2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[pacopete4]

Fan, short for fanatic. Every team has their extreme's with their fan base but it just feels like the Packers are the rich kid who has been told no and doesn't like it, throwing fits and making a fool of themselves. McCarthy is a very good to great head coach. We've been lucky to have a couple of Mike's lead us back to Super Bowl's and win them. Ted Thompson, while we can all pick and choose things to point out against him, his teams have been very good over his tenure. He's given his teams enough talent to win the Super Bowl unfortunately it just hasn't clicked at the right time or gotten the right breaks in the past couple of seasons.

[FVBrewerFan]

Winning the SB is not luck. It's beating the other team each round of the playoffs, and earning the SB. And I don't see anyone throwing fits. Packer fans are the most apathetic fans in the NFL, and will support MM forever. Sure, there will be a few who scream, but the vast majority are happy to make the playoffs.

 

Finally, to Plush's comment, yes it is saying a lot that MM would never win another SB with Aaron Rodgers. Ask that question 3-4 years and virtually everyone would have expected at least one more SB.

[MrTPlush]

Finally, to Plush's comment, yes it is saying a lot that MM would never win another SB with Aaron Rodgers. Ask that question 3-4 years and virtually everyone would have expected at least one more SB.

 

Sure who wouldn't expect another Super Bowl? It just didn't come to fruition. If I was going to blame anyone it would be Capers. The problem in the playoffs usually ends up being our defense getting burned not our offense sputtering. I don't think it is a talent thing either. If you ask me if anything that blame falls on Capers.

 

Everything has to line up at the right time to win a Super Bowl. You have to be healthy and firing on all cylinders. Sometimes that just doesn't happen. Sometimes you face a team that has everything going for them. There is luck involved.

[Point Beer Is Best]

The same people who are calling for MM/TT's heads are the same people who got upset they let Sitton go to replace him with Lane Taylor. It's certainly fair to question the timing (there were rumors of an altercation between Sitton and Sam Barrington over the Colin Kaeparnick controversy), but that move saved them $6M that freed up cash for the many pending free agents after this year. That may be the difference between being able to sign JC Tretter or watching him walk. The same people who complain they (almost) never sign free agents (they never sign a free agent who impacts the compensatory draft formula), disregarding the fact that their franchise model depends on acquiring cheap controllable talent and developing it while trying to retain their best players through extensions. Signing other team's cast-offs rarely works out because it a) deprives you of cash to spend on your own players and b) deprives your young players of valuable playing time to develop. Yes, there will be some bumps on the road along the way, but this model is the proven method of generating long-term success for teams like Green Bay, Pittsburgh and New England. The Seattle model worked because they hit on several guys in the draft and were able to sprinkle in free agents because their stars (Wilson, Sherman, other DB's, Wagner) were all on their rookie deals. Now that they've been paid or let go, they are maxed out in cap space and can't field a competent O-line. Minnesota splurged on the O-line in the offseason with Andre Smith and Alex Boone. And that is still their biggest weakness.

 

Draft, develop, and retain.

[tmwiese55]

The best team rarely wins the championship in all sports, especially NFL and CBB because it all comes down to one game. Therefore, luck/chance have a huge factor in it when teams are so evenly matched. Of course the players earn their win, but from a managerial and team building perspective all you can do is have a team good enough to be in it at the end and then hope it falls your way. The NBA is the only sport where the best team almost always wins. For example, if the Cubs don't win this or any of the next 4 years does that mean Epstein/Madden are failures? They clearly constructed the best team this year but might get screwed by freakish performances from Kluber/Miller in 3 of the games.

[MrTPlush]

Yah you can be doomed by the simplest things in football. Rodgers has a bad game? DONE. Blown coverage that leads to a TD? DONE. Miss a 30 yard field goal? DONE.

 

If there was no luck there should be a ton of undefeated seasons going on in the NFL. Except there aren't. Why? Because you have off weeks where you just don't play as well as you should. Even the best teams have weeks where they lose when they should have won and it has little to do with coaching. Sometimes those games come in January.

[Jose Cardenal1]

FVBrewerfan is correct in that McCarthy's time with the Packers has run its course. It happens. It is similar to Reid in Philadelphia and Shottenheimer in KC and soon Harbaugh in Baltimore. If you are not careful, a head coach, even though successful and respected, can end up being white noise in the locker room. Year after year of saying the same thing and running the same plays and never overachieving expectations breeds complacency and mediocrity.

