2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[MKE81]

What Don Capers had this year was a joke. I am not sure how you evaluate Capers with what he had. Maybe you can maybe you can't I don't know. Ted Thompson on the other hand might need to step aside now. He just isn't getting it done in the draft and a new vision may be needed. Let's be honest without Rodgers this team goes from NFC Championship run to 6 wins or so. He just has not drafted well for awhile and that is suppose to be his strength.

 

Dom Capers may be the scapegoat since it can't really get much worse on the defensive side of the ball.

Agree on all points

[DHonks]

That late 90s team found talent from everywhere. Reggie, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson and Eugene Robinson were free agents. I think Gilbert Brown was found at Burger King. LeRoy Butler was a converted corner. Mike Prior was a solid veteran.

 

I'm not as huge a free agency advocate as others. NFL free agency is broken. Teams rarely allow studs to reach free agency. However, solid contributing backups or adequate starters can be found in such a manor. The challenge is to determine which players can help and which are "system players".

 

I keep mention nickel vs 3-4, because we have personnel foand the latter but primarily run the former. Maybe we need to adapt our personnel strategy OR get a defense with swagger where we play our scheme and keep our best 11 defender said on the field instead of playing the matchup game.

[danzig6767]

What Don Capers had this year was a joke. I am not sure how you evaluate Capers with what he had. Maybe you can maybe you can't I don't know. Ted Thompson on the other hand might need to step aside now. He just isn't getting it done in the draft and a new vision may be needed. Let's be honest without Rodgers this team goes from NFC Championship run to 6 wins or so. He just has not drafted well for awhile and that is suppose to be his strength.

 

Dom Capers may be the scapegoat since it can't really get much worse on the defensive side of the ball.

Thompson has been really good at drafting offensive players and crap for awhile now drafting defensive players.

 

This just might be the worst core of cornerbacks in the league

 

Inside linebacker has been a weakness since Thompson took over a decade ago

 

Defensive line lacks any playmakers besides Daniels.

 

With Clay aging and beat up from years of injuries, Peppers old, and Perry being inconsistent, when Capers only rushes four, rarely does that generate pressure. If he blitzes and it doesn't get home, that further exposes a terrible group of corners.

 

Ted has spent a lot of picks in the first four rounds of the draft on defense since the team won the Super Bowl, yet the defense is devoid of playmakers and is full of weak areas.

 

I'd let Capers go just for a change, but whoever replaced him would be inheriting a very talent deficient unit.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, you watch Capers will be the fall guy. Fine, I don't mind a change there. New voice, new way of doing things,etc. But I called for Defcon 5 a couple years ago. TT is a good GM. MM is a good HC. Maybe even a great HC.

 

But sometimes major changes need to be made to shake things up. I would bring in new GM, let him decide if he wants to keep MM.

 

Then start from scratch on defense. This is even a chance to go back to 4-3 full time. Problems are way deeper than CB. LB you have borderline NFL players. Edge guys too. Heck I don't even think safeties are all that good.

 

This is the same movie for years now. Even Rodgers said major changes are needed to get back to SB.

[Austin Tatious]

There is some high level talent on defense, when you look at Nick Perry, Mathews, Clinton-Dix. I don't think Hyde or Ryan are bad. But, really, all three levels of the defense need help. D-tackle, speed at linebacker and corner.

 

The offense is fine. A healthy Lacy would have helped. Montgomery was ok, but I'd find a solid backup in there too for Lacy.

 

I'm not going to be surprised at all if Ted gets a new title as an overseer and they let Eliot Wolf or Gutenkist become the day to day GM.

[brewcrewdue80]

Absolutely time to let Capers go, 5years ago and every year to now. Like said earlier, embarrassing big time postseason exits. There is never an adjustment. If it works first half it wont 2nd. If its not working 1st, it only worsens. His style must be predictable. The amount of times a cb drops a WR to pass to a safety always seems 12yards downfield, Safety 21yards downfield. QB hits 16yards wide open. Ive always hated a CB pulling off to play zone. The WR he stops covering, so often is the only Offensive player within 20yards. And he just stopped leaving him wide open. Countless, after countless times, Capers scheme of this cb to safety is exposed. Whether its the CB passing to soon or the safety not switching or moving to a different receiver. How many clueless exchanges have we witnessed...what went wrong? Looks. That was my guy, youre to stay on your guy looks.

