2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[brewcrewdue80]

Yes, yes it is the worst all-time. Clock Management. Field Position. Greater possibility of getting a 1st down. There is only one other worst possible outcome than what happened, and that would have been a Pick-6...something that involves calling a pass play.

 

You run, get the 1st down another 2+mins are being taken off the clock.

You run, get stuffed and have to punt. 40secs run off the clock. and You pin NE inside the 20 playing field position.

 

So rather than have 80+ to go with nearly 1min less on the playclock. NE gets the TO ball on Atl's 25 and 40 more secs to work on their comeback.

 

You don't need that 1st down. You need time to run off that clock. You have a 3score lead and less than 9min to go. I'd understand, very little, but understand a decision the throw if you were up any less than 2 scores. But you were up 3scores. 3TDs or a FG, 2TDs AND 2 successful 2pt conversions.

 

Team stats finishing the game have Atl with over 5yards per rush. You had just gained 9yards in 2 attempts including 1 the play before, which was all you needed for a 1st down.

 

I mean gosh, the series before that one. after NE TD makes it 28-9. You recover Onside kick at NE's 41! Your playcalls are: pass complete 9yards at 32. run(holding) back to 42. Pass incomplete. Pass-sacked forced to punt end of 3rd quarter.

 

The Patriots tied the game with 57secs left. All it would have taken was clock managing run the ball, punt if you have to and force NE to play long fields down 3scores.

[MrTPlush]

They should have ran conservative plays to give them the best shot at a field goal. There was virtually no reason to be going for a TD. There should have been a 0% chance of getting sacked for 12 yards and should not have put themselves in a position to get a 10 yard penalty. It was a complete and utter fail by the Falcons coaching staff and Matt Ryan for getting sacked for that big of a loss. Even after that they should have run the ball as they were still in field goal range. That was a bigger fail than the Seahawks throwing the ball a couple years back. At least the Seahawks can say they were trying to catch the Patriots by surprise. There is absolutely no excuse or reasoning for the play selection and execution for the Falcons last night.

[homer]

It's quite possible they don't get the 3rd and 1. It's also quite possible Bryant misses a 49 yard field goal.

[tmwiese55]

I agree the 3rd and 1 was a bad call, but the quick call to say the most recent thing is 'all-time' is something wrong with people today. IMO, it wasn't even the worst call in that game, I'd call 2nd and 10 at the 22 later in the game worse. also, a run up the gut there that gets stuffed is also what many Packer fans on this board and all over WI have been complaining about for years from McCarthey, now we're blasting a guy for not doing it.

 

Overall, as if we know every call in the history of Super Bowls to be throwing at all-time so quickly. 95/100 times that play doesn't result in a fumble and it's inconsequential. A similar play call has probably been made a ton of times. Some ended up in a first down and no one thought of it again, others a punt and no one thought of it again. Just like after the game people were saying it was the best game ever, no it was the best comeback ever. The game was actually boring as heck for 3/4 of the game. Best games are ones that go back and forth so you're entertained the whole time.

 

Big pic the Seattle pass wasn't even a bad call if you look at clock management, timeouts and game theory. In short, they should've passed that down in order to guarantee they could use all downs and so both 3rd and 4th down could be either run or pass. If they ran there and didn't get it they would've had to use the TO. Which means they had to pass on 3rd. The mistake was simply on Wilson for not throwing a low pass that only his guy could catch, like we take for granted with Rodgers

[brwrsfan]

The other part of all of this (and I agree with all of you that it was a huge mistake both times), but was the fact that Atlanta WAS RUNNING THE BALL EFFECTIVELY. They were getting over 5 yards a carry. It's not like they were getting stuffed and kept going three and out. They simply got too cute or outsmarted themselves.

 

The Packers certainly got over-conservative, but it still took a near miracle for Seattle to win. We didn't make any stupid decisions like this or turn the ball over. And the other difference, we were up 16. They were up TWENTY FIVE. Those two pass play calls are ultimately what cost them the game. Yes, they could have gotten stuffed on third and 1 (doubtful IMO) and sure, Freeman could have fumbled but nobody faults you for doing the right thing. And sure, they could have missed the FG too, but that's not the coaches fault.

 

Coaches need to put their teams in the best positions to win, and smart decisions and play calling are part of that. And Atlanta completely screwed themselves there - take it a step further, despite being the ones winning all game, they were out of timeouts with 57 second left only needing a FG to win, might not have mattered, but that last drive might be different with 2-3 timeouts at your disposal.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yes, yes it is the worst all-time. Clock Management. Field Position. Greater possibility of getting a 1st down. There is only one other worst possible outcome than what happened, and that would have been a Pick-6...something that involves calling a pass play.

 

You run, get the 1st down another 2+mins are being taken off the clock.

You run, get stuffed and have to punt. 40secs run off the clock. and You pin NE inside the 20 playing field position.

