2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[CheezWizHed]

My FA take:

 

TE: Jared Cook. Slam dunk decision. Should be easy to do as he wants to be back. Played great with Rodgers (having a real QB for the first time in his life). Offense looked completely different with him on the field.

 

DB: Berry would be nice, but given our needs, I pass on a safety FA. Signing someone like Trumaine Johnson would be brilliant if they cut Shields. Depending on Hyde's contract, I'd love him back, but not for starter DB money. If they lose Hyde, I think Gunter would be a great replacement for him. Both are smart and instinctive football players with not great speed.

 

OLB: Pass on Peppers. Nick Perry should be resigned. Yes to Elliot because he is an RFA. First round draft pick or another FA should be a target. Dante Jones if he comes cheap, but no tears shed if he takes his bone-headed fouls somewhere else. Pass rush was non-existent last year. Matthews starts great at OLB, but wears down and "disaapears" late in the season. Moving him back to ILB is the wise move at this point. He can still pass rush on third downs or blitzes, but he will be more effective there.

 

OL: I think you need to target Lang or Tretter, but not both. I'd be happy either way. Barclay- lets just move on please? I cringe every time he is in there.

 

RB: Again, Lacy or Michael. Lacy looked better last year, but still not someone to spend a lot of money on. Michael looks fast...very fast. I'd love to see what he can do after one TC and knowing the playbook. If he is still thick headed, move on.

 

LS: Goode - should be a lock again. Cheap and we showed some loyalty to going back to him after his injury.

[CheezWizHed]

My $0.002 (less than 2 cents) on TT's drafts. Since the question of "starter quality" vs. "starter ability" has been posed, I'll look at the drafts based on ability. For busts, I only considered picks in the 1-3 rounds or 4-5th round that couldn't make the first year.

 

2005

Starter Quality: Rodgers(1), Collins(2), Poppinga(4) - What a way to set the bar in your drafting career! Poppinga was a nice find in the 4th. Never great, but an ok starter.

Contributor: Underwood(4), Coston(5), Montgomery(6), Whittacker(7) - Back-up depth and special teamers.

Busts: Terrance Murphy(2) - A bad-luck injury is the main reason he never left the starting gate.

 

2006

Starter Quality: Hawk(1), Colledge(2), Jennings(2), Spitz(3), Jolly(6) - Hawk was starter quality, but a disappointment at the 5th pick of the draft. Colledge/Spitz were fringe Pro-Bowl guards. Jennings was a great find. Jolly had a couple years at starter quality before the Kool-aid got him.

Contributor: Blackmon(4), Moll(5), Culver(6), Tollefson(7) - Blackmon had a long career as a returner and nickel/dime DB - even after the Packers.

Busts: Abdul Hodge(3), Corey Rodgers(4)

 

2007

Starter Quality: Jones(3), Babre(4), Crosby(6)

Contributor: Brandon Jackson(2), Corey Hall(6), Desmond Bishop(6), DeShawn Wynn(7) - Some starts out of these guys but overall were under starter quality.

Busts: Harrell(1), Rouse(3), David Clowney(5) - Biggest busts in TT's career came here. Rouse was close to contributor, but was more of a tease than anything.

 

2008

Starter Quality: Nelson(2), Finley(3), Sitton(4), Flynn(7) - Flynn is fringe starter quality, but getting him in the 7th round makes up for it. Nelson and Finley caused MANY groans with the post-draft analysis, but they couldn't be more wrong.

Contributor: Pat Lee(2), Jeremy Thompson(4), Breno Giacomini(6), Brett Swain(7). - Lee and Thompson are fringe busts, but did contribute for a while.

Busts: Brian Brohm(2) - TT's second biggest bust. At least this was "covered" by drafting Flynn and having Rodgers.

 

2009

Starter Quality: Raji(1), Matthews(1), Lang(4)

Contributor: Brad Jones(7), Wynn(6), Meredith(5) - Jamon Meredith didn't do anything for the Pack, but made a nice career as a backup OG with a number of starts

Busts: None.