Finally a DC blitzed us properly. I cant figure out why its not done. But stunt at the line on a delay lb spy blitz. What were there? 4 untouched blitzes.

 

Plain and simple, we must find an elite player in the secondary. Not since nick collins has that been. Haha is avg if that. How hes probowl is beyond me. Matthews as someone said, is time to be released. His injury filled body isnt worth the money. Did he even record 50tackles this year? Some way some how the Pack need a great FA signing. You know as White was, As Woodson was. Both leaders upon game 1 for the defense. I mean, who is the leader on this defense? Peppers? Ive never seen Matthews as it. Just a great individual player.

 

I cant remember the last season I thought GB had an OLine that was good run blocking. Frank Winters at center years? I get that you have Rodgers to pass protect, but its terrible hes doing it on his own.

[tmwiese55]

My guess is Capers retires this year as a way to shake things up on D. While this year's injuries certainly are a valid excuse, I'm basing it on that the D has been the problem for the last 5 years and we've just wasted 5 of Rodgers prime years because of it. Rodgers is surprisingly getting up there in age so need to try something else on D to make sure they get one more title in his career.

 

Also, for years now the offense has sputtered to start the year and then figured it out (2015 the exception where they never figured it out). How about Rodgers and some others actually practice and play a bit in preseason instead of working out the kinks in the first few games.

[homer]

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[fondybrewfan]

For as bad as the injuries were; the only player of significance missing yesterday on defense was Shields. To be that bad while really only missing one guy is pretty bad. No one could have predicted that Rollins and Randall would regress as much as they did. Peppers and Matthews under performed pretty badly. On paper going into this year I think the defense was shaping up pretty good but between injuries and just crappy play they really underperformed.

 

Maybe if we have made the FG and not had the fumble it would have been a better game; but even then you get the sense we would have only lost by 2 TD's instead of 3. The defense was just a siv. Ryan wasn't even making spectacular throws; guys were just wide open all the time.

 

For what seems like the 10th year in a row they will need to go very heavy on D in the draft. They could use Corners, pass rushers, actual good middle linebackers. On O they need some more O Line depth, a RB, and another TE. Really should look to resign Cook if they can.

[pacopete4]

If they don't resign Cook, I'll be at a loss for words.

 

On the defensive side, is there any free agents to be that would help plug holes? I know that's not TT's biggest thing but can be fun to think about.

[fondybrewfan]

I would like to think TT might change his strategy at talent acquisition since he is quite clearly coming to the end of his career here. Perhaps he'll venture into FA a bit knowing he only has probably 1 or 2 more shots to make it happen.

 

Way to early to project who might be available in FA to help since so many guys will get re-signed before FA starts. Thompson himself has a lot of decisions to make. One would think he would resign Lang, Cook, and Perry. Beyond that who knows.

[rwa12]

They need to solidify the CB position somehow. They're not going to be in draft position to get a true difference maker at the position, he's going to have to explore free agency. Shields is done or close to it, Randall has had his confidence destroyed, I'm not sure Rollins was ever good, and Gunther et al are special teams/backup players. I'm not saying you pay a ransom for a Darrelle Revis in his prime, but they need some experienced guys. Even a Terrence Newman type, who isn't fantastic, but steady, would be an upgrade. Can't keep throwing out random rookies and hoping for the best. As far as the DL, and the LB core...Matthews should be gone, Peppers is another year older. Ryan and Martinez were ok, but could use some new edge rush. I wouldn't invest too heavily in the DL, I think they're ok there. Offense, I would draft McCaffery in the first round, he is the type of player who would thrive in this offense. Re-sign Cook, regardless of how frustrating he is.

 

That being said. I expect we'll do nothing in free agency, let Cook walk, max out Clay, and then draft a number of unheralded and undersized offensive and defensive linemen, along with a punt returner in the fourth round.

[FVBrewerFan]

Really thin year in Free Agency, and that's before teams sign their own FAs. Maybe there's cap casualties later on that would be a good fit, we'll see. But not real encouraged by what's out there right now- especially at CB.

