2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[danzig6767]

Yea, Ted has whiffed to often on defensive picks. The lack of speed and playmakers on that side of the ball is glaring.

[brwrsfan]

The big issue for me isn't that he's missed on draft picks (though the number he's missed on is slightly alarming). But the bigger issue is his pure stubbornness about it. It should be clear that a pick has failed, but he sticks with them way longer than he should in most cases. And when it becomes clear there is an issue, he just flat out refuses to use the other avenues to build a team (trades and free agency).

 

It's glaringly obvious that our defense is slow and lacks coverage skills and playmakers...it cost us our season this year and without Rodgers performing at an unreal level the last 6-7 games, we likely miss the playoffs solely because of it. it's very hard or almost impossible to win a Super Bowl with a defense in the bottom 5 of the entire league.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The big issue for me isn't that he's missed on draft picks (though the number he's missed on is slightly alarming). But the bigger issue is his pure stubbornness about it. It should be clear that a pick has failed, but he sticks with them way longer than he should in most cases. And when it becomes clear there is an issue, he just flat out refuses to use the other avenues to build a team (trades and free agency).

.

 

Yeah...... it's one thing to say "this is the way I like to do things/this is my system". But when the guy is unwilling to bend even when the overwhelming evidence supports a viewpoint that says "your way isn't working bruh", then there's a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

[homer]

Bob McGinn's (Journal/Sentinel) 2016 ratings of the Packers was in the paper today. Overall he gave the team a 3.11 out of 5. A 3 rates as "so-so" on his scale. So, a team that makes it to the NFC championship is so-so? If they won the Super Bowl would that have bumped them "all the way up" to a 4 or "good"? Seems like some pretty tough grading.

 

edit: He also gave Rodgers a rating of 3.45. So, a MVP candidate who pretty much carried the team on his back for an 8 game stretch is somewhere between so-so and good.

 

It's a 16 game season. Very possible that Rodgers was a 2.5 for the first 10 games and a 4.25 the last 6 games. You can't disregard the first 10 games of the season.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Tom Clements is leaving to "pursue other interests" since his contract has expired. McCarthy said that will be the only staff change.

[Point Beer Is Best]

After reading some more tweets, it doesn't sound like McCarthy is committed to Capers as being the actual DC though. I wonder if he is leaving the door open to promote Winston Moss or Darren Perry to be the DC with Capers becoming an adviser.

[patrickgpe]

After reading some more tweets, it doesn't sound like McCarthy is committed to Capers as being the actual DC though. I wonder if he is leaving the door open to promote Winston Moss or Darren Perry to be the DC with Capers becoming an adviser.

well i know its late in the game and most good candidates are gone., but if they are going to dump Capers, i see little advantage of just promoting internally. this is what the packers did for years and years as they went through DC's every few years before they went outside and got capers. Honestly i would rather hire Rex Ryan as DC then promote Moss or Perry.

[DuWayne Steurer]

After reading some more tweets, it doesn't sound like McCarthy is committed to Capers as being the actual DC though. I wonder if he is leaving the door open to promote Winston Moss or Darren Perry to be the DC with Capers becoming an adviser.

 

At his age, I don't see Capers sticking around to be the LB coach or something like that. I'd bet 10 to 1 he's the DC next year.

 

*puke*

 

Another season of watching mediocre DB's backpedal 18 yards on 3rd and 10 because "there's nothing else we can do".

[pacopete4]

A guy I hope the Packers target would be OLB Melvin Ingram from the Chargers. Perry, Clay and Ingram could be a formable pass rush to help the secondary out.

[nodakfan17]

I waited a week to get my final thoughts out - I didn't want to be too influenced by raw emotion.

 

The Packers' defense has been broken since Week 2 of 2011 when Nick Collins suffered his career-ending injury. Despite spending 5 consecutive 1st Round picks on that side of the ball (with only HHCD to show for it), the defense hasn't improved. Is it TT? Is it DC? Is it injuries and bad luck? Probably a little of each in my estimation, but 6 years should be enough time for an organization to solve a problem. Aaron Rodgers has 3 playoff losses where his defense has given up 44 or more points; Tom Brady's defenses have NEVER allowed 44 points in his 267 career starts.

 

Nonetheless, this was the most exciting / least disappointing season since 2010. In a span of 6 weeks, we beat the Seahawks, all 3 division opponents, the Giants at Lambeau (finally), and the #1 seeded Dallas Cowboys. I sure had fun. Go Pack!

[LouisEly]

Bob McGinn with some fairly harsh words for TT:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/01/28/mcginn-ted-thompsons-formula-success-fizzles/97136720/

 

Some quotes from the article:

 

How could Thompson, after watching the defense get ripped apart by the Falcons, even look McCarthy, his coaches and his players in the eye?

