Braun's place on the Power 50?

[And That]

Braun as one of the fastest college players in the draft, and he had 21 steals in 22 attempts this year. He also hits for average as well as power.

 

He can run, I can accept that. However, speed on the basepaths does not necessarily translate over to defense. Inverse case in point, J.J. Hardy is one of the fastest defender with the glove you'll have the privilege to see, but he'll never steal more than 10 bases in a season. And hitting for power and average in college really doesn't do anything for me. So many people have done that and utterly failed in pro ball, it is not really even worth further discussion as a general topic.

 

With Hardy going off the power 50 soon, Braun should take his slot.

 

Hardy can play defense, and has a projectable bat. Braun has a questionably projectible bat and an equally questionable glove. If he ends up in the outfield, he's that much less valuable. I have no doubt he'll be able to hit up to AA or so. Beyond that, I don't know.

 

Toby thinks he knows draft prospects better than the entire Brewer scouting department.

 

No, but claiming the Brewers scouting department as infallible just because you like a guy is faulty, at best. They've missed on a number of high picks under Jack Z's reign, and it is not that difficlult to speculate they may well miss on a #1 eventually. I think they've missed on this guy. It is as simple as that. I've never taken a stand against one of their first round picks as stridently as this one, but this is their pick who I don't like. It goes no further than that.

 

The 20 year old Wahpehpah has been good with great peripherils at A ball, while the 23 year Baker has been crushed at the same level.

 

And Baker has been crushed at the A-ball level, while Wahpepah hasn't. That said, I think a lot of people would have projected the same thing I did coming into the season. Pitchers are much harder to gauge, and the difference I had between Baker and Wahpehpah was very small, just like BA's. Yah, I missed so far, but that is how it is. I don't think either of them are great MLB prospects at this point, and likewise I don't think Carlos V. is a great MLB prospect for the Brewers because of his HR against totals. I'll take flack for it, but I think the Brewers will switch him to a reliever role and then trade him, much like Liriano a year ago. It is my list, and that is how I feel. I think I've had a pretty good track record considering.

 

I really like Gamel, and he'll be not that far behind Braun. Inman is a tricky case with his injuries, but he'll be in the top 30 someplace. I don't see any of the other guys, apart from Roberts maybe lighting up the Pioneer League, in the top 30. I think this was a solid draft, maybe more of a depth draft than anything else.

 

I just don't see Braun as anything more than a utility player right now. He has a long swing, and has that hitch at the beginning of his swing that bothers me a lot. If he can fix it and still get his bat speed across well, he'll be fine, but I don't know that he'll ever be a third baseman. That is how it is with me. If you don't like it, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Never Outhustled]

I don't know that he'll ever be a third baseman.

 

Its obvious you've never seen Braun play 3B, and your just reading what other hacks have wrote about him. Those of us who've seen him play know the defensive questions are a joke. He could possibly still play SS. He will likely be an outstanding defensive 3B because of his superior athletism and work ethic. As for how he projects with the bat, never bet against bat speed. Collegiate players who've put up big offensive numbers and failed as pro's all were the same type of players. They were fully developed and matured hitters with slow bats. The Jeremy Browns of the world.

[molitor fan]

Though we all love you and the Power 50, and that, I have to agree with what X ellence said.....

 

Braun has the skills to play third after watching him play...the footwork, pivot to 2nd on the dp, and arm strength were all evidenced in the series v. Nebraska. Considering that Gordon is apparently being converted to the outfield also adds an interesting element to this conversation. I still hold out hope for Jeremy Brown to be a productive pro however.....

[Katuluu]

Its obvious you've never seen Braun play 3B, and your just reading what other hacks have wrote about him. Those of us who've seen him play know the defensive questions are a joke.

 

Yeah, and Toby is the one with the issues of thinking he knows more then anyone.

 

And I've seen Braun play D, and while he has skills, he's incredibly raw. He also has a rather annoying habit of backhanding balls hit directly at him. How he picked that up I have no idea, but it needs to be fixed.

[madbad2000]

I think people need to settle down a bit. We're debating his initial spot on the Power 50 and trust me, only one person around here has control of that. And it's obvious no one has been able to persuade Toby over the years.

 

How about we agree to disagree? Once Braun is in the system and performing, first hand accounts and minor league stats start coming around and everyone can better gauge him. I'd have no problem with Braun anywhere on the Power 50. Toby has a track record of making up for his mistakes and quickly adjusting the Power 50 to make up for it. So where he starts is nearly a moot point, now after one or two Power 50's, then a real debate can take place.

