2016-2017 Green Bay Packers Thread

[superfly]

Christine Michael needs MOAR carries. Think we may have found our future RB, buhbye fat Eddie. The whole Ty Mont as a RB is cute and all, and it does have it's place, but when it's time to pound the rock Michael needs to be getting the ball and not Ty.

 

May/should be moot anyway with Jordy hurt though, we'll need him out at WR more.

[FVBrewerFan]

I like spreading it around. Rip can pound the ball too, just played hurt today. Also. Montgomery is a lot tougher runner than he's given credit for. I think you just go with the hot hand vs Dallas. Michael is not very patient. Each back has plusses and minuses.

 

Just nice having options there, when there weren't any a few weeks ago.

[brewcrewdue80]

It took the 6th possession before McCarthy called a 3step pass, Adams big gain down the sidelines. I find it crazy how little those quick pass plays are called. 1 that presents an up-tempo for the ensuing hurryup offense. 2 You have a GOAT at QB who can thread the ball in spaces very few ever could. Like that 1st completion to Cook in game.

But no, the next two plays, long developing pass plays which being a GOAT led to a TD. There was that earlier play call, after the PI set Pack at 30yd. Genius play design. But calling it 1st and 10 at Giants 30 is about as bad as the reverse order of calls that should have been when stuffed on 4th/inches. Of couse the line is stacked as your likely 3yards from true in-game FG range. And he calls the genius long developing short pass play easily blew up with any defense play called at that exact situation. Followed next by a coverage sack and sadly another season ender for Nelson on 3rd 21.

Its bad how McCarthy chooses these plays and especially bad how long he takes to playcall to the Offense's strength. Rodgers escapes so many would be sacks and it's like McCarthy just expects the 9 step dropbacks to work out because Rodgers finds a way for him.

[MrTPlush]

Christine Michael seems like a solid complementary back, but as a feature back? I guess maybe for us, but I don't think he is all that great. He has done well with our offensive line so far hopefully it continues. I love the energy he brings. He is energized to the max every play no matter what. I don't know if anyone else caught it, but on the big punt return he made a huge block and was hyped up about that even.

 

Packers probably want to give him more carries too, but he just doesn't have the playbook down yet. They can't afford for him to botch a play. Those turn into big loses and even fumbles.

[RobDeer 45]

Brewcrewdue - I don't think many of those pass plays are meant to be so long developing, that's just Rodgers holding the ball. I agree there haven't been as many quick hitting plays maybe, but I don't think he's calling plays that take half a minute to develop. I also think NY had some pretty good coverage on our guys, that's why there were a lot of messy plays.

 

I do think we need Michael when we need to pound the ball. I hated that we had Ty on on the 4th and 1. He's really not that type of runner. I don't trust Michael yet, but he will be the key for us holding leads in the playoffs I think (if we are fortunate enough to have them).

[rwa12]

Michael is a straight ahead runner, when he tries to cut, he looks like he is running in socks. He had a good game. Dallas and Seattle thought they had the answer in him as well, he's not. He's a good second back. I agree that he should have had the ball on 4th, given his success on the drive. My only thinking is that if 88 is in the backfield, you have to at least consider a pass play. If 32 is back there, the play is a given. Not that it mattered, was a bad call for a 4th and inches. Otherwise, really fun game to watch!

[pacopete4]

Jordy is most likely done for the post season. It will be interesting to see if other step up in his absence or if this will now become the excuse of a flutter out of the post season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Jordy is most likely done for the post season. It will be interesting to see if other step up in his absence or if this will now become the excuse of a flutter out of the post season.

 

Shouldn't be an excuse, as they put up almost all their passing yards AFTER Jordy was injured. One game, but it shows they can move the ball and score without him. Key is, hopefully no more injuries to the WR/TE position. Because you lose Cobb and/or Cook again for example, that is tough.

[MrTPlush]

Michael is a straight ahead runner, when he tries to cut, he looks like he is running in socks. He had a good game. Dallas and Seattle thought they had the answer in him as well, he's not. He's a good second back. I agree that he should have had the ball on 4th, given his success on the drive. My only thinking is that if 88 is in the backfield, you have to at least consider a pass play. If 32 is back there, the play is a given. Not that it mattered, was a bad call for a 4th and inches. Otherwise, really fun game to watch!

