2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[pacopete4]

Randall is a perfect example of a player who has lost all confidence. He may end up being a solid player but right now he lacks any confidence. Hard to succeed out there reacting to every play rather than just seeing and going.

[rwa12]

Agreed. Didn't matter the receiver, he was 3 steps behind him. Witten broke free on him for goodness sakes, I wouldn't consider him elusive.

[FVBrewerFan]

There are/were worse defenses than the Packer in the playoffs this season.

 

Who? I can't think of any playoff team with a worse defense than the Packers, and most aren't even close.

[DuWayne Steurer]

During the Cowboys game, even McCarthy just seemed plain dumbfounded by the defensive play and playcalling. I realize that the personnel isn't up to snuff, but on a 3rd and 11 and you're playing 15 yards off the receivers, and Dallas easily completes a pass on the soft zone for a crucial first down, the camera caught McCarthy on the sideline with a "REALLY???" look on his face. At some point in a critical juncture of a season ending/elimination game, you have to ask your guys to (attempt) to make a play, don't you??

 

Even if you try and fail, at least TRY.

[pacopete4]

There are/were worse defenses than the Packer in the playoffs this season.

 

Who? I can't think of any playoff team with a worse defense than the Packers, and most aren't even close.

 

 

Points allowed:

Atlanta- 406

GG- 388

Okland- 385

Miami- 380

 

Yards Allowed Per Game:

Miami- 383

Oakland- 375

Atlanta- 371

KC- 368

GB- 363

 

Takeaways:

GB- 25

Mia- 25

NYG- 25

NE- 23

Pit- 23

ATL- 22

Dal- 20

Sea- 19

Hou- 17

Det- 14

 

None of these stats GB is the worst in.

[FVBrewerFan]

In the NFL, all stats are a small sample size. They are not worthless, but far from the whole story. For example, Falcons played Saints twice, while the Packers played the Bears/Vikings twice. They also include all stats from beginning to end, and this changes a lot throughout a season. Going into the playoffs, I would take Falcons defense over the Packers. That's the only one that's close. Just my opinion, granted.

[MrTPlush]

During the Cowboys game, even McCarthy just seemed plain dumbfounded by the defensive play and playcalling. I realize that the personnel isn't up to snuff, but on a 3rd and 11 and you're playing 15 yards off the receivers, and Dallas easily completes a pass on the soft zone for a crucial first down, the camera caught McCarthy on the sideline with a "REALLY???" look on his face. At some point in a critical juncture of a season ending/elimination game, you have to ask your guys to (attempt) to make a play, don't you??

 

Even if you try and fail, at least TRY.

 

The problem with that play is no one covered the flat. I don't know why such mistakes happen so often. The DBs seem to be on totally different pages on many plays. That pass wouldn't have gotten a first down if the DB was where he was suppose to be.

[pacopete4]

In the NFL, all stats are a small sample size. They are not worthless, but far from the whole story. For example, Falcons played Saints twice, while the Packers played the Bears/Vikings twice. They also include all stats from beginning to end, and this changes a lot throughout a season. Going into the playoffs, I would take Falcons defense over the Packers. That's the only one that's close. Just my opinion, granted.

 

 

That's the thing, at least the stats give us some comparison between the defenses. I was able to bring some evidence to the table to show you they may not be the worst in the playoffs. Playing the Saints twice is tough on a defense but its not like the Packers ONLY played the Vikes and Bears all season. Again opinions are great and and your definitely entitled to have one. Just hard to argue against three set of numbers showing they are not the worst in any category.

[DuWayne Steurer]

During the Cowboys game, even McCarthy just seemed plain dumbfounded by the defensive play and playcalling. I realize that the personnel isn't up to snuff, but on a 3rd and 11 and you're playing 15 yards off the receivers, and Dallas easily completes a pass on the soft zone for a crucial first down, the camera caught McCarthy on the sideline with a "REALLY???" look on his face. At some point in a critical juncture of a season ending/elimination game, you have to ask your guys to (attempt) to make a play, don't you??

 

Even if you try and fail, at least TRY.

 

The problem with that play is no one covered the flat. I don't know why such mistakes happen so often. The DBs seem to be on totally different pages on many plays. That pass wouldn't have gotten a first down if the DB was where he was suppose to be.

 

Well, that was happening almost every play in the 2nd half.

