2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[brewcrewdue80]

This Packers defense is so bad... but somehow Rodgers and company just keep bailing them out. The fact that Capers keeps his job year after year is reaching mind boggling levels to me. It's unfortunate, because this team would legitimately have a great shot at multiple super bowls during Rodger's prime, but having this mediocre (and sometimes terrible) defense is handicapping them in a major way.

 

I don't think Capers is to blame for bad defensive backs and linebackers that can't cover. That's on Thompson.

 

Well, I believe the team drafts players to fit the scheme Capers wants. What I have to say, I can't figure out how Ha-ha is a Pro Bowler. So many of the deep passes over 20yards he's nowhere in the picture...for a safety? And that to me is part of Capers scheme. How often has his defenses been burned. Seem to always give up 300yards+ in any big game, like this one.

 

As to Matthews, he's slower, aged that's clear. That's why he's not coming up on the stats much anymore. So many times this season, he's 1step away on his pressure which he wouldn't been a season or more ago.

 

If GB hadn't jumped out to their lead, Dallas would have womped us. But by being ahead 2 or 3 scores, they ran less. I seriously mouthed every time their Offensive line was 3yards passed the line of scrimmage getting up on Dallas run plays. Packers' line, always at the line of scrimmage. 3 Tackles for loss-the 2 sacks, and Kenny Clark's run down on a screen play. Not 1 on a run play. They had 6 with 3 sacks.

 

Do gotta hand it to Brice and Gunter how far they've come since that 4game losing streak to now. I'm surprised they give Gunter so much time man to man coverage. Or maybe they don't and Dix misses his assignment. I just get baffled how many times passed 17yards and no one is further back to help, literally leaving the CBs on an island. I just don't understand the scheme Capers is playing.

 

Anyway, To Atlanta we go! Rodgers I think has his best rushing games when in Atlanta. I expect another 50+ day for him rushing with 5 or 6 heartbreaking 1st down runs crushing Atlanta's D.

[FVBrewerFan]

Nah, the scheme is easy to understand. They either play zone and guys are wide open, or they plan man and guys are wide open. They can rush 3 or 4, or they can blitz, and you got it...guys are wide open.

 

I'm neutral on Capers, so I have no dog in this fight. They just don't have any talent. Is that partly because Capers and his staff haven't developed it? Who knows. But Randall and Rollins have actually taken a step back this year. Clay belongs on the inside, if he likes it or not.

[brewcrewdue80]

I don't think Capers is to blame for bad defensive backs and linebackers that can't cover. That's on Thompson.

Agreed. This might be Capers best year considering what he has to use. Lack of talent and injuries have killed the depth all around. Packers need to go hard on the defensive side of the ball in the upcoming draft.

But also don't be fooled. The Cowboys have one of the best offensive lines I've seen.

 

It seems like we go hard on defense in almost EVERY draft. The last 5 first round picks were on defense (and 7 of the last 9). I could be wrong (and I'm too lazy to go back and add it all up), but it sure seems like if you look at the first 3-4 rounds of the draft, it's been way more defensive players than offensive. The problem is...a lot of them haven't developed into very good players. Or as others have said, Ted is drafting who he wants, regardless if they fit what Capers actually wants to do on defense

 

That Cowboys line made up of 3 1st rounders and a 4th with I'd guess an UDFA.

 

This is what I mean in post above, Capers' defense has to be being drafted for.

Since the SB top 3 picks by Pack:

2010: T Bulaga, DE Neal, DB Burnett

2011: Loser T Sherrod, WR Cobb, RB Green Not complaining on T picks here when you realize Rodgers' ability. I don't think Bulaga helped much for 4 years and only the last 2.5 has he started living up to the pick. 4th pick Davon House

2012: LB/DE Nick Perry, DT Worthy, CB Hayward, Mike Daniels 4th The start of Capers draft needs.