 

One of the big reasons why I think Belichick is so successful is his staff. He views his job as coaching the staff who in turn coach the players. He is unafraid of turnover as he looses coordinators and coaches all the time to other teams. But this turnover brings a freshness to the program. McCarthy on the other hand has gone out of his way to not allow his staff to interview for some jobs thus leaving him possibly a less motivated but definitely less fresh staff. Every year in the NFL is brand new with a different wrinkle or emphasis. McCarthy and his staff (like many on this board) are stuck in the past and cant figure out why it isn't working anymore.

[FVBrewerFan]

Of course there's luck involved. But tmwiese said "Regardless, they were in the final four which means they're doing things right, it's just luck after that." That's what I'm challenging. I don't think ARod having a bad game is luck. If he does, and they lose, they deserve to lose because he played poorly. That's not luck, it's poor performance.

 

I agree with you on Capers too, but who's fault is that? MM is the HC. Very similar to the Counsell/Sedar thing. TT is to blame for the defense as well though, countless first round picks on busts and mediocre players.

 

Again, I still think TT is a good GM, and MM is a good football coach. Said that from the beginning. Sometimes it's just time for a change. Rarely is it ever clear-cut when to replace a coach in any sport, it's all gut.

 

The same people who are calling for MM/TT's heads are the same people who got upset they let Sitton go to replace him with Lane Taylor. The same people who complain they (almost) never sign free agents.

 

How do you know it's the same people? I had no problem with letting Sitton go, and I also have no problem with draft and develop. I DO have a problem with the Packers only making it to one SB in Aaron Rodgers career. That's all I care about- results. Doesn't matter to me if TT built the entire team with rookies, or all Free Agents. I don't care if defense dominates or they win games 48-45 every week. I never pick apart every move, every draft pick because we know far less that they do.

[MrTPlush]

Sad sad team to watch. The wide receivers still don't know how to get any seperation and it absolutely kills the offense. I just don't get why no one can seem to get open. Between that and all the injuries it seems this team just doesn't have it. Hopefully they can get healthy and scrape together enough wins to make the playoffs, but that is two defeating losses in a row.

 

I won't lose all hope. If not for starting the game off 7-0 things could have been a lot different. If they can figure out how to get receivers open they will win games. Unfortunately so far that just hasn't happened very consistently.

[Bombers]

Sad sad team to watch. The wide receivers still don't know how to get any seperation and it absolutely kills the offense. I just don't get why no one can seem to get open. Between that and all the injuries it seems this team just doesn't have it. Hopefully they can get healthy and scrape together enough wins to make the playoffs, but that is two defeating losses in a row.

 

I won't lose all hope. If not for starting the game off 7-0 things could have been a lot different. If they can figure out how to get receivers open they will win games. Unfortunately so far that just hasn't happened very consistently.

It's the lack of a running game and Rodgers just not seeing the field. I was at the game. Their receivers are blanketed as the DBs have no threat of it being a run and even on the rare chance it is, they know the front will handle it. As for Rodgers he just doesn't see the open guy. There were numerous times guys were open he he forces it to Adams or Jordy

[craigharmann]

Om Capers needs to go.

[bjkrautk]

Anyone else notice how lackluster the Packers have been in the 3rd quarter of games?

 

@Jac 3 points

@Min 0

Det 3

NYG 0

Dal 0

Chi 7

@Atl 0

Ind 3

 

8 games, 16 points.

Making matters worse: MM prefers deferring until the second half, meaning they've had the ball first in the 3Q more often than not.

 

I hate that the Packers offense fall asleep at halftime, whether it's non-motivation or failing to make adjustments...then plays with urgency in the 4th quarter (whether behind or losing their lead).

I hate that Rodgers holds the ball for low-percentage hero throws on 3rd and manageable, rather than moving the sticks.

 

Say what you will about the defense, but the Packers won the turnover battle...and lost the game when the offense went 4-for-12 on 3rd downs.

[MrTPlush]

Sad sad team to watch. The wide receivers still don't know how to get any seperation and it absolutely kills the offense. I just don't get why no one can seem to get open. Between that and all the injuries it seems this team just doesn't have it. Hopefully they can get healthy and scrape together enough wins to make the playoffs, but that is two defeating losses in a row.