[brwrsfan]

During the Cowboys game, even McCarthy just seemed plain dumbfounded by the defensive play and playcalling. I realize that the personnel isn't up to snuff, but on a 3rd and 11 and you're playing 15 yards off the receivers, and Dallas easily completes a pass on the soft zone for a crucial first down, the camera caught McCarthy on the sideline with a "REALLY???" look on his face. At some point in a critical juncture of a season ending/elimination game, you have to ask your guys to (attempt) to make a play, don't you??

 

Even if you try and fail, at least TRY.

 

The problem with that play is no one covered the flat. I don't know why such mistakes happen so often. The DBs seem to be on totally different pages on many plays. That pass wouldn't have gotten a first down if the DB was where he was suppose to be.

 

Well, that was happening almost every play in the 2nd half.

 

And that's the problem. It seemed to me like we were playing deep zones the entire half - on purpose. Which is just bad all over the place. If that wasn't the case, then how do we have DB's out of position on almost EVERY play. Every time we're in zone, someone is wide open. I know we have young guys playing, but a lot of these young guys have been playing for a few games now and should at least know basic coverage schemes, and if they don't - that's bad coaching.

 

Prime example was the 3rd and 11 around the 16-18 yard line. We rushed 3 guys, so had 8 guys in coverage. Dallas sent out 4 guys into routes in one in the flat. So 8 to cover 5, and only about 25-30 yards of field to worry about. And yet, Witten runs a basic route and is WIDE OPEN at the first down marker. Aikman talked about the soft zone coverage we were in - WHY??? It's a huge play and the only thing behind you is the end zone - you aren't going to get burned deep. It made zero sense. And that happened over and over and over again it seemed.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, on the play you're referring to there are at least 3 defenders very close to Whitten, yet none of them is actually COVERING him. That's been the issue with the Packers zone forever. So I agree, to an extent, that is on Capers and the coaching staff. Even though in general I still think lack of personnel is the biggest issue on defense.

[pacopete4]

Wasn't there a zone play where Witten caught a ball in between Peppers and someone else (maybe Brice)? I remember Peppers turning into the middle covering absolutely no one while the pass was complete to his outside.

[MrTPlush]

I think part of the reason they play soft is so they don't get burned deep. If anyone wants to rewind to the losing streak we were burned deep way too much. I think playing prevent is better for the defense we have. It isn't great, but with Rodgers playing the way he has it wins games. They can't afford to get beat on huge pass plays for quick points. Just my opinion.

[FVBrewerFan]

Agree, but that doesn't explain why people are wide open in the red zone. No fear of anyone going deep, easy to cover that with a short field. Yet guys are still wide open, usually right across the middle.

[MKE81]

I guess my question is: Did Capers just get lucky in 2010? That defense was great.

 

They had a great, GREAT player at every level in 2010. Rod Woodson, Nick Collins, Clay Matthews (playing at his absolute peak. Cullen Jenkins playing havoc on the line. Is it fair to say Capers got "lucky"? I don't know, but there was pro-bowl talent at every level.

 

(Not directing this next bit at anyone in particular) The thing is, every year our defense struggles to cover the pass, cover the middle of the field, and stop teams from scoring (we've been pretty mediocre since 2010) and it seems that a very vocal part of the fan-base wants to say "Injuries!"

 

Look, this is the NFL. EVERY TEAM PLAYS THROUGH INJURIES. Find me a team that doesn't. It just doesn't happen. For the Packers, the problem is compounded badly when Thompson refuses to plug holes. How many games did we play this year without a true running back?

 

You can't just say "Injuries!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over in the NFL like it's an actual valid excuse for 6 years running. There have been times the Patriots used WR's for DB's. There were times that Tom Brady's top targets were Deion Branch and David Givens! (WHO????) You play on! That's the NFL. Next man up.

 

If someone is in the NFL, whether they're a First rounder, or a practice squad guy, we have to assume they have SOME kind of talent and ability to play, and be out on the field. No, some UDFA practice squad guy is probably not as good as the first rounder, but he's still probably here in the NFL for a reason, he's still more athletic and talented and physically gifted than 99.5% of all the people out there.

 

NE is playing without Gronk right now. I mean, look at ANY teams injury report, and you'll see no less than 8 - 10 guys or more. Do Packer fans really think the Packers are the only team to play through tough injuries? Atlanta has 11 guys on their injury report right now. NE has 9 guys. Packers have 12. The Steelers have 14!! I wonder if their fans use the injury excuse as much as ours do.