 

“Hats off to the coaching staff,” one general manager said last week. “For keeping it together playing with that crap for the last seven or eight weeks.”

 

“We all make mistakes,” said one former GM. “Maybe you can’t get better. Maybe the guy you want you can’t get, but at least you’re trying. I always felt obligation to the head coach to try. But that’s their (the Packers’) philosophy, and it’s worked for them because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback.”

 

So the ball rests squarely in Thompson’s court. For Packers fans, it must be depressing to know it’s likely little or nothing will change in the way he puts the team together.

[GAME05]

Yeah, the "try it without a special quarterback" line sticks out to me. How does this team do without 12 and maybe an average-type guy like Alex Smith? 5-11? 6-10?

 

All in all, what is TT bringing to the table right now that another GM wouldn't?

 

Ron Wolf always defined a successful draft as one which brings you three starters. Safe to figure they wouldn't have to be immediate starters. So what about TT?

 

2016: Kenny Clark, Spriggs (jury's out), Fackrell (jury's out), Blake Martinez (is he starter quality or was just thrown there?)

2015: Randall, Rollins (maybe not starter material), Ty Montgomery, Jake Ryan (?), Hundley, Ripkowski

2014: Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley

2013: Lacy, Bakhtiari, Tretter, Hyde (kinda)

2012: Nick Perry, Hayward, Daniels

 

By Wolf's standards TT's drafting has been largely successful. Of course the counter-argument to that is if you rely almost entirely on the draft, you should need to do better than three.

[nate82]

Without Rodgers the Packers would be more like the Bengals or the Chargers. Basically they go from a good team to an average to below average team.

 

At best without Rodgers the Packers are a 10-6 team if everything goes their way. Talent wise without Rodgers the team is a 4-6 win team.

[FVBrewerFan]

Encouraging McCarthy press conference, essentially saying nothing changes. He's back, Capers is back, TT is back. Matthews will not move to inside. (Then, frankly, a BS line about how Clay moves all over already.) Very stubborn group at 1265 these days.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yeah, the "try it without a special quarterback" line sticks out to me. How does this team do without 12 and maybe an average-type guy like Alex Smith? 5-11? 6-10?

 

All in all, what is TT bringing to the table right now that another GM wouldn't?

 

Ron Wolf always defined a successful draft as one which brings you three starters. Safe to figure they wouldn't have to be immediate starters. So what about TT?

 

2016: Kenny Clark, Spriggs (jury's out), Fackrell (jury's out), Blake Martinez (is he starter quality or was just thrown there?)

2015: Randall, Rollins (maybe not starter material), Ty Montgomery, Jake Ryan (?), Hundley, Ripkowski

2014: Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley

2013: Lacy, Bakhtiari, Tretter, Hyde (kinda)

2012: Nick Perry, Hayward, Daniels

 

By Wolf's standards TT's drafting has been largely successful. Of course the counter-argument to that is if you rely almost entirely on the draft, you should need to do better than three.

 

 

Right. If you almost never sign free agents, you're going to HAVE to have 3 starters at LEAST out of every draft, whether they're worthy to start or not, because you have to have players on the field. Just having players play isn't indicative of success. The Cleveland Browns I'm sure have players that they drafted on the field. That's not a measure of success. They have to have players suit up and on the field. A measure of success would be how do the players that the team drafted stack up against their peers, wouldn't it?

 

"We have 4 starters from the draft 2 years ago! Success!"

 

But three out of the four suck! How is that a success???

[brewcrewdue80]

Encouraging McCarthy press conference, essentially saying nothing changes. He's back, Capers is back, TT is back. Matthews will not move to inside. (Then, frankly, a BS line about how Clay moves all over already.) Very stubborn group at 1265 these days.

 

Well then, crap, I've told some friends that if Capers returns, I'm not watching the Packers next season. I cannot stomach 30+pts a game consistently having to be overcome and be rescued by the heroics that is Aaron Rodgers QB'ing. At least the Bucks are growing more and more exciting.

[FVBrewerFan]

Encouraging McCarthy press conference, essentially saying nothing changes. He's back, Capers is back, TT is back. Matthews will not move to inside. (Then, frankly, a BS line about how Clay moves all over already.) Very stubborn group at 1265 these days.

 

Well then, crap, I've told some friends that if Capers returns, I'm not watching the Packers next season. I cannot stomach 30+pts a game consistently having to be overcome and be rescued by the heroics that is Aaron Rodgers QB'ing. At least the Bucks are growing more and more exciting.