[tyguy20204]

Obviously, no one has the right to tell Toby who should place where on his Power 50 list.

 

However, I think he is criminally underrating Braun as a prospect based on objective data and resources more familiar with the player than himself. And he will have to (and does, I think) accept that if his opinion proves to be wrong in this case that it will hurt the credibility of his opinions in the future.

[BillScottCanRake]

Michael has made the best point of all. Even if Braun is left off the next power 50 entirely, Toby will put him were he belongs if he knows he's misplaced him. His opinion's of Braun are just as valid as the opinions of others here.

 

Let's throw a fit two months from know if he's still not where everyone thinks he is... and let's also be sure to apologize to Toby is he turns out to be right.

 

Oh, and where would Maybin be in the power 50? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[colbyjack]

Toby makes very good points, and even though I don't agree with his opinion entirely on Braun, I definitely respect where he's coming from. We all have our favorite prospects.

 

I'm still torn on Braun, as I think the scouting department was a little too keyed in on filling the gigantic organizational hole at 3B, and may have made a huge mistake passing on Maybin (although he did slide to the Tigers with the 10th overall pick). Again as Toby points out, while Jack Z. and his staff have done a good job, they certainly have missed on a lot of high picks as well. No scouting dep't. is perfect of course.

 

One thing I don't agree with is the notion that Braun will be considered a failure if he doesn't stay at 3B. If he hits well enough while playing a corner OF spot, or just about anywhere else, it doesn't matter where he ends up.

 

One thing I like about Braun is his athleticism. I have seen a few people suggest that he could make a good catcher, as he has a similar build to Michael Barrett in that he's strong in the hips and throughout his lower half. I'm not suggesting we try to groom him as a catcher, since the team seems to want to fast-track him as much as possible, but that does stand for something. I think it's important to remember that most of his errors at 3B came early in the season, and as he got used to the position the errors tapered off considerably. I see no reason why he couldn't stay at the hot corner, and I agree with X that he could start his young career at SS. I guarantee you if the A's or Blue Jays drafted him they would probably start his pro career at SS.

 

As X points out, raw athleticism and pure bat speed can make up for a lot of other deficiencies. In this sense, Braun is not that different from Rickie Weeks, whom many considered a no-brainer.

 

And I also agree with Michael that the initial placement of Braun doesn't mean much. Toby should take it as a compliment that the Power 50 rankings are taken so seriously, even if people vehemently disagree with some of the rankings.

[SoCalBrewfan]

I believe Earl Weaver said: it's what you learn after you know it all that counts.

[splitterpfj]

The Power 50 is one of my favorite features on the site, however you feel about Toby's assessment of Braun, it's great to see a good debate about it.

 

Any draft pick is a risk, but I'd take a guy like Braun more often than not, the only one of Jack Z's #1's who looks like a certain miss right now is Jones.........a high school pitcher. Give me the guy who has speed, power and has faced some better competition every time.

[clancyphile]

splitterpfj

 

And the Jones "miss" is due to something completely out of Jack Z's control.

 

As for Braun, I'd like to see him spend time at shortstop, too. I believe he was playing SS at Miami - he only moved because they needed a 3B, not due to any deficiencies on Braun's part.

 

I think if he were a SS, this would be seen as a "no-brainer" pick. If only because you cannot have too many shortstops.

[molitor fan]

I just wanted to add that the time element is a big factor, as the fact that his current schedule prevents the Power 50 being done with the frequency that it once was. That simply means that the corrections are seen later than what some people would like....but that is just the nature of what being busy is all about - less time to sift through the data. We just got spoiled with the pace of the updates in years past.

 

Just to show the difference, here is the listing of the Power 50 submissions in the last few years...

 

06/07/2005

04/24/2005

03/06/2005

12/18/2004

10/16/2004

09/11/2004

08/28/2004

08/14/2004

07/31/2004

07/17/2004

07/10/2004

06/19/2004

06/05/2004

05/22/2004

05/08/2004

04/25/2004

04/08/2004

02/27/2004

12/04/2003

10/16/2003

09/04/2003

08/28/2003

08/21/2003

08/14/2003

08/07/2003

07/31/2003

07/24/2003

07/17/2003

07/10/2003

06/26/2003

06/19/2003

06/12/2003

06/05/2003

05/29/2003

05/22/2003

05/15/2003

05/03/2003

04/24/2003

04/17/2003

04/10/2003

04/03/2003