 

Except it didn't matter who was running because they knew exactly what was coming. Montgomery is probably a better power back and when you call a predictable run you are banking on the power of the OL/RB to get you past the marker.

[rwa12]

Neither were ideal, I'd probably give the ball to Rip if I had a choice in that scenario.

[FVBrewerFan]

Really quick snap and QB sneak. Teams are so used to Rodgers getting up to the line, going through audibles, trying to draw you offsides with hard count, etc. I still think it was a horrible decision to go for it on your own side of the field.

[tmwiese55]

I hate piling all your guys at the line and then slamming into the pile. Spread out and you get the 1 yard so much easier, see that lived out over and over throughout the NFL and CFB at the goalline. I laughed recently as the announcer was ripping the coach (because they came out in spread shotgun) for passing on the 3rd or 4th and short, only to handoff out of it and gash it for like a 30 yd TD. The problem in that situation was you basically ran the same pile up running play on 3rd down. A creative play on 3rd and you never would have needed to go for it on 4th. I also hate how GB for years has insisted on giving one carry in any short yardage situation to their token white FB to appease their fans. Rip has run well this year at least. For years we watched Kuhn only convert like 1/5 times and then get praised and given pro bowls for his TD count.

[DHonks]

I also hate how GB for years has insisted on giving one carry in any short yardage situation to their token white FB to appease their fans. Rip has run well this year at least. For years we watched Kuhn only convert like 1/5 times and then get praised and given pro bowls for his TD count.

 

 

There's quite a bit of ignorance in 2 of those 3 sentences.

[tmwiese55]

I also hate how GB for years has insisted on giving one carry in any short yardage situation to their token white FB to appease their fans. Rip has run well this year at least. For years we watched Kuhn only convert like 1/5 times and then get praised and given pro bowls for his TD count.

 

 

There's quite a bit of ignorance in 2 of those 3 sentences.

 

That I ignored to point out that it's a bit racist as to why they do it?

 

To real football talk though, Rip has run well out of the shotgun and normal run plays. I'd be curious how he's done on the FB dive crap in short yardage that I'm talking about, I bet it's not good. Also, go back to the Seattle championship game, I'd like to know how it shook out differently if we wouldn't have wasted a carry on each goal line possessions on Kuhn FB dives so that we ended up with FGs instead of TDs.

[homer]

Is there a place that records negative runs? I feel like Rip almost always gets positive yardage.

[tmwiese55]

Is there a place that records negative runs? I feel like Rip almost always gets positive yardage.

 

Yea I definitely see that Rip is way better than Kuhn. Kuhn had fallen off drastically his last few years in all aspects.

 

The real point was about how bad the piled up belly dive runs are, by the FB and RB. Doubt it would be easy for dudes on the internet to find things broken down that much. I bet we could find what they do on 3/4th and 2 or less but it won't differentiate when it's a shotgun run, or 3-4 wide, or whether there was 22 people piled up on top of the ball. I think it's worse for us but I bet the stats are bad for everyone. I actually remember after the Seattle interception in the SB that they got the stats out that Lynch actually was poor in those situations (definitely could be remembering wrong though).

 

I do think there is a negative run stat out there somewhere though that you could easily find.

[brewcrewdue80]

Is there a place that records negative runs? I feel like Rip almost always gets positive yardage.

 

Well I'm sure it does as there was Reggie Bush who I believe needed 7 yards in final game in order to not have Negative yards rushing across I dunno how many attempts. I'm guessing 50 or 75 attempts minimum.

 

Well just looked at his stats 12 rushes -3 yards. Maybe it's on being over 5,000 career yards? to have a season in negative rushing.

[DHonks]

One thing I started pondering last year...why don't teams blitz on likely hail mary plays? It seems like teams generally send 3 or 4 to maximize DB's in the chaos. But why let the QB have 4+ seconds to throw the ball? I'm sure they're afraid to have too few guys back, but I prefer coaching to win rather than coaching not to lose

[tmwiese55]

Clemson gets first and goal from the 1. Spread out the field and walked in the endzone on the first play. (ETA: this was referenceing their earlier TD possession, not the gamewinner)

 

For the hail mary, I've thought the same thing. My guess is their logic is that as long as it's 5 or less guys if the QB is immediately getting out of the pocket he'll likely find space and get away long enough. Rushing 4 is probably a good middle ground.