[fondybrewfan]

A couple mock drafts have Packers taking

 

Sidney Jones, CB out of Washington

Malik McDowell, DL/Rusher out of Michigan State

Christian McCaffrey, RB out of Stanford

 

Personally I think you can find decent running backs in the 3-5th rounds and would rather spend the top picks on Defense. Don't know anything about Sidney Jones. Remember McDowell a bit at Michigan State but I don't know that DL/ edge rusher is the biggest position of need right now.

 

FWIW Walter Footballs mock as Jones in 1st round, Jeremy Nichols (RB from Boise St) in 2nd, Hasson Reddick (DE/OLB out of Temple) in 3rd round, and Scott Quessenbury (G out of UCLA) in the 4th. I will say that mock sucks because I have never heard of any of the players.

[tmwiese55]

I'd want a starting CB in FA and a first round CB. Add them with the 3 competent safeties and then Randall/Rollins as your 6th and 7th men and you have what should be competent defensive backfield.

 

I don't think Mathews will be gone but have to think you could talk to him about restructuring his deal somehow to help the team. I bet Rodgers would as well, he knows he needs another SB to cement his legacy.

[FVBrewerFan]

Another thought. When was this defense the best the last couple years? When Clay played MLB. I would entertain the idea of going back to 4-3 full time. Put Clay in the middle. (And yes, his deal needs to be re-structured.) Then go get a pass rusher in FA to go along with Perry. I think that would be an improvement in the front 7.

 

In the backfield, yea get a FA if there's any out there. But as I said earlier it's really thin. They may need to trade up in the 1st to get one that is really good and ready to go. And they need to find TRUE CBs. Not guys who are versatile, converted safeties, etc. That's all fine and well once in a while, but they need guys who can play man.

[pacopete4]

Clay Matthews need to develop another move than run around the right tackle as fast as he can. The QB just takes a step up in the pocket and Clay is usually found out of the play at that point. It was pretty pathetic to watch yesterday. A guy who used to be somewhat elite, make very little impact if any at all.

[homer]

Apparently this is a really good draft for edge rushers. I would love to take a couple.

[CheezWizHed]

I'm going to disagree with the Capers vs. Talent argument. Yes, starting CB being Gunter is not what anyone wants to see. But we know that HHCD and Burnett are greatly talented players, Rollins and Randall showed a lot last year, and our MLB situation is far superior to last year too. Clark looks like someone to watch grow into a player also.

 

Yet, it seems that no one is ever surprised by what we are running. No blitz ever gets home. People are running through massive holes in our zones. And communication on the field is horrible (CB expecting S help and its not there).

 

Those are coaching errors, not player talent errors. Its like everyone knows what to expect and what defensive plays beat it. Having mediocre talent or execution just makes it a bon-fire at that point.

 

We need to clean house on the defensive coaching side.

[RobDeer 45]

What I'm worried about right now is Elliot Wolf leaving the Packers to be GM of another team. I have always believed he was being groomed to take over for Ted. I don't want the Packers to feel forced, that they need to make a decision, but I have to think TT is done soon. I'd hate to see Wolf leave a year or two before he TT steps down.

 

Edit: I just did a quick search on Wolf to see if anything new had come out, and it appears he signed a new contract. That's great to hear and I hope keeps him in GB until he gets a shot at GM.

[tmwiese55]

I'm going to disagree with the Capers vs. Talent argument. Yes, starting CB being Gunter is not what anyone wants to see. But we know that HHCD and Burnett are greatly talented players, Rollins and Randall showed a lot last year, and our MLB situation is far superior to last year too. Clark looks like someone to watch grow into a player also.

 

Yet, it seems that no one is ever surprised by what we are running. No blitz ever gets home. People are running through massive holes in our zones. And communication on the field is horrible (CB expecting S help and its not there).

 

Those are coaching errors, not player talent errors. Its like everyone knows what to expect and what defensive plays beat it. Having mediocre talent or execution just makes it a bon-fire at that point.

 

We need to clean house on the defensive coaching side.

