 5-6 years with a roster good enough to win the SB and never did. Or even MADE it to the SB. Lost at home in the playoffs at least twice I can remember in that stretch. Lost to the Seahawks in a game that should have been won. I know, you can't win the SB every year. But MM hasn't really even knocked on the door since the SB they won.

 

Your other comment, straw man. I never heard anyone expect a 12-4 season with the injuries they've had.

[tmwiese55]

Basically every season since 2010 they have constructed a roster good enough to win the SB

 

What team could got 11-5 or 12-4 when missing their top 3 CBs, best pass-rusher, and top 2 RBs. Plus countless other injuries to starters throughout the year. Maybe the Patriots I guess as long as Brady is healthy but that's about it.

 

First part I'm quoting from you is a pretty strong indictment of MM. 5-6 years with a roster good enough to win the SB and never did. Or even MADE it to the SB. Lost at home in the playoffs at least twice I can remember in that stretch. Lost to the Seahawks in a game that should have been won. I know, you can't win the SB every year. But MM hasn't really even knocked on the door since the SB they won.

 

Your other comment, straw man. I never heard anyone expect a 12-4 season with the injuries they've had.

 

They did win the SB in one of those years though. And just two seasons ago were a series of flukes away from being back while playing with Rodgers on one leg, which is a good sign of coaching/team building to have still made it that far. The problem with the rings or bust attitude is that each years there is 5-6 teams are built well enough to win the SB but only one can, you get into the playoffs against them and most games are 50/50 tossups on who wins on any given day. I just find it tough to really blame a coach for the crapshoot that is the NFL playoffs. And I was just using the 11-12 wins as what we're used to as a good season here, should they go 5-11? heck no, but winning 7-9 games is about all one should expect with this situation and as of now they'll probably do it.

 

Also, what we said earlier about it being easier with Rodgers to build a team. I forgot to mention that MM/TT should get credit for that rather than it being held against them. Nobody else would've had the balls to move on from Favre in order to not lose Rodgers. MM also greatly tweaked his mechanics and coached him up to the point where MM knew he was a star and didn't want to give him away. That foresight extended the GB glory years by 10 years already and got one SB they wouldn't have with any other coach/gm combo, they should be given some credit for that decision.

 

All that said, if there is multiple flat performances like the last one to finish I totally understand getting the pitchforks, that means the team isn't on board with him anymore. I just think we're a little early after one game especially given the track record they have here.

[FVBrewerFan]

I just find it tough to really blame a coach for the crapshoot that is the NFL playoffs.

 

I think this is the key to what I've been saying from the beginning. I don't blame MM. Or TT for that matter. I realize these discussions generally end up getting emotional with people wanting to "throw the bum out."

 

That's not at all where I'm coming from. It's very difficult in any sport to really know when it's time to move on and get a new GM. It's even tougher yet to know when it's time for a new HC. I mean, it's almost never as easy as "so and so sucks, they need to go" or "great coach don't even think about firing him."

 

I think we make the mistake of equating GM/HC jobs the same as ours. They're not. Sometimes it's just time to move on, and in my opinion that's where the Packers are at. It doesn't mean either TT/MM are bad at what they do.

[patrickgpe]

Packers claimed Christine Michael. I love the move and i hope he gets a fair shake at the RB position. Not sure if he is the long term answer but with pretty unimpressive RB performances week after week, lets see what happens.

[MrTPlush]

Packers claimed Christine Michael. I love the move and i hope he gets a fair shake at the RB position. Not sure if he is the long term answer but with pretty unimpressive RB performances week after week, lets see what happens.

 

I'd love the move if it wasn't so obvious. Good break for us and the running game.

[jerichoholicninja]

During Rodgers first year as a starter he spent most of the time running for his life. The next couple of years he would lose shootouts. His whole tenure has been playing behind patchwork lines, not having a running game, and, aside from a year or two, having to score more points than his suspect defense gives up. He is literally the only reason the Packers have been relevant since he was drafted. It's amazing how little has been done to improve any position outside of QB under Thompson. I guess Lacy might work out eventually but there were a few quality free agent RB's last offseason that really could have helped this team.

 

 

I disagree with just about everything you have said. Has Rodgers been special? Of course. Is it overblown in how bad his play has been the last 20 games? Absolutely. But there have been a lot of other good players for the Packers. This season is not the one you make a definitive statement on a guy like Ted Thompson. As much as I would like to see him step aside and let Wolf take over, you have to give him credit for building rosters each and every year that ARE good enough to win Super Bowls. This year, maybe not. But I would've liked to see what this team looked like had the injury bug not hit them. I think they'd be winning the division right now looking to gather steam towards the playoffs.

 

Obviously injuries are derailing this season but the overall talent level has been average for quite a few years. It seems the O-Line is an issue every year. I'll give them credit for getting Jeff Saturday a few seasons ago which was a great move until he got hurt. TE has been a black hole since Jermichael Finley. Aside from the converging seasons of Woodson, Peppers, and Matthews the defense has been average to crap. I'm not calling for anyone's head. Thompson has done a good job of building a consistently competitive team, luckily they play in what is a lackluster division most years.