[sveumrules]

Is there a place that records negative runs? I feel like Rip almost always gets positive yardage.

 

Not sure if it's available anywhere in leaderboard form but Football Reference has play logs on the player pages & it looks like one of Rip's thirty four rushes went for negative yards this year. He also had four no gainers.

 

For comparison Montgomery was 11 of 77 no gain or negative yards, Lacy was 13 of 71, Starks was 19 of 63 (ouch) & Michael was 7 of 31.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I just didn't like going for it there with an 8 point lead and being at that position on the field. You JUST failed to move the ball on a one yard plunge up the middle, so you tried it again?

 

I think (like a lot of people) a rollout with an option to the flat would have been a good idea there, but even so, I just don't like going for it there..... punt and give your defense a chance to play.

[FVBrewerFan]

One thing I started pondering last year...why don't teams blitz on likely hail mary plays? It seems like teams generally send 3 or 4 to maximize DB's in the chaos. But why let the QB have 4+ seconds to throw the ball? I'm sure they're afraid to have too few guys back, but I prefer coaching to win rather than coaching not to lose

 

Yea, I would rush 6. DBs are not covering the whole field, or even the receivers. They should get to the end zone and find the ball. And having 5 guys do that should be plenty.

 

With that said, there was what 6 seconds left? Giants had to guard against a possible real quick out pattern to get into FG range.

[jerichoholicninja]

One thing I started pondering last year...why don't teams blitz on likely hail mary plays? It seems like teams generally send 3 or 4 to maximize DB's in the chaos. But why let the QB have 4+ seconds to throw the ball? I'm sure they're afraid to have too few guys back, but I prefer coaching to win rather than coaching not to lose

 

Yea, I would rush 6. DBs are not covering the whole field, or even the receivers. They should get to the end zone and find the ball. And having 5 guys do that should be plenty.

 

With that said, there was what 6 seconds left? Giants had to guard against a possible real quick out pattern to get into FG range.

 

A successful hail mary is 99% luck, maybe more. Janis catch last year he was like triple covered, if Aaron throws that ball 1 yard further or shorter on Sunday it's either out of bounds or tipped, I don't think there is a perfect way to defend it. I guess I would rush two DB's from way wide since they're faster than any lineman and should at least make the QB run and drop everyone else in coverage. The offense can only send 5 guys to catch the ball, I'd take my chances in a 9 on 5 situation or even 11 on 5. Why even bother going after the QB since you're going to be severely out manned anyway.

[MrTPlush]

Yup I don't like going for it on 4th no matter what. That was a crappy offense that was already struggling. Why even give them the chance at a short field? Dumb.

 

 

Aaron Rodgers finds 9 seconds to throw on a normal play. I am sure he would appreciate if other teams rushed more players. I don't think Aaron Rodgers is 99% lucky on his Hail Marys. There is a reason he keeps finding ways to do it. Richard Rodgers one was in credible timing/accuracy/box out. The Cardinals playoff one was to a singular receiver and one incredible throw. Those aren't luck. Those are incredible plays by a player who can do everything.

[FVBrewerFan]

One thing I started pondering last year...why don't teams blitz on likely hail mary plays? It seems like teams generally send 3 or 4 to maximize DB's in the chaos. But why let the QB have 4+ seconds to throw the ball? I'm sure they're afraid to have too few guys back, but I prefer coaching to win rather than coaching not to lose

 

Yea, I would rush 6. DBs are not covering the whole field, or even the receivers. They should get to the end zone and find the ball. And having 5 guys do that should be plenty.

 

With that said, there was what 6 seconds left? Giants had to guard against a possible real quick out pattern to get into FG range.

 

I guess I would rush two DB's from way wide since they're faster than any lineman and should at least make the QB run and drop everyone else in coverage. Why even bother going after the QB since you're going to be severely out manned anyway.

 

Maybe I'm missing your point, but looks like you said two different things here? You answered your own question I think, which I agree with. Why bother going after the QB? So he can never get set and throw it 50+ yards. As you said, you load one side of the line with quick pass rushers on one edge, impossible to block them all so QB has to run and try to chuck it. That's really tough to get off a good throw, even Rodgers.