 

Good post. I've said similar things today. The whole point of the 3-4 is supposed to be disguised blitzes and pass rushers. yet it seems we almost never do it and when we do it doesn't work. Pass rush for GB is basically reliant on Mathews or someone on the other edge beating their guy one on one, and obviously Mathews does that less and less now. Just think of UWs D as an example LBs are coming from god knows where on any play.

 

And regarding the zone, it's almost like when you teach middle schoolers zone D for the first time and they think they just have to stand in their spot in the zone. Not realizing they need to actually cover the person as they come into their zone. Several replays yesterday were just simple 10 yard crosses wide open. I know they were outmanned yesterday and that it probably wouldn't have worked anyway, but I'd rather bring pressure and play tighter coverage. you know, at least try, make them earn it and you can sleep at night know you at least tried. The way they did it yesterday was basically just playing scared and on your heels.

[MrTPlush]

I don't know if I mentioned it here, but it was a strong rumor Ted Thompson might be stepping down after the season into an advisory role so they can move along with Wolf or someone else.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't know if I mentioned it here, but it was a strong rumor Ted Thompson might be stepping down after the season into an advisory role so they can move along with Wolf or someone else.

 

I've seen those rumors, also rumors that he will stay as GM for one more year. If that's true, then just make a change now. No reason to have a lame duck GM sticking around.

[rwa12]

I read earlier in the week that the Packers' only hope of winning was playing that zone, and hoping to shut down Freeman. They didn't have the guys to cover Jones and crew, and basically had to play bend/don't break to have a chance. Unfortunately, they bent and broke. You can allow the 6-10 yard passes if you can shut down the big plays, they couldn't shut down either. I'm not a fan of Capers, but the losses prior to and in game limited anything he could do. Aside from that, Atlanta is really good, a horrible matchup, and executed well. We didn't take advantage of the mistakes. Had to have another game like against Dallas, and it just didn't happen.

[bjkrautk]

I've seen those rumors, also rumors that he will stay as GM for one more year. If that's true, then just make a change now. No reason to have a lame duck GM sticking around.

 

The "one more year" rumor for TT seems tied to Chiefs GM John Dorsey (formerly part of the Packers organization from 1991-2012, less one year in Seattle), who is under contract with KC through the 2018 draft.

 

Possibly more interesting than Wolf signing a contract extension with the Packers was the news last week that Brian Gutekunst (Director of College Scouting; interviewed for 49ers GM job like Wolf did) also signed a new contract.

 

Whenever TT steps aside, there will be no shortage of qualified candidates for the position...which leaves me optimistic the organization will be in good hands.

 

---

 

As to the televised atrocity that was yesterday's game...it's hard to get a pass rush when the ball is consistently coming out in 2-3 seconds, which is what Matt Ryan was willing and able to do to our defense. If you can't cover for that short span of time, no amount of pressure / disguised blitzing is going to be effective. (As the J-S news coverage pointed out, on one play the Packers dropped 9 men into coverage....and Atlanta still completed the pass.)

 

The difference between the Packers defense (27-for-38, 392 yards, 4 TDs) and Seattle the week before (26-for-37, 338 yards, 3 TD) is basically the long run-after-catch TD to Julio Jones.

 

Rollins and Randall's "regression" this year seemed largely the result of playing through injuries. Randall particularly, struggled with tackling since injuring his shoulder during the first half of the year, and has been playing through an injured groin.

 

Over the past 2 seasons, the Packers secondary lost Davon House (Jacksonville, 2015 FA), Casey Hayward (San Diego, 2016 FA), on top of the Shields injury.

 

http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/history/_/year/-1/round/-1/team/9

Since 2010, the Packers have only drafted 9 DBs (Burnett in 2010, House in 2011, Hayward and Jerron McMillan in 2012, Hyde in 2013, HaHa and Demetri Goodson in 2014, and Randall / Rollins in 2015). 4 safeties, 5 corners...give or take your classification of Micah Hyde, in 6 years....on a team known for acquiring extra draft picks, that rarely signs free agents.

 

That's how you end up with a 2nd year UDFA without top-end speed being asked to cover one of (if not the) best WR in the league....because given the injuries, he was the best option.