Is Joey Votto Tradable?

[pacopete4]

Votto will make $25M per year until the age of 41 (2024), has a full no trade clause but slashed .326/.434/.550/.985 last season while playing 150+ games. Now this is not a thread for the Brewers to trade for him but just more of a discussion of whether or not a team would even trade for him? A very good player who just has a ridiculous contract (more so because it goes through his age of 41).

[MrTPlush]

I mean he can be traded, yeah. I am sure teams would line up to hear what it would take. The big problem is the length of that contract. He has already turned 33 and is exiting his prime as we speak(though he didn't show that in the second half). To take on that much money at that age is a giant gamble. Defensive metrics also didn't like him last year which could be quite a concern if that eats into his offensive value.

 

On the bright side there is, hopefully, still some elite years left in him. I also believe there is a better chance he can stay relevant even through a decline as he makes good contact and holds a very strong OBP. So even if the power slips he should still sustain a .800 OPS. Not great but if that is what you get at the tail end hard to complain.

 

He is similar to Ryan Braun. Eat some money and you can probably get a pretty good return.

[reillymcshane]

Votto will make $25M per year until the age of 41 (2024), has a full no trade clause but slashed .326/.434/.550/.985 last season while playing 150+ games. Now this is not a thread for the Brewers to trade for him but just more of a discussion of whether or not a team would even trade for him? A very good player who just has a ridiculous contract (more so because it goes through his age of 41).

Toronto reportedly contacted the Reds about trading for Votto this past summer. I imagine some money would have to go back, but I don't see why not. The guy is still an incredible hitter, and moving to the AL would probably be good - allow him to DH. He doesn't look great on defense.

 

Again, it all would come down to moving some money. Just how much is another question. I don't think anyone would absorb the entire salary.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see Toronto try to get him this off season. He could be a good replacement for Encanarcion and Bautista, both of whom are free agents. Votto is Canadian - born in Toronto - so he probably would welcome the move. And the Jays would have a nice PR opportunity with the native son thing going on.

 

Couple of notes.

 

Votto's contract goes through is age 39 season (2023). He turns 40 in September of the last year of the deal.

 

He makes $22M in 2017, and then $25M from 2018-23. That's $172M at minimum.

 

There is a club option for 2024 for $20M with a $7M buyout.

[LouisEly]

When I look at Votto I see a guy who keeps himself in pretty good shape. Assuming he maintains those habits I think he will age better than the average player and could (meaning not definitely, but possibly) maintain decent production until age 40.

 

When I look at the amount of money that the Dodgers, Angels, Red Sox, and Yankees have coming off the books over the next two years - and how three of those teams will be shedding a 1B at a similar salary over the next two - I think he can get moved. Depends on how desperate those teams are to compete/rebuild.

 

The Angels are taking in $150M/year in TV revenue, have Hamilton's contract coming off the books after next season, and are very RH dominant. C.J. Cron + Huston Street + cash for Votto? The Angels would have $100M tied up in four players (Trout, Votto, Pujols, Simmons), but you put Votto's bat in the lineup between Trout and Pujols, and it still leaves some money to pursue pitching and a LH 3B (Moustakas?) or a LH LF (Bruce?) in FA.

 

They Yankees could also make a move. Greg Bird is a nice prospect but has been injury prone. This also might give the Yankees a chance to move Gardner's/Headley's/McCann's contracts off their books. Bird + Gardner + Headley for Votto? Might be more realistic than the Angels.

 

And to echo reillymcshane, Toronto is a possibility with the contracts coming off of their books.

[trwi7]

Every player can be traded. Now no team is going to assume the entire financial commitment but if the Reds want to move on and are willing to pick up some money, a big market team would be willing to take the risk that he would be able to have a few great years left and that his decline years he would still be a productive hitter.

[pacopete4]

I just thought he was an interesting candidate for a trade but has some real big benchmarks to hurdle if he were to be traded. Like others have stated, he's an incredible bat that probably belongs in the AL towards the later part of his career and that he may already be exiting his prime years now with a lot of money left on the table.

[joepepsi]

The Tigers tradede Prince after the second season of his contract with about the same amount of money/years remaining as Votto. They agreed to pay $6 million a year, I believe. So I can see this happening pretty easily. Reds paying $6-8 million a year is a lot less than being on the hook for the $25M/year he has coming to him.

[MrTPlush]

The Tigers tradede Prince after the second season of his contract with about the same amount of money/years remaining as Votto. They agreed to pay $6 million a year, I believe. So I can see this happening pretty easily. Reds paying $6-8 million a year is a lot less than being on the hook for the $25M/year he has coming to him.