 

2010

Starter Quality: Bulaga(1), Burnett(3)

Contributor: Neal(2), Quarless(5), Starks(6), Wilson(7), Newhouse(5) - There were a number of starts from these players that I would consider under NFL quality starts. Newhouse did start elsewhere too.

Busts: None.

 

2011

Starter Quality: Cobb(2), House(4) - House just didn't start for us...

Contributor: None - This draft had 6 players drafted after the 5th round that didn't contribute or barely contributed. They aren't busts (by my standard), but that is a lot of misses.

Busts: Derek Sherrod(1), Alex Green(3)

 

2012

Starter Quality: Hayward(3), Daniels(4)

Contributor: Perry(1) - Nick is fringe, but not quite there... There were another 4 picks in the 4-7th rounds that were minimal contribution to nothing at all.

Busts: Jerel Worthy(2)

 

2013

Starter Quality: Lacy (2), Bakhtiari(4), Tretter (4), Hyde(5), Charles Johnson(7) - Tretter hasn't started much, but is quality when he does. Hyde is our best nickel DB, so good enough. Johnson made it with the Vikings.

Contributor: Jones(1), Boyd(5), Palmer(6), Barrington(7) - Jones starts, but not a great contribution for a 1st round pick.

Busts: Johnathan Franklin(4)

 

2014

Starter Quality: Clinton-Dix (1), Adams (2), Linsley(5) - CD and Adams proved it this year. Linsley was the most impressive rookie

Contributor: Rodgers(3), Abbrederis(5), Janis(7) - Richard has started and made great plays, but is a far cry from a Jared Cook type TE.

Busts: Khyri Thornton(3), Carl Bradford (4)

 

2015 - Too early to tell:

Randall(1), Rollins(2), Montgomery(3) - The jury is really still out here. R&R looked like starter quality their rookie year. Regressed massively this year. Montgomery played enough at RB to show the potential this year. Next year will be a tell-tale for all three.

Ryan (4), Hundley(5), Ripkowski(6) - Technically starting, but not sure about quality yet. Ryan made big improvements this year, but still needs to continue. Rip did also and was a major factor down the last half of the season, but still is a FB who can run the ball. I can't count him in the starter bin yet. Hundley looks the part in ST. Nothing else to judge him by at the moment.

Busts: None. A couple low picks look like they won't make it, but still not a bust.

 

2016 - Way too early to tell

Kenny Clark (1) and Jason Spriggs(2) already look like starter capable guys. My prediction is that Clark busts out big time in the next two years.

Martinez (4) and Lowry (4) both have been contributing in a major way with starter potential. Martinez looks like he could be a good cover ILB with decent instincts.

Fackrell(3) and Davis(5) are both enticing players. Fackrell needs to live in the weight room this year. Davis needs to live with Aaron Rodgers.

Murphy (6) - Another guy that needs to live in the weight room. Reminds me a bit of Mark Tauscher (doughboy body, smart player). Played ok in ST.

Busts: None. All draftees showed something this year and remained on the roster. Murphy was the only one that didn't really contribute this year.

 

From 2005-2010 we have:

Starting Quality: 20 total, 3.3 average

Contributions: 24 total, 4.0 average

Busts: 6 total, 1.2 average

 

From 2011-2014 (looking at recent history):

Starting Quality: 12 total, 3.0 average.

Contributions: 8 total, 2.0 average

Busts: 6 total, 1.5 average

 

So, just looking at this, it doesn't seem that TT is doing that bad on finding starting caliber players, but has really gotten worse at the contributors (fringe starter, solid backups, ST players). Especially bad were the 2011 and 2012 drafts. But 2015 and 2016 have potential to be very good drafts if some of the key players take the necessary improvement steps.

 

But regardless of TT being able to find starting caliber players in the draft, I think there is enough evidence to say that its just not enough. It worked in 2010 (after a string of very good drafts). But plenty of years where it was close, but one major glaring weakness torpedoed the ship. That is where I think Ron Wolf did better by bringing in guys to fill the gaps. (Reggie White, Santana Dotson, Eugene Robinson, Desmond Howard, and Frankie Winters all come to mind from the 1996 SB year). That is one big star (White) and one medium FA sign (Santana) and 3 cast-off pickups that worked well in our system. Robinson was a late training camp trade when Wolf saw a hole at safety.