2013: LB/DE Datone Jones, RB Lacy, 4th round T Bakhtairy

2014: DB Ha-Ha, WR Adams, DT Khyri Thornton? Have no recollection of this guy.

2015: DB Randall, DB Rollins, WR Montgomery, Ryan 4th

2016: DT Clark, T Spriggs, LB/DE Fackrell...Martinez 4th.

7year total: 12 of 21 top 3 picks Defensive with 4 of last 6 4th pick defensive.

 

The 4th picks have been better than the 1st round picks. You can't sit there and say Capers needs players. They have obviously focused drafts to help his scheme. The Hybrid DE/LB types in Jones/Perry. DBs and DT.

 

Based on BJKraut's post on the makeup of the defense the team is better off drafting later on defensive backs. They've hit on every WR drafted in 1st 3 rounds though certainly Rodgers helps improve their talent.

Just some brutal names missed on the picks. Landon Collins vs Randall. Alec Ogletree or Travis Frederick vs Datone Jones. About half the picks to Worthy over Perry including Bobby Wagner. Dix is a win compared to much what was drafted after him. Clark is too early to declare, especially being so young but we did pass a lot of intriguing names off to solid starts this rookie season

[FVBrewerFan]

You can't sit there and say Capers needs players.

 

Why not? Your own research proved Thompson has drafted horribly on the defensive side of the ball- especially front 7. Neal, Worthy, Thornton, Jones, good luck. Go back a couple more years and it gets worse.

[GAME05]

Capers has mediocre LBs, a mediocre pass rush, and third-stringers getting starts at CB. I'm not sure what a different DC could have done better with that group.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, and not sure what they can do to make things better next season. If you have one true shutdown CB, it helps solve a lot of problems. (Even Shields wasn't one of those guys, but he was closer at least.)

 

Quick look at FA CBs, and not much there. (As if Thompson would sign a big time FA Corner anyhow.) Maybe you get lucky in the draft and find one, it happens. Then Peppers and Matthews could both be gone, so the scramble continues in the Front Seven. I just hope Brice finds a permanent role, at least he hits anything that moves- hard.

[MrTPlush]

I actually think the DBs have greatly improved over this win steak. Coverage has gotten a lot better. How many times do we see wide open receivers because players aren't even playing the right zone. They have no chance to cover guys because no one is doing the right thing.

 

So the DBs are greatly improved, other than not being able to cover anyone?

 

That tells you how bad they were before.

[MrTPlush]

Everyone on here acting like they know for sure Thompson won't sign a notable free agent. Didn't he once sign Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers? If I remember right Julius Peppers was signed because we desperately needed a pass rusher. So I think this offseason could fit the bill if the right player becomes available.

[pacopete4]

Everyone on here acting like they know for sure Thompson won't sign a notable free agent. Didn't he once sign Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers? If I remember right Julius Peppers was signed because we desperately needed a pass rusher. So I think this offseason could fit the bill if the right player becomes available.

 

Toss in Cook, although on the offensive side of the ball, he's another great example of using free agency to better the team.

[MrTPlush]

I'm not sure how anyone could blame Capers at this point. They hit on the subject pretty well why the Packers are having issues on defense. It's hard to stop the run when the DBs need extra help and if you try to help against the run then you are practically forcing yourself to let Dez Bryant have 1 on 1. Sure you could then blame Thompson for not having good enough players on the team, but the injuries have been beyond brutal this year and have yet to let up. We have inexperienced players being thruster into starting minutes when they just don't have the experience to not screw up.

[nodakfan17]

If I'm a NFL head coach, I defer to the second half every time I win the coin toss (no matter the circumstances).

 

Electing to receive is like committing 1/2 a turnover because there's a 50% chance that the opponent will end the half with the ball and subsequently receive the second half kickoff. I understand the argument that a quick score could force a run-oriented offense to favor the pass, but with NFL rules now favoring offense, the extra possession has increased in value. This was the subject on a local sports radio show and I was surprised by the number of callers who claimed they wanted the Packers to receive the opening kickoff so that they could score and then force Dak Prescott to pass. Guess what? Dak Prescott is a pretty good passer. That extra possession turned out to be of greater significance, no?