 

I won't lose all hope. If not for starting the game off 7-0 things could have been a lot different. If they can figure out how to get receivers open they will win games. Unfortunately so far that just hasn't happened very consistently.

It's the lack of a running game and Rodgers just not seeing the field. I was at the game. Their receivers are blanketed as the DBs have no threat of it being a run and even on the rare chance it is, they know the front will handle it. As for Rodgers he just doesn't see the open guy. There were numerous times guys were open he he forces it to Adams or Jordy

 

Receivers weren't getting seperation when the running game was at full force. This has been a problem the entire year and it isn't because he is missing the open receivers(which happens from time to time). Rodgers will run around the field for 10 seconds and in man coverage not a single player will figure out how to get open. The receivers are flat out horrible in man coverage.

 

Didn't help the offensive line left a lot to be desired today.

 

Also maybe it is just me, but does anyone else find it strange they aren't trying to do a lot of no-huddle offense lately? I feel like they should try keeping the defense on their toes and not letting them set up their defensive schemes constantly.

[MrTPlush]

Om Capers needs to go.

 

Yah shame on him for not covering his receiver all game. Not sure what there is to complain about. He called a great play at the end that should have been a sack followed by a punt to get the ball back with a chance to win. Too bad our defender whiffed. I thought he did a good job. Don't be mad at him be mad at the players.

[pacopete4]

4-4 while not in a great spot playoff wise, definitely not out of it since Minnesota's momentum came screeching to a halt. Yes, Detroit is winning games as of late but they really don't scare me much. This team still has a fine chance at winning the division if they can get it together and stay afloat until the final three games of the season (at Bears, vs. Vikings, at Lions).

 

I am more concerned with Rodgers stating that there is a lack of effort/energy being put into the games. He seems to want to sheepishly call out guys after games but is he doing anything during practice? Before games? ect... It's just not a good sign when you hear things like this directly after a loss.

 

I do have a question, can the Packers cut Matthews in the offseason and save a bunch of money? I would rather they move on from him as he and Rodgers have become the "douchey duo" of the NFL and draft the OLB position and maybe look for a buy low type guy. I think he's a fine player if healthy but from the looks of it, he'll make over $10M the next two seasons for Green Bay. I just don't think he's worth that money for the production we get.

[fondybrewfan]

That is 2 straight games where the defense needed a stop at the end and they just couldn't get it. I know the secondary is short but the complete lack of a pass rush against a supposedly crappy OL is what did in the defense more than anything.

 

Offense was just a tick off again. Rodgers missed Jordy deep for a probably TD in the 1st Q I think and Janis also dropped a deep ball. I don't understand the focus on Richard Rodgers this game. A light wind will knock that guy over. And like has been said I remember a couple occasions where Rodgers through deep when there were other guys open.

 

Finally just stop with the back shoulder throws; it has literally worked only a couple times this year.

 

They need to win at least 2 of the next 3 games on the road to really stay in it; probably a tall order for this team right now

 

I am not sure if missing the playoffs or finishing with an 8-8 record is enough for a shakeup in the coaching staff or management but it will certainly intensify the hot seat in 2017 if things don't go well. Murphy and Thompson value continuity so much I just don't believe McCarthy is in danger.

[MrTPlush]

I am more concerned with Rodgers stating that there is a lack of effort/energy being put into the games. He seems to want to sheepishly call out guys after games but is he doing anything during practice? Before games? ect... It's just not a good sign when you hear things like this directly after a loss.

 

That just simply isn't true. He called out the entire team. What do you expect?

[FVBrewerFan]

I am not sure if missing the playoffs or finishing with an 8-8 record is enough for a shakeup in the coaching staff or management but it will certainly intensify the hot seat in 2017 if things don't go well. Murphy and Thompson value continuity so much I just don't believe McCarthy is in danger.

 

Sadly, I agree. Most of the Board, fans, and media are still looking back instead of forward. Just make a couple changes, execute, blah, blah, blah and this team can be great again. It's just like the guy at work YOU know is worthless but somehow he keeps hanging around year after year.

 

4-3, just lost a game, you come home and play completely un-inspired football? That should really tell us all something. I'm sick of this teasing defense that year after year is supposedly better, but in the end really is still very mediocre. Special Teams problems just move around, from punter, to coverage, to missing kicks, etc. Offense is a mix between predictability and Rodgers trying to force things.