 

I think that is the approach we need to get back to so that we aren't wasting Rodger's time with the team.

[brewcrewdue80]

The Packers have $44M in cap space upcoming if you include Sam Shields leaving ($8.2M freed). So it shouldn't be a huge problem to sign whatever team FAs there are.

 

I'd like to bring back Lacy for next year. He's a perfect candidate for a one-year prove-it contract, and that would make for really interesting substitutions and combinations with Montgomery.

 

Matthews is a $15M cap hit. I'd like him back to help with the lackluster pass rush, but I really wonder if his production and injury history really justifies the second biggest cap hit on the team.

 

I've seen Logan Ryan (CB, New England) bandied about as the best gettable FA. It'd be nice to get a veteran CB on the team and then focus a bit more on pass rush and linebackers in the draft.

 

Part of my concerns towards a Logan Ryan, is quite frankly, the terrible QBs NE played for almost the entire season. And only 2 int to show for it.

Carson Palmer-6tackles 0PD/int Larry Fitzgerald cover

Ryan Tannenhill- 7tackles 0PD/Int 1 FF Davante Parker cover-100+yards

Brock Osweiler- 4tackles 1PD/0Int Will Fuller/Jon Grimes cover

Tyrod Taylor- 17tackles 0PD/0Int Charles Clay 47yds/Robert Woods 89yds or spy backfield. RB tackles.

Charlie Whitehurst/Cody Kessler- 2tackles 0PD/0Int Terrelle Pryor cover

Andy Dalton- 5tackles 0PD/0Int Reads as AJ Green early and moved away from. 3 15yd+ catches then different defender on Green.

Landry Jones- 4tackles 1PD/0Int Cobi Hamilton or spy backfield

Tyrod Taylor-4tackles 0PD/0Int Didn't have Woods this game, seems spy/Walt Powell or just avoided after big game previously

Russell Wilson-3tackles 1PD/0Int Name came up vs Jimmy Graham.

Colin Kaepernick- 3tackles 2PD/0Int Quitton Patton/Jeremy Kerley and Carlos Hyde

Ryan Fitzpatrick- 7tackles 2PD/0Int Brandon Marshall TD/removed off/ Spy/RB coverage

Jared Goff- 5tackles 1sack 0PD/0Int Brian Quick/Tyler Higbee

Joe Flacco- 7tackles 0PD/0Int Kamar Aiken/Mike Wallace

Trevor Semian-7tackles 0PD/1Int Seems roamer Name pops up 5 different targets. Demarious Thomas 2twice, AJ Derby twice, INT on Emannuel Sanders.

Bryce Petty/Ryan Fitzpatrick- 4tackles 1PD/0Int Charone Peak PD/tackles on rushes.

Matt Moore- 7tackles 0PD/1Int Dion Sims Int/Kenny Stills/Jarvis Landry everywhere seems game End of Reg Season

 

Post Season

Brock Osweiler-7tackles 1sack 2PD/1Int Keith Mumphrery PD/Akeem Hunt/Deandre Hopkins PD+Int

Ben Roethlisberger- 9tackles 1PD/0Int David Johnson/Eli Rogers/Antonio Brown/Deangelo Williams/Cobi Hamilton PD

 

Overall it reads like Logan Ryan went from cover CB and moved to Slot CB. Early responsibility on main WR to removed and less responsibility. I don't see the big time names being responsible for and I gotta say seemed he was burned a lot for deep passes and left more responsibility when removed from top receivers to slot/soft zone/spy responsibles. But that's just me reading the game logs and not watching any film. TDs don't give reference who was defending. Still overall, I'm thinking there's some overrating going on to him.

[nodakfan17]

It was nice to see Jordy win the award for Comeback Player of the Year.