 

So rather than have 80+ to go with nearly 1min less on the playclock. NE gets the TO ball on Atl's 25 and 40 more secs to work on their comeback.

 

You don't need that 1st down. You need time to run off that clock. You have a 3score lead and less than 9min to go. I'd understand, very little, but understand a decision the throw if you were up any less than 2 scores. But you were up 3scores. 3TDs or a FG, 2TDs AND 2 successful 2pt conversions.

 

Team stats finishing the game have Atl with over 5yards per rush. You had just gained 9yards in 2 attempts including 1 the play before, which was all you needed for a 1st down.

 

I mean gosh, the series before that one. after NE TD makes it 28-9. You recover Onside kick at NE's 41! Your playcalls are: pass complete 9yards at 32. run(holding) back to 42. Pass incomplete. Pass-sacked forced to punt end of 3rd quarter.

 

The Patriots tied the game with 57secs left. All it would have taken was clock managing run the ball, punt if you have to and force NE to play long fields down 3scores.

 

Actually, Atlanta was up by two scores at the time 28-12. With 8:30 to go. So getting a 1st down was important than 40 seconds in that situation. (Or at least you could make a case.) Running it on 3rd and 1 is no automatic 1st down as the Patriots were playing for that.

[brewcrewdue80]

I agree the 3rd and 1 was a bad call, but the quick call to say the most recent thing is 'all-time' is something wrong with people today. IMO, it wasn't even the worst call in that game, I'd call 2nd and 10 at the 22 later in the game worse. also, a run up the gut there that gets stuffed is also what many Packer fans on this board and all over WI have been complaining about for years from McCarthey, now we're blasting a guy for not doing it.

 

Overall, as if we know every call in the history of Super Bowls to be throwing at all-time so quickly. 95/100 times that play doesn't result in a fumble and it's inconsequential. A similar play call has probably been made a ton of times. Some ended up in a first down and no one thought of it again, others a punt and no one thought of it again. Just like after the game people were saying it was the best game ever, no it was the best comeback ever. The game was actually boring as heck for 3/4 of the game. Best games are ones that go back and forth so you're entertained the whole time.

 

Well the fact that all-time in Super Bowls no team had ever come from behind by more than 11pts. And you proceed to blow a 19pt lead with 9min. to go in the Super Bowl? Your franchise is 9min away from winning their 1st ever SB and all you have to do is sit on a 19pt lead. I think All-Time is appropriate. It took 51 SBs to have a comeback of more than 11 occur. What could possibly be the chances 25pts is ever accomplished? It'll be an All-Time SB choke. So it's the All-time worst Play call imo. coin flip I suppose for the 2nd and 11 at the 23 if you want. But the success rate I'd imagine on 3rd-1 running the ball was higher than Run blocking 2 more plays and a FG success to go up by 11. I know somewhere there are conversion rates of RBs on 3rd and 1. It was discussed with Rip/Lacy/Montgomery earlier in this thread. I don't know how to find it for Atlanta simple google search leads me nowhere. The standard 3rd down conversion rate for Atl was near 46% I think was the stats I seen.

 

Like I said, whether they convert or not, a run takes 40secs off the clock. a punt takes likely 50yards of field position, if not more away from NE. And obviously, a conversion which I'd imagine was better than 50% odds, would have led to more clock winding down, Patriots Timeouts? Maybe even a drive from that point that results in points. Any way you look at, your chances of holding on to a 19pt lead are far greater than what occurred. That is 100% true calling a run play right then.

[FVBrewerFan]

You keep saying 19 point lead. It was a 16 point lead.

[brwrsfan]

I guess if you want to make the argument that the pass on third and one was an ok option...that's fine.

 

But why not a play action pass (I could be remember this wrong, sorry if it was)? Why not a safe, quick pass? They did a deep drop on that play, 5 or 7 steps, giving the defense plenty of time to react and get to him. Even if you want to pass there, I think the pass they chose was very poor as well.

[tmwiese55]

The logic that it was the biggest comeback ever (knowing the outcome) is irrelevant to that specific playcall at the time. It's like a roulette wheel, every spin is it's own outcome. At some point (probably tons of times) in another Super Bowl, a team with a big lead passed and it didn't result in this outcome, yet it was still the same playcall and decision. ETA: Or if Atlanta would've still won just by not messing it up later to go up 11, then no one would be calling this play the worst ever, it wouldn't even be being talked about.

 

I'm not arguing they should've passed. I lean towards the conservative side and agree to just run it as they've had success all day at it. I'm just saying if the FB would've been wide open out of the backfield for an easy 1st no one would calling it the worst call ever. Or take their first play of one of those possessions, play action pass and the RB was uncovered and went for like 40 yards up towards the top sideline, no one is saying that was an awful playcall.