 

With all that said, they could still sneak into the playoffs. That will save TT/MM for another 3 years.

[pacopete4]

I am more concerned with Rodgers stating that there is a lack of effort/energy being put into the games. He seems to want to sheepishly call out guys after games but is he doing anything during practice? Before games? ect... It's just not a good sign when you hear things like this directly after a loss.

 

That just simply isn't true. He called out the entire team. What do you expect?

 

Wasn't just referring to this game. He's laid blame on plenty of players, coaches, ect... in the past. I'm not even saying he's wrong just wondering what his leadership skills are in the locker room, practice field, before games, ect... He even deflected some of the low energy blame because he's not a "raw, raw" guy.

 

Maybe he and Clay just need to replay their State Farm commercial before the game to the team. Get the juices flowing a bit.

[MrTPlush]

He even deflected some of the low energy blame because he's not a "raw, raw" guy.

 

Which is 100% true. That just isn't in Aaron Rodger's personality. You aren't going to see Rodgers run through the locker room pumping guys up. I am not exactly sure who those guys are in the Packers locker room or on their bench, but obviously the energy isn't there and that is why Rodgers believes it might not be there.

 

No need to shoot the messenger. I am sure a lot of players would say the same thing, but they don't because everyone want to hear Rodgers and have him up at the podium. He is taking credit for what he is doing wrong. He admitted he flat out missed Nelson at one point. I believe him when he says they are doing things right in practice and it just isn't being executed. People want to complain about the deep ball, but if Nelson could see the one he may have gone the distance, if Janis doesn't whiff on his catch they have a big play, and there are many times we could easily have a big pass if the opposing defensive backs didn't hold/PI.

 

If they don't give up an opening kick off return and just one of those big passes connect we are celebrating right now.

 

Something has to change, but I am not so convinced it includes tearing down the coaching staff. Maybe it does, but at this point it is too early to tell in my opinion.

[FVBrewerFan]

If they don't give up an opening kick off return and just one of those big passes connect we are celebrating right now.

 

Works both ways. If Nelson doesn't catch a somewhat lucky TD (ball went right through defenders hands) and the Colts don't let their foot off the gas at the end, they could have won by 28.

[MrTPlush]

If they don't give up an opening kick off return and just one of those big passes connect we are celebrating right now.

 

Works both ways. If Nelson doesn't catch a somewhat lucky TD (ball went right through defenders hands) and the Colts don't let their foot off the gas at the end, they could have won by 28.

 

First one sure, the second example not so much. I am sure the Colts just decided to stop playing as hard.

 

Point is sometimes things go your way and sometimes they don't. I think people expect too much. I guess thats what you get after winning a Super Bowl and going 15-1. Not saying who they have in place is perfect, but to think you are going to make a bunch of non player changes and expect better results is probably wishful thinking.

[FVBrewerFan]

Well, I advocate bringing in anew GM as well, so there would be player changes as well.

 

You're right, we're spoiled. But I'm an older guy who remembers 20 years of suckiness. So when I see 30ish years of Favre/Rodgers and only two SBs, yes, I see this as a tremendous wasted opportunity. Losing multiple playoff games at home, coughing up a SB appearance in the Seattle loss, getting killed at home last year by the Lions and Bears, now this season's nonsense.

 

At some point it's time to say this regime has run it's course, and it's worth trying something new.

[3and2Fastball]

I'm a Packers fan. I just don't think they are that good this year. In today's NFL with extreme parity they are yet another of a multitude of 8-8 teams that could be 10-6 and go one & done in the playoffs. It happens. I still enjoy watching them.

 

They need more explosive playmakers & speed on offense. When Clay is out the defense is just OK to slightly above average. I have no illusions of them being title contenders this year so I'm not spending much time pointing fingers

[tmwiese55]

Very frustrating loss. But as far using this year as some grand judgment on the organization is a bit much. They're missing they're top 3 CBs and that is exactly where they've been killed the last two games. How many teams could survive playing multiple off the street free agents at DB? If they get through this and get to the playoffs that's all you can ask. Chances are that even with 2/3 of them playing the last two games they'd be 6-2 right now with a comfortable division lead and playing for home field.

 

and that doesn't even account for both RBs out, Mathews out. Though there is certainly blame for going into the year with only 2 RBs and not drafting a shifty receiving type 3rd down back for several years now.