 

Kurt Warner was an interesting HOF selection. It's hard to argue against 2 MVP's and a Super Bowl win, but there's a pretty large void in his resume from 2002-2007 when he was 8-23 as an intermittent starter behind Marc Bulger, Eli Manning, and Matt Leinart. As a starting QB, he only had 5 seasons with a winning record (1999, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2009).

[stoutdude04]

It was nice to see Jordy win the award for Comeback Player of the Year.

 

Kurt Warner was an interesting HOF selection. It's hard to argue against 2 MVP's and a Super Bowl win, but there's a pretty large void in his resume from 2002-2007 when he was 8-23 as an intermittent starter behind Marc Bulger, Eli Manning, and Matt Leinart. As a starting QB, he only had 5 seasons with a winning record (1999, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2009).

 

Agreed. And TO not even making the final 10 is a joke.

[jerichoholicninja]

It was nice to see Jordy win the award for Comeback Player of the Year.

 

Kurt Warner was an interesting HOF selection. It's hard to argue against 2 MVP's and a Super Bowl win, but there's a pretty large void in his resume from 2002-2007 when he was 8-23 as an intermittent starter behind Marc Bulger, Eli Manning, and Matt Leinart. As a starting QB, he only had 5 seasons with a winning record (1999, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2009).

 

Agreed. And TO not even making the final 10 is a joke.

 

Kurt Warner is the poster boy for Super Bowl's being the only thing that matters in the NFL. He had a darn good career but is no where near hall of fame worthy. Was he ever even a top 5 QB at any point during his career?

[nodakfan17]

Kurt Warner has 67 career wins. Jay Cutler has 68.

[FVBrewerFan]

Terrell Davis very questionable too. The a Kurt Warner of RBs.

[nodakfan17]

Wow. I have never admitted it until now, but Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

Matt Ryan is pretty good, but not elite. Should have picked the white jerseys, Falcons.

[LouisEly]

Atlanta's coaching staff with a colossal screw up. You are on the other team's 20 yard line and need just a field goal to go up by two scores... and you pass the ball. Sacked, then pass again - holding penalty.

 

RUN THE BALL, USE THE CLOCK, KICK THE FIELD GOAL.

 

I want to see a deflated football on the top of the Lombardi trophy.

[homer]

ATL was also snapping the ball with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock.

[nodakfan17]

2014 Packers pop a cork - no longer the worst collapse in NFL history!

[LouisEly]

Look at the Patriot's roster and the number of guys drafted by other teams who they have acquired via FA or trades:

 

Martellus Bennett

Alan Branch

Chris Long

Shea McClellin

Eric Rowe

Kyle Van Noy

 

The last two acquired in-season. They aren't afraid to go and get the pieces they need.

[pacopete4]

Look at the Patriot's roster and the number of guys drafted by other teams who they have acquired via FA or trades:

 

Martellus Bennett

Alan Branch

Chris Long

Shea McClellin

Eric Rowe

Kyle Van Noy

 

The last two acquired in-season. They aren't afraid to go and get the pieces they need.

 

Yeah but we're "close" to the Patriots in success according to Mark Murphy. So that is something.

[brewcrewdue80]

Atlanta's coaching staff with a colossal screw up. You are on the other team's 20 yard line and need just a field goal to go up by two scores... and you pass the ball. Sacked, then pass again - holding penalty.

 

RUN THE BALL, USE THE CLOCK, KICK THE FIELD GOAL.

 

I want to see a deflated football on the top of the Lombardi trophy.

 

The game changer was 28-9. Nice gain to 33. 1st down 8yards. 2nd down 1more yard both rushes. Youre up 3scores, 3rd and 1 at 42 your punter avg over 50yards. Whats ypur play call? Long developing pass play. Strip sacked at 25.

 

You can list dumbest playcalling SB all-time and that may overtake Pete Carroll's pass call at the 5foot line. And Ill hand the award above it because the dual choke play call. Now 8pt lead 1st down at 22 fg range. Run lose 1 who cares? Youre about to score expend a Pats TO. Nope, long developing pass play sacked 12yard loss! But, still in FG range. Pass call, pass call less than 40secs run off the clock when you had 2nd and 11 to go at the 23.