Saying every team plays through injuries is extremely simple minded. So if you like that approach then stick with it. Injury reports? Stop it. Brady is on it every week and he's never injured. Gronk is out? Yeah, so is Jordy. D. Branch WHO??? Yeah, I've heard of that SB MVP before!! WR shifting to CB is one of the easiest transitions you can make especially if they've played it at some point in their careers. The fact you're asking how the Pats win when Brady doesn't have WR names proves your football IQ, or lack therefore. Why did Cassel go 11-5 in Brady's absence? Why did Jimmy start the season 3-1 this year in Brady's absence? Outside of Moss why have the Patriots basically had small, quick twitch WRs the past 12yrs??? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FITS THEIR SCHEME. When Brady isn't throwing to Moss or Gronk he's throwing to this profile WR or his RB (white, lewis, etc) on short routes letting them do the work.

 

Name another playoff caliber team with the following injuries - Lacy missed 11wks. Starks missed 7wks. Name another team that had a WR as their #1 RB for half a season because their top 2 were injured? Cook missed 6wks. Cobb missed 3wks. Shields missed 15wks. Clay missed 4wks. Randall missed 6wks. Rollins missed 3-4wks. Ryan missed 2 games but was injured for 4 others and didn't even start. Blake missed 3wks and didn't start in 4 others even though he played because he was still injured. Fackrell missed 3wks. Elliott missed 5wks. Yeah, sounds like the typical season for everyone having a dozen starters (or contributors) miss a month each.

 

The first game of the losing streak was against ATL (lost 33-32) and Ripkowski was the leading rusher not named Rodgers. No Cook, Cobb, Ty, Shields, Randall, Rollins, Clay.

[MKE81]

I think part of the reason they play soft is so they don't get burned deep. If anyone wants to rewind to the losing streak we were burned deep way too much. I think playing prevent is better for the defense we have. It isn't great, but with Rodgers playing the way he has it wins games. They can't afford to get beat on huge pass plays for quick points. Just my opinion.

I agree with this. The most annoying part for me is the CBs aren't getting physical at the line. The defense was great 6-7yrs ago because our CBs were bump and run every play instead of playing 7yds off. The entire secondary right now is also very young, including our LB core with Ryan, Blake. Tackling has been an issue with this team for years as well. They never properly tackle anyone.

[tmwiese55]

The biggest issue with the injuries is that they decimated one specific unit, and in this era CBs are really freaking important. What team can basically be without their top 3 CBs for huge chunks of the year. If you'd have lost one there, one on the OL, one on the DL, etc. But they had a really important position wiped out where you're pulling guys off the street at playoff time.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Stop it

 

I'd respond to your football points but your continued inability to converse without being petty and insulting gets in the way of that. Check out the terms of service if you need a refresher.

[DHonks]

Talking with a high school defensive coordinator, he explained why the zones look so soft. As teams try to protect a lead, they tend to be willing to give up short passes rather than the bombs. While a team can score with short passes, it can chew up clock.

 

In fairness, if the Rodgers to Adams play connects instead of an INT, the game would have been pretty much out of reach. The Packers can do a better job of keeping the foot on the pedal....we've seen that plenty over the years (yuck Seattle!), but realistically it also means we're often ahead by a bunch.

[rwa12]

I thought the zone was fine. They didn't have the players to play man. Randall was a broken man, at least with a zone there was a safety to make the tackle after the catch. I don't think they can lock anyone down, they are just going to have to outscore, and hope they win the rushing battle.

[pacopete4]

With Randall playing last week it was like playing 10 on 11.

[pacopete4]

Flu bug hit the Steelers and Packers? Ish.

[jerichoholicninja]

Food for thought: defense wins championships?

 

Take a look at the 4 remaining teams - Falcons, Packers, Patriots, Steelers. No great defense among them but four darn good offenses. The best playoff defenses (Texans, Chiefs, Seahawks) all got steamrolled on their way out.

[MrTPlush]

Defense wins championships in most cases if your offense is acceptable. All three of those teams offenses were pathetic.

[homer]

You need some kind of defense to win a championship but I'd be willing to say there've only been like five or six SB winners where their defense won it for them with a sub par offense.