[Point Beer Is Best]

To quote the late Denny Green, "We let 'em off the hook!" That was a pretty epic collapse, and lots of blame to go around.

 

Two things that were stolen last night:

 

1) Tom Brady's game jersey was taken from the bags in his locker.

2) Tom Brady stole James White's MVP trophy.

[FVBrewerFan]

The logic that it was the biggest comeback ever (knowing the outcome) is irrelevant to that specific playcall at the time. It's like a roulette wheel, every spin is it's own outcome. At some point (probably tons of times) in another Super Bowl, a team with a big lead passed and it didn't result in this outcome, yet it was still the same playcall and decision. ETA: Or if Atlanta would've still won just by not messing it up later to go up 11, then no one would be calling this play the worst ever, it wouldn't even be being talked about.

 

I'm not arguing they should've passed. I lean towards the conservative side and agree to just run it as they've had success all day at it. I'm just saying if the FB would've been wide open out of the backfield for an easy 1st no one would calling it the worst call ever. Or take their first play of one of those possessions, play action pass and the RB was uncovered and went for like 40 yards up towards the top sideline, no one is saying that was an awful playcall.

 

Right or wrong, they didn't want to give it back to Brady, needing only two scores in over 8:00 minutes. They also knew the Patriots were playing the run on that play. Very different situation, so we can't just say they were running well all day, so easy 1st down run. Far from it. Could/should they have had a quick hitter? Probably.

 

But you're right, this decision is picked apart to death, yet nobody points out how the defense gave up 3 TDs and 2 Two-Point conversions in the Patriots last 3 drives of the game. Not to mention two more scoring drivers in the 2nd half. It takes a whole team to come back and win a game lie that, but it takes a whole team to lose it too.

[LouisEly]

Two things that were stolen last night:

 

1) Tom Brady's game jersey was taken from the bags in his locker.

2) Tom Brady stole James White's MVP trophy.

I think the first is karma for the 2nd.

 

Or James White got his own retribution.

[LouisEly]

ATL was also snapping the ball with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock.

And this is why Aaron Rodgers is the MVP, not Matt Ryan, because the only time you would ever see Rodgers snap the ball with that much time left is if he was trying to catch the defense with 12 men on the field. Rodgers is a master of letting the clock run down, trying to read the defense and their scheme, and audibling out of a play if he sees something he doesn't like.

 

If Rodgers had Freeman and Coleman instead of a converted WR and a waiver claim he would be setting records.

[brewcrewdue80]

Time of possession at the end of the game was a little over 17minutes in NE's favor. So the TD drive 6:25

Atl went 3 and out...well technically 4 given the penalty. 2:15

NE 12play FG 5:07

Atl the 3play fumble drive 1:20

NE 5 play TD 2:28

Atl 6 play 2nd bad call 2:26

NE 10play TD tie 2:33 to go 91yards

Atl end of regulation 57secs

NE 75 GW TD 3:58.

 

total is Atl 6:01 with 57secs end of game.

NE 20:31 That's gassing the Defense. Being on the field 80% of the time for 26:32 of game time.

Atl ran 13plays and 6:01 off the clock An average of 27.8secs per play. They could have knelt on the ball and used up more clock and more likely won the game. because you remove the Fumble. The defense did it part early. While they gave up the first TD and the FG it took over 11min. to score 9 points in a 25point game. Vs. giving them a break you put them back on the field at their 25.

 

3rd and 1 call, a defense in that situation is going sell out for a run. So a rusher coming around the corner should have been expected. And I think there was a playaction...half-assed that put the RB out of position in selling it. Ryan has a big part in the blame that he doesn't just kneel down feeling the pressure. Just the events of that game once that XP was missed. Atl did 3 plays right which were all the 1st down calls. And proceeded to make the absolute perfect scenario every call else to give the Patriots a chance to win the game.

[superfly]

ATL was also snapping the ball with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock.

And this is why Aaron Rodgers is the MVP, not Matt Ryan, because the only time you would ever see Rodgers snap the ball with that much time left is if he was trying to catch the defense with 12 men on the field. Rodgers is a master of letting the clock run down, trying to read the defense and their scheme, and audibling out of a play if he sees something he doesn't like.

 

If Rodgers had Freeman and Coleman instead of a converted WR and a waiver claim he would be setting records.

 

Tom Brady is the MVP. I don't think there's any debate about it until he hangs up the cleats...dude didn't even have Gronkowski or a legitimate WR and still dominates. Rodgers is a fairly close but unquestioned 2nd in line.

[FVBrewerFan]

 

3rd and 1 call, a defense in that situation is going sell out for a run. So a rusher coming around the corner should have been expected. And I think there was a playaction...half-assed that put the RB out of position in selling it. Ryan has a big part in the blame that he doesn't just kneel down feeling the pressure. Just the events of that game once that XP was missed. Atl did 3 plays right which were all the 1st down calls. And proceeded to make the absolute perfect scenario every call else to give the Patriots a chance to win the game.