[brewcrewdue80]

You can't sit there and say Capers needs players.

 

Why not? Your own research proved Thompson has drafted horribly on the defensive side of the ball- especially front 7. Neal, Worthy, Thornton, Jones, good luck. Go back a couple more years and it gets worse.

 

 

Spending all these top draft choices and producing bottom 10 defensively year in, year out. Regardless who is drafted for Capers his defenses get destroyed year in year out. The Patriots have been solid on both sides of the ball while losing draft picks, finishing top 2 in AFC year in, year out.

so whats the answer to why? How about Capers, not the players/talent on the field.

[pacopete4]

Spending all these top draft choices and producing bottom 10 defensively year in, year out. Regardless who is drafted for Capers his defenses get destroyed year in year out. The Patriots have been solid on both sides of the ball while losing draft picks, finishing top 2 in AFC year in, year out.

so whats the answer to why? How about Capers, not the players/talent on the field.

 

On January 19, 2009, Capers was named the Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator by head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson, where he replaced the 4-3 defense Green Bay has used since 1992 with the 3-4 he used in Miami.[3] Green Bay's defensive ranking in his first year improved to second in the league in 2009, from 21st in the league in 2008.[4]

 

On September 12, 2010, Capers' defense finished the season ranked 2nd in scoring defense, 5th in total defense, 2nd in interceptions, 2nd in sacks, and 1st in opposing quarterback passer rating, in spite of being decimated by injuries during the 2010 season.[5]

 

On February 6, 2011, Capers lead a 5th ranked defensive squad and helped the Packers win the Super Bowl. During the playoff run his team had a pick 6 in the final 3 playoff games that year; Divisional Round (Williams), Championship game (Raji), and in Super Bowl 45 (Collins.)

 

On September 8, 2011, Capers began the year where he would watch his defense finish in the bottom of the barrel after finishing 5th the prior year. Since 2011 his defensive rankings on yards per game have been ranked: 2011 – 32nd-ranked defense, 2012 – 11th, 2013 – 25th, 2014 – 15th, 2015 – 15th and now 2016 – currently ranked 18th after giving up 4 straight games of 30 or more points.

 

His points per game rankings are 2009 – 7th, 2010 – 2nd, 2011 – 19th, 2012 – 11, 2013 – 24th, 2014 – 13th, 2015 – 12th and 2016 – 19th.

[nodakfan17]

On the defensive woes (too many posts to quote at this point) - The defense has been broken since Week 2 of 2011 when Nick Collins was injured. It continues to be this team's weakest link today. Is it coaching? Is it drafting? Is it untimely injuries and bad luck? All, probably. However, there's no point in getting down on this team now when they have rewarded our patience with a very memorable 8-game winning streak. Go Pack!

[homer]

[

 

That last part is what gets me. I think everyone agrees there is a problem - the defense right now just isn't good. We can't generate pressure (either through the front 3/4 or from blitzing), but regardless of how many guys we send, on most plays, there's someone running wide open somewhere in the field. And unless we get turnovers, we don't get many stops. Regardless of who is at fault - the fact that Capers doesn't really seem to adjust his defense in any way to maximize whatever talents they have is baffling. So the roster sucks, fine, but try something different, try to make it work. To just back in soft coverages because we're afraid of being burned deep just simply isn't working.

 

I mean, they've won 9 in a row and just beat the 1 seed so it is sort of working. I'm guessing if they didn't have an offense generating the points they are currently generating they might do something different.

[homer]

I guess my question is: Did Capers just get lucky in 2010? That defense was great.

[DHonks]

Thinking more about my previous comments about us no longer running a 3-4.....Clay really is now playing as an undersized defensive end. Nickel, with him on the line, has led to this situation where it's hard to beat 330 lb tackles.