 

Hate to even say it, but more bad news for you. Bucks have lost 8 of their last 9 ; )

[LouisEly]

Yeah, if you are building exclusively through the draft you have 24 spots to fill and given the relatively short careers and high injury rates you will need at least four starters from every draft if not five.

 

If I'm prioritizing the Packers free agents, this is the list:

 

1) Jared Cook - because field-stretching TEs are not that common, and he flourished with Rodgers

2) Nick Perry - because if you don't have good corners you better have a good pass rush

3) TJ Lang - because he is one of the best pass blocking guards in the league, even if guards are replaceable, and because the Packers have very little OL depth

4) Micah Hyde - because even if they are deep at safety, they need him in the slot

5) JC Tretter - because he can play anywhere along the line adequately, which saves a roster spot

6) Julius Peppers - see Nick Perry, but will he accept a one-year deal? Maybe it's better to see if he's on the street in late October.

7) Eddie Lacy - because when healthy he was really good, and when GB puts 3 WRs on the field and forces the other team into a nickel package you have DBs trying to tackle a 240 lb RB... but when is he healthy?

8) Jayrone Elliott (RFA) - because he's worth $1.6M tender, and if Peppers and Perry bolt they will need depth

9) Brett Goode - because he's good(e) but getting long in the tooth - can he still cover adequately on punts?

10) Christine Michael - because he's adequate for a backup but nothing special

11) Jordan Tripp (RFA) - (see Christine Michael)

12) Datone Jones - because he's not a good fit for the 3-4

13) Don Barclay - because he is replacement level

 

Exclusive-rights FAs:

Locks: Allison, Thomas, Schum

Good bets: Crockett, Ringo

[LouisEly]

Yeah, if you are building exclusively through the draft you have 24 spots to fill and given the relatively short careers and high injury rates you will need at least four starters from every draft if not five.

 

If I'm prioritizing the Packers free agents, this is the list:

 

1) Jared Cook - because field-stretching TEs are not that common, and he flourished with Rodgers

2) Nick Perry - because if you don't have good corners you better have a good pass rush

3) TJ Lang - because he is one of the best pass blocking guards in the league, even if guards are replaceable, and because the Packers have very little OL depth

4) Micah Hyde - because even if they are deep at safety, they need him in the slot

5) JC Tretter - because he can play anywhere along the line adequately, which saves a roster spot

6) Julius Peppers - see Nick Perry, but will he accept a one-year deal? Maybe it's better to see if he's on the street in late October when injuries start piling up

7) Eddie Lacy - because when healthy he was really good, and when GB puts 3 WRs on the field and forces the other team into a nickel package you have DBs trying to tackle a 240 lb RB... but when is he healthy?

8) Jayrone Elliott (RFA) - because he's worth $1.6M tender, and if Peppers and Perry bolt they will need depth

9) Brett Goode - because he's good(e) but getting long in the tooth - can he still cover adequately on punts?

10) Christine Michael - because he's adequate for a backup but nothing special

11) Jordan Tripp (RFA) - (see Christine Michael)

12) Datone Jones - because he's not a good fit for the 3-4

13) Don Barclay - because he is replacement level

 

Exclusive-rights FAs:

Locks: Allison, Thomas, Schum

Good bets: Crockett, Ringo

[superfly]

Yay. Nobody being held accountable again for another 45+ point allowed playoff defeat. Where are all the fraud "Proud Packer Shareholders" that wave their toilet paper er I mean stock certificates demanding change?

 

Ok, that might be a bit extreme, but I find it largely unacceptable that it is business as usual again at 1265 Lombardi Ave with nobody being questioned about anything. Vince would not have stood for his defenses giving up 45+ in playoff games. Yes, I know we were in the NFC Championship game again, and we are spoiled with success. What I watched the other day though was not excellence, it was something pathetic. And it has happened numerous times.

[brewcrewdue80]

Encouraging McCarthy press conference, essentially saying nothing changes. He's back, Capers is back, TT is back. Matthews will not move to inside. (Then, frankly, a BS line about how Clay moves all over already.) Very stubborn group at 1265 these days.

 

Well then, crap, I've told some friends that if Capers returns, I'm not watching the Packers next season. I cannot stomach 30+pts a game consistently having to be overcome and be rescued by the heroics that is Aaron Rodgers QB'ing. At least the Bucks are growing more and more exciting.

 

Hate to even say it, but more bad news for you. Bucks have lost 8 of their last 9 ; )

 

Well considering I'm talking of filling in my fandom away from Packers 2017/18, this year's team isn't so much a worry. Thon Maker is seeing his Minutes per game rise, and I think it'll be approaching 20mins or higher come next season. I really think he'll be a difference maker...no pun intended... and we're talking Middleton returning. You've got them 4 pairing with Delly and Brogdon. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see Delly traded with Brogdon's success and continued growth from Vaughn, though that's questionable to say at this moment.