 

Oh Rangers...wow that trade looked dumb at the time and it was indeed dumb in the end. Somehow ended up being worse than I envisioned.

[Ennder]

Of course it is. If you take on some of the contract every single contract in baseball is trade-able.

[Roderick]

Of course it is. If you take on some of the contract every single contract in baseball is trade-able.

 

Obviously not every single contract. But he does bring up the point since this topic came up. What positive value does he have above his contract. So if Cincy doesn't eat a penny what would they be able to get in a trade for Votto?

[reillymcshane]

I guess in determining Votto's value, we can ask a couple of questions:

 

If Joey Votto was a free agent this off season, with no compensation attached, would he be able to get a 7-year deal worth $172M (plus a team option for $20M with a $7M buyout)?

 

Such a contract would take Votto through his age 39 season (2023). He turns 40 in September of the final year of the deal.

 

If someone would sign him to this kind of deal - I think then he is theoretically tradable (without Cincy kicking in a bunch of money).

 

If no one would sign him to this contract, then what kind of contract would he be worth? 6-years/$150M? 5 Years/$125M?

 

I ask, because then that might be a good way to value what the Reds need to kick back. So if 6-years/$150M is Votto's top value, that means Cincy needs to send back $20-25M to facilitate the trade. More if they want back prospects.

 

It doesn't have to be money the Reds send back. They can take on other team's contracts as well - but you get the idea.

 

I guess that, in the end, what would Votta get on the free agent market?

[Point Beer Is Best]

I guess in determining Votto's value, we can ask a couple of questions:

 

If Joey Votto was a free agent this off season, with no compensation attached, would he be able to get a 7-year deal worth $172M (plus a team option for $20M with a $7M buyout)?

 

Such a contract would take Votto through his age 39 season (2023). He turns 40 in September of the final year of the deal.

 

If someone would sign him to this kind of deal - I think then he is theoretically tradable (without Cincy kicking in a bunch of money).

 

If no one would sign him to this contract, then what kind of contract would he be worth? 6-years/$150M? 5 Years/$125M?

 

I ask, because then that might be a good way to value what the Reds need to kick back. So if 6-years/$150M is Votto's top value, that means Cincy needs to send back $20-25M to facilitate the trade. More if they want back prospects.

 

It doesn't have to be money the Reds send back. They can take on other team's contracts as well - but you get the idea.

 

I guess that, in the end, what would Votta get on the free agent market?

 

Another way of asking this, and perhaps it was done and we don't know about it, is would anyone claim Votto if he were placed on revocable waivers in August? If no one was willing to even make a claim on him out of fear of getting saddled with that contract, then Cincy knows it will have to eat salary to move him for any return at all.

[ZBTMP]

General rule is about .5 WAR per year after age 30. If we go with he is a 5 win player now, that means he should be expected to produce about 21 wins over the next 7 years. With increasing revenue in the game, I'm not sure what the cost per win is anymore but 8.5 million per win for a guy that would be coveted by most of baseball seems reasonable.

[joepepsi]

The Tigers tradede Prince after the second season of his contract with about the same amount of money/years remaining as Votto. They agreed to pay $6 million a year, I believe. So I can see this happening pretty easily. Reds paying $6-8 million a year is a lot less than being on the hook for the $25M/year he has coming to him.

 

Oh Rangers...wow that trade looked dumb at the time and it was indeed dumb in the end. Somehow ended up being worse than I envisioned.

 

Actually, didn't the Rangers luck out? Since Prince can't play anymore, insurance is probably paying out most of his contract.

[reillymcshane]

The Tigers tradede Prince after the second season of his contract with about the same amount of money/years remaining as Votto. They agreed to pay $6 million a year, I believe. So I can see this happening pretty easily. Reds paying $6-8 million a year is a lot less than being on the hook for the $25M/year he has coming to him.

 

Oh Rangers...wow that trade looked dumb at the time and it was indeed dumb in the end. Somehow ended up being worse than I envisioned.

 

Actually, didn't the Rangers luck out? Since Prince can't play anymore, insurance is probably paying out most of his contract.

Prince's contract is paid out as follows (annually from 2017-2020):

 

$9M from Texas

$6M from Detroit

$9M from insurance

 

So the Rangers paid Prince $54M over the last three years (2014-16), plus will add in $36M over the next four years. That totals $90M for at total of 0.3 bWAR.

[AKCheesehead]

It really makes me wonder how these insurance policies work, and what the premiums are.