[LouisEly]

I never understood the Datone Jones pick; even though every mock draft except mine had him going to the Packers, I never thought he was a good fit for a 3-4 defense - not big enough for a 5-technique, too big for OLB. Peppers is the rare big guy who is athletic enough to play OLB, but for all intents and purposes the Packers run a 3-3-5 as Peppers is more of a lineman.

 

Randall was a safety in college, Rollins had only one year of college football experience after playing college basketball - they went for upside and we knew those guys would take a while to develop. Randall has been hurt this year and, like Adams last year, leg injuries do not help CBs or WRs in any way shape or form. I don't know how much that is impacting his performance, but I was pretty vocal about the Randall pick and passing up Eric Kendricks - the best cover LB in that draft - and letting him get to the Viqueens, as well as passing on Malcom Brown who was the 6th leading tackler for the Patriots this year.

 

Fortunately this year is really deep at the top for CB. Marlon Humphrey, Teez Tabor, Quincy Wilson, Marshon Lattimore, Adoree Jackson, Cordrea Tankersley, Sidney Jones, Howard Wilson, Tre'Davious White, Gaeron Conley, maybe Desmond King and Jourdan Lewis all could be top-50 picks. One of them will be available when the Pack picks at the end of the 1st round.

 

My guess - Sidney Jones, if he's available Adoree Jackson.

[MKE81]

The Packers defense has generally been middle of the road to very good with 1-2yrs of garbage. There were a massive amount of injuries on that side of the ball in the first half and during that awful 4 game losing stretch. My issue with capers is the lack of blitzing. We rarely have more than 4 guys rushing and that won't cut it when half of them are DTs. Capers blitzing percentage is surprising but it's because he runs a 3-4 and sends a 4th rusher so it counts as a blitz. But 4 doesn't accomplish much unless you're elite up front, which we aren't. I'd get rid of Burnett and have Randall/HaHa at safety. Need to find 2 quality starting CBs as I assume Shields is basically done. Hyde, Gunter, Rollins would be strong filling out the unit (Rollins can hybrid between both CB and safety).

 

One final comment, it's disgusting watching our defensive unit tackle. For some reason they believe humans run with their torso instead of their legs. We almost never tackle the lower body. This would have prevented Dak from his rushing TD. It would prevent a lot of extra yards they give up because they allow the runner to continue to drive their legs. It's terrible coaching and I can't believe professionals get away with it and think it's acceptable

[FVBrewerFan]

I guess my question is: Did Capers just get lucky in 2010? That defense was great.

 

They had 4 "Top of Rotation" guys. Woodson, Collins, Matthews, and Raji. Plus several other Mid Rotation" guys Luke Tram on Williams, Bishop, Pickett. This year, as an example, they have zero TOR defensive players. Scheme all you want, but you need a few studs.

 

Also, having a bad defense may be helping them in a strange way. I think it's caused a sense of urgency in the offense. That follows through to play calling, Rodgers focus to think you need to score every drive. Just having that comfort level of "we have outscore them and that's ok."

[DuWayne Steurer]

I guess my question is: Did Capers just get lucky in 2010? That defense was great.

 

They had a great, GREAT player at every level in 2010. Rod Woodson, Nick Collins, Clay Matthews (playing at his absolute peak. Cullen Jenkins playing havoc on the line. Is it fair to say Capers got "lucky"? I don't know, but there was pro-bowl talent at every level.

 

(Not directing this next bit at anyone in particular) The thing is, every year our defense struggles to cover the pass, cover the middle of the field, and stop teams from scoring (we've been pretty mediocre since 2010) and it seems that a very vocal part of the fan-base wants to say "Injuries!"

 

Look, this is the NFL. EVERY TEAM PLAYS THROUGH INJURIES. Find me a team that doesn't. It just doesn't happen. For the Packers, the problem is compounded badly when Thompson refuses to plug holes. How many games did we play this year without a true running back?