 

Just remarkable the Luck to win their last 2SBs. Both should have been losses.

 

 

Edit Add: Literally, if they just kneel on the ball the next 3 plays once they got to the 22. 2mins or 0 TOs and 3mins left in game FG attempt to go up 2scores under those 2 scenarios. The plays called at that point is like sending Pitchers up in the bottom of the 9th bases loaded to face Aroldis Chapman.

[RobDeer 45]

I'll just throw this in here. Wow, what a Super Bowl! I thought there was no way possible for the Pats to come back. What an unreal game to watch.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people that Don't like Brady on here, but seriously, how good is he? I'm glad that I've been able to witness his greatness. Between him and Bill, they really are on a whole different level.

[homer]

Ryan's fumble was huge. I don't think Pats win without it. Freeman totally whiffed on that block.

[fondybrewfan]

It didn't feel like a Packers/Seahawks choke because there wasn't that one bone headed play that sticks out (Bostick) but yeah at the Super Bowl party I was at everyone was questions the play calling when they got to the 22. Just like that game once the Patriots won the OT toss you just knew they would go down and score.

 

Also those catches by Julio Jones and Edelman were insane.

 

I don't know how I would be handling things this morning if I were a Falcons fan. They were up 25 points with 2 minutes left in the 3rd Q.

[homer]

Not to mention NE had to overcome missing an extra point and then had to execute not one but two 2 point conversions just to tie the game.

[pacopete4]

I don't even feel bad for the Falcons. Went into the game somewhat cheering for them to get their first but they deserved this for how they finished last nights game. When the Pats were on the comeback through the fourth quarter, I felt like a Russian watching Rocky take on Drago. Something inside me switched and I was rooting for Brady to march them down the field and tie that game up. It was also nice to see a Badger win one and have such an impact. So much so, he should've been the MVP.

[FVBrewerFan]

Falcons showed why NFL coaches always want to play it safe with a big lead. As fans we always want a team to put the foot on the gas when they're winning by a wide margin.

 

I think the Falcons really wanted to put one more TD on the board for the dagger, and it backfired. Would have been safer to run a lot more up 25, and the clock would have taken care of the rest.

[brewcrewdue80]

Fresh morning and I can safely say this now. 3rd and 1 up 19 at the 42 yard line and calling a pass play is the Worst Playcall in NFL History all-time.

[homer]

Falcons showed why NFL coaches always want to play it safe with a big lead. As fans we always want a team to put the foot on the gas when they're winning by a wide margin.

 

I think the Falcons really wanted to put one more TD on the board for the dagger, and it backfired. Would have been safer to run a lot more up 25, and the clock would have taken care of the rest.

 

But that can also backfire. Packers got too conservative against Seattle in 2014. To me the only really inexcusable thing is snapping the ball in the 4th quarter with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock. I mean that is at least one thing you have total control over.

[tmwiese55]

But look how many more fluke things needed to happen for that Seattle comeback. If Atl runs the 3rd and 1, regardless if they get it, they probably don't even have a sweat. Then after getting to the 22 if they just slam standard running plays the only way they lose would need to involve an onside kick, obviously assuming he makes the kick to go up 11.

[FVBrewerFan]

Falcons showed why NFL coaches always want to play it safe with a big lead. As fans we always want a team to put the foot on the gas when they're winning by a wide margin.

 

I think the Falcons really wanted to put one more TD on the board for the dagger, and it backfired. Would have been safer to run a lot more up 25, and the clock would have taken care of the rest.

 

But that can also backfire. Packers got too conservative against Seattle in 2014. To me the only really inexcusable thing is snapping the ball in the 4th quarter with 15 - 20 seconds on the play clock. I mean that is at least one thing you have total control over.

 

Oh, no question going conservative can and does cost you a game as well. I'm just saying this is why coaches are so afraid to keep the pedal down.

 

But you're right, just by taking more time each snap, running the ball just a little more, etc. they could have had a lot more time tick away.

 

Finally, passing on 3rd and 1 wasn't a horrible decision, but a pass play that required a deep drop by the QB was.