 

Back to Packers talk...I don't believe in resigning Peppers, and in that regard keeping Matthews. The two combined on the year had 47tackles. 12.5 of them sacks. But it all depends on what Peppers asks, because he's on such a limited snap count. Certainly provides some stats you like, but at what cost for how many snaps. Matthews on the other hand, his pay jumps in 2017 and production so soft, with a continual exposed weakness on run designed plays. If you consider him an OLB while lining up on the line, a RB who runs right by him, would mean nothing but daylight for the next 5-7yards. Unless a MiLB escapes his blocker and is in good angle for tackle on short gain. I'd rather keep Peppers for longer down to distance to go on 2nd&3rd downs if we could make that decision to cut Matthews.

 

Looking at WalkerFootball top 100 FAs.

#2 is Eric Berry at Safety Yes to this pay the man because safety isn't as strong as it's talked about.

#7 is TJ Lang so there is agreement on him.

#8 is Melvin Ingram who it says combines Sacks with run stuffing ability...the opposite of what Clay Matthews brings. If not him....

#12 is Trumaine Johnson a cover cornerback. 2015 had 17PDs and 7Ints.

 

I'd let Tretter enjoy a FA signing elsewhere.

Lacy I'd move on from as well, because weight issues tend to re-emerge.

 

Cook is a no-brainer.

Hyde could be moved on from if you signed Eric Berry.

Perry and Jones I can agree on but it's not a long term idea.

 

There's so much money I think it's possible to find a big FA acquisition. 2 with removing Matthews.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not sure how much money it would take, but I would love to have Cook, Perry, Trumaine Johnson, and Berry.

 

Let Hyde walk unless he's cheap. Morgan Burnett can be traded or used in nickel/dime similar to Hyde's role. Will be on the field most of the time anyhow. Move Clay inside full time. Draft a pass rusher in 1st round, maybe even move up- deep year for that.

 

No chance of most of that happening, of course.

[Point Beer Is Best]

If I had to predict the future based on history, I would say the Packers will be most aggressive in trying to sign Cook and Nick Perry first. Secondary to those two will be J.C. Tretter based on youth and versatility, although his injuries place a black mark on the much-emphasized "availability" category. They told T.J. Lang last year during training camp that they would focus on signing younger players first, so I see him as a guy they will let "test the market" and he will likely bring an offer back to GB asking them to come close. They'll bring him back if the amount isn't out of line with what they want to pay.

 

The team seems to have an internal rule recently about only pursuing free agents who have been cut (rather than those who just had their contracts expire) since those "street" free agents do not negatively impact the draft pick compensation formula (Cook, Peppers, Guion were all cut prior to signing in GB). When they've bent that rule (Ryan Pickett & Charles Woodson in '06, and Brandon Chillar in '08)... well we all know the result in 2010 when those free agents enhanced the draft picks on defense. For the love of God, don't be afraid to dip your toes into all forms of free agency & player acquisition.

[superfly]

Looking at WalkerFootball top 100 FAs.

#2 is Eric Berry at Safety Yes to this pay the man because safety isn't as strong as it's talked about.

#7 is TJ Lang so there is agreement on him.

#8 is Melvin Ingram who it says combines Sacks with run stuffing ability...the opposite of what Clay Matthews brings. If not him....

#12 is Trumaine Johnson a cover cornerback. 2015 had 17PDs and 7Ints.

 

I'd let Tretter enjoy a FA signing elsewhere.

Lacy I'd move on from as well, because weight issues tend to re-emerge.

 

Cook is a no-brainer.

Hyde could be moved on from if you signed Eric Berry.

Perry and Jones I can agree on but it's not a long term idea.

 

There's so much money I think it's possible to find a big FA acquisition. 2 with removing Matthews.

 

Yes. Yes. Yes to all of it.

[GAME05]

The Packers have $44M in cap space upcoming if you include Sam Shields leaving ($8.2M freed). So it shouldn't be a huge problem to sign whatever team FAs there are.

 

I'd like to bring back Lacy for next year. He's a perfect candidate for a one-year prove-it contract, and that would make for really interesting substitutions and combinations with Montgomery.

 

Matthews is a $15M cap hit. I'd like him back to help with the lackluster pass rush, but I really wonder if his production and injury history really justifies the second biggest cap hit on the team.

 

I've seen Logan Ryan (CB, New England) bandied about as the best gettable FA. It'd be nice to get a veteran CB on the team and then focus a bit more on pass rush and linebackers in the draft.