 

You can't just say "Injuries!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over in the NFL like it's an actual valid excuse for 6 years running. There have been times the Patriots used WR's for DB's. There were times that Tom Brady's top targets were Deion Branch and David Givens! (WHO????) You play on! That's the NFL. Next man up.

 

If someone is in the NFL, whether they're a First rounder, or a practice squad guy, we have to assume they have SOME kind of talent and ability to play, and be out on the field. No, some UDFA practice squad guy is probably not as good as the first rounder, but he's still probably here in the NFL for a reason, he's still more athletic and talented and physically gifted than 99.5% of all the people out there.

 

NE is playing without Gronk right now. I mean, look at ANY teams injury report, and you'll see no less than 8 - 10 guys or more. Do Packer fans really think the Packers are the only team to play through tough injuries? Atlanta has 11 guys on their injury report right now. NE has 9 guys. Packers have 12. The Steelers have 14!! I wonder if their fans use the injury excuse as much as ours do.

[pacopete4]

I guess my question is: Did Capers just get lucky in 2010? That defense was great.

 

They had a great, GREAT player at every level in 2010. Rod Woodson, Nick Collins, Clay Matthews (playing at his absolute peak. Cullen Jenkins playing havoc on the line. Is it fair to say Capers got "lucky"? I don't know, but there was pro-bowl talent at every level.

 

(Not directing this next bit at anyone in particular) The thing is, every year our defense struggles to cover the pass, cover the middle of the field, and stop teams from scoring (we've been pretty mediocre since 2010) and it seems that a very vocal part of the fan-base wants to say "Injuries!"

 

Look, this is the NFL. EVERY TEAM PLAYS THROUGH INJURIES. Find me a team that doesn't. It just doesn't happen. For the Packers, the problem is compounded badly when Thompson refuses to plug holes. How many games did we play this year without a true running back?

 

You can't just say "Injuries!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over in the NFL like it's an actual valid excuse for 6 years running. There have been times the Patriots used WR's for DB's. There were times that Tom Brady's top targets were Deion Branch and David Givens! (WHO????) You play on! That's the NFL. Next man up.

 

If someone is in the NFL, whether they're a First rounder, or a practice squad guy, we have to assume they have SOME kind of talent and ability to play, and be out on the field. No, some UDFA practice squad guy is probably not as good as the first rounder, but he's still probably here in the NFL for a reason, he's still more athletic and talented and physically gifted than 99.5% of all the people out there.

 

NE is playing without Gronk right now. I mean, look at ANY teams injury report, and you'll see no less than 8 - 10 guys or more. Do Packer fans really think the Packers are the only team to play through tough injuries? Atlanta has 11 guys on their injury report right now. NE has 9 guys. Packers have 12. The Steelers have 14!! I wonder if their fans use the injury excuse as much as ours do.

 

They're playing to go to the Super Bowl. Who's using it as an excuse? People are just discussing why Capers is either doing a good or bad job.

[brewcrewdue80]

Spending all these top draft choices and producing bottom 10 defensively year in, year out. Regardless who is drafted for Capers his defenses get destroyed year in year out. The Patriots have been solid on both sides of the ball while losing draft picks, finishing top 2 in AFC year in, year out.

so whats the answer to why? How about Capers, not the players/talent on the field.

 

On January 19, 2009, Capers was named the Green Bay Packers defensive[3] Green Bay's defensive ranking in his first year improved to second in the league in 2009, from 21st in the league in 2008.

And gave up 537 yards to Pitt wk 15. 531 to Arz in Playoffs

 

On September 12, 2010, Capers' defense finished the season ranked 2nd in scoring defense, 5th in total defense, 2nd in interceptions, 2nd in sacks

On February 6, 2011, Capers lead a 5th ranked defensive squad and helped the Packers win the Super Bowl. During the playoff run his team had a pick 6 in the final 3 playoff games that year; Divisional Round (Williams), Championship game (Raji), and in Super Bowl 45 (Collins.)