 

So, it wasn't a horrible call, just not eexcited properly? You haven't acknowledged that it was a 16 point game at the time, not 19 as you were saying.

[DHonks]

Glad I placed two money line wagers on the Patriots to win late in the first half! True Hail Mary's.

[nodakfan17]

ATL was also snapping the ball with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock.

And this is why Aaron Rodgers is the MVP, not Matt Ryan, because the only time you would ever see Rodgers snap the ball with that much time left is if he was trying to catch the defense with 12 men on the field. Rodgers is a master of letting the clock run down, trying to read the defense and their scheme, and audibling out of a play if he sees something he doesn't like.

 

If Rodgers had Freeman and Coleman instead of a converted WR and a waiver claim he would be setting records.

This is why I'm surprised Matt Ryan made the All-Pro Team and won the MVP by such wide margins. Not to mention he had Julio Jones.

[young guns]

One thing i havent seen mentioned was atlantas poor performance in the last minute. The decision to bring the kickoff out started a pretty poor attempt at a game winning drive. [sarcasm]Rodgers would have driven them down for 2 game winning field goals in that amount of time.[/sarcasm]

[brewcrewdue80]

 

3rd and 1 call, a defense in that situation is going sell out for a run. So a rusher coming around the corner should have been expected. And I think there was a playaction...half-assed that put the RB out of position in selling it. Ryan has a big part in the blame that he doesn't just kneel down feeling the pressure. Just the events of that game once that XP was missed. Atl did 3 plays right which were all the 1st down calls. And proceeded to make the absolute perfect scenario every call else to give the Patriots a chance to win the game.

 

So, it wasn't a horrible call, just not eexcited properly? You haven't acknowledged that it was a 16 point game at the time, not 19 as you were saying.

 

Oh man, you're right I mixed up that possession with the Onside kick possession prior.

 

I still believe it's an all-time horrible call. To call a pass play there and the way a game can change by a Sack/fumble or Int, besides how well the Avg running gain per play was at that point(I'd imagine over 6yards vs the 5.6 it finished at)

 

Run play guarantees the clock runs. Incomplete passes clock stops. You gain 9yards in 2 carries have 3rd and 1 which you should have been stoked to have. I'd have run still regardless if it were 3rd and 10. Clock management, field position you had it. You'd won that with the big gain dumping to the RB 1st play call after the Kickoff.

 

What's odd is Atlanta had this exact scenario in their final game of the regular season, vs. New Orleans. Up 25pts heading to 4th quarter. Ran the ball 6 out of the 8 offensive plays they ran. 1 pass on 3rd and 5 must have been behind line of scrimmage lost 3 yards. the other pass on 3rd and 6 and incomplete. New Orleans scored 19pts-3TDs 2missed 2pt conversions. Recovered an onside kick to help their cause.

4:35 burned off the clock but NO had used 2 timeouts which is my point with the run call on 3rd and 1. If you gained the 1st down, obviously more time is taken off the clock. If NE stopped you, and having been corrected down 2 scores, would have most likely stopped the clock there. If not, you're booting the ball, with a guy who kicks 55yard punts with ease.

You just wonder what is going through their heads? You don't think what you'd do if you were needing to come back from 25,19,16, and 8pts down? What you need to happen to do so? It's like in their mind the game was only 3pts. and you need to score. I'll never understand the playcalling mistakes. How you can ruin 2 FG range postions, and a 3rd and 1 wedged in between. The epic fails after managing a game to have a 28-3 lead.

[MrTPlush]

What made it so bad was they called some of the worst plays one could possibly draw up and executed them horribly.

 

3:56 to play (2nd-11)

This is field goal range and not that long of a field goal. It would have been 40 yards or a tad shorter. Everyone says the Patriots were selling out for the run and I really don't buy it. They had 5 guys on the line and one linebacker playing close. They could have easily come up with a play to gain positive yards there. Instead they call a long pass play that risks your QB dropping back too far and getting sacked. Exactly what happened...whoops.

 

It is brutal that they were thinking touchdown when it did little to help them as an 11 point lead would make their odds to win almost 100%. Getting a touchdown wouldn't have helped those odds much. They just needed to focus on the field goal and not put themselves in a prime position for disaster. They had a great kicker who was 16/17 beyound 30 yards all year long.

 

They were in prime position for a 30-40 yard field goal and somehow found the only way to blow it.

[bjkrautk]

Packers news: Starks and Shields were both released earlier this week.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/02/08/shields-announces-departure-packers/97638250/

[pacopete4]

Neither are shocks but we sure do need to replace Shields. His hole was glaring this season. Needs to be addressed in a hurry.

[GAME05]

Just draft a CB in the 5th round and insert him as a starter, right?