Super Bowl team

 

On September 8, 2011, Capers began the year where he would watch his defense finish in the bottom of the barrel after finishing 5th the prior year. Since 2011 his defensive rankings on yards per game have been ranked: 2011 – 32nd-ranked defense, 2012 – 11th, 2013 – 25th, 2014 – 15th, 2015 – 15th and now 2016 – currently ranked 18th after giving up 4 straight games of 30 or more points.

2011-worst

2012-4 games over 400yards allowed including 579! to Colin Kapernick and SF in oust of Playoffs 7 games of 375+ allowed. Joe Philbin was announced Miami HC Prior to that season

2013- I dunno how not worst to rank 25th. 7games over 400yds

2014- 4 games over 400yds. Playoff game 397. 3 total games below 300yards 1 of them 299.

2015- 4 games again over 400yds-2 500 or more. 4 of last 5 games over 350yards 368 in Playoff loss.

2016- Incredibly 8! games over 400yards 5more at 350+.

 

Put it this way. Name a big game the defense came up huge. Not giving up over 275 yards in that game. I am looking and the Super Bowl team had week 17 vs Chi. 2nd round playoff game vs Atl surprisingly but see there was 4 TO by them 2int, 2 fumbles. That team had Woodson, Harris, Collins, Matthews, Hawk and Burnett. Quite the nice inherit. After 2010, no Harris, Barnett, and lost Collins game 2. Defense never the same

[pacopete4]

2011-worst

2012-4 games over 400yards allowed including 579! to Colin Kapernick and SF in oust of Playoffs 7 games of 375+ allowed. Joe Philbin was announced Miami HC Prior to that season

2013- I dunno how not worst to rank 25th. 7games over 400yds

2014- 4 games over 400yds. Playoff game 397. 3 total games below 300yards 1 of them 299.

2015- 4 games again over 400yds-2 500 or more. 4 of last 5 games over 350yards 368 in Playoff loss.

2016- Incredibly 8! games over 400yards 5more at 350+.

 

Put it this way. Name a big game the defense came up huge. Not giving up over 275 yards in that game. I am looking and the Super Bowl team had week 17 vs Chi. 2nd round playoff game vs Atl surprisingly but see there was 4 TO by them 2int, 2 fumbles. That team had Woodson, Harris, Collins, Matthews, Hawk and Burnett. Quite the nice inherit. After 2010, no Harris, Barnett, and lost Collins game 2. Defense never the same

 

Yards allowed is great but it really isn't the end all stat for a defense. There are/were worse defenses than the Packer in the playoffs this season. While it's not good, it's not that bad either. And it goes back to the point that Capers has done a decent with very little this season. Is some of that on him for not coaching up players? Sure but I'd say coaching up several UDFA and competing to go to the Super Bowl while using these players is a feather in the cap to him. We have a couple pretty good defensive players but the cupboard is pretty bare.

[rwa12]

I think our defense has always been a bend don't break style. The Packers rely on turnovers, if they get them, they look fantastic, if not, they're well below average. The knock I have on TT this year was believing that Sam Shields would make it through the season. Once these guys start piling concussions, they're done. Regardless of skill, they're going to have issues. I can live with the RB situation, Montgomery has been serviceable, and he went and got Michael. That was about as good as he could do at the time. No one is giving up an RB1 mid season. He addressed the secondary through the draft and undrafted FA, but they just aren't very good. Randall was the worst player on the field Sunday, he looked thoroughly defeated. I thought Brice was better, and he was a practice squad guy until the end of the season. If he's going to jump in the FA market, I hope it's for secondary help. Micah Hyde has been playing out of his mind, and is probably a big reason they are still in it. Injuries happen, but some like Shields, should be anticipated.