Brewers with lowest payroll in Majors for 2016

[molitor fan]

http://tripleplaybaseball.proboards.com/thread/23714/mlb-salaries?page=1&scrollTo=72409

 

Thought this was very interesting...Forgive the weird aspects surrounding it, as it actually comes from a post made in a fantasy league I am in but the data is accurate

[ZBTMP]

That number is actually higher than what the Brewers spent because it includes 12 million for Hill when the Brewers spent only a small portion of that + Lucroy savings.

 

Attansio has shown a willingness to spend money on the major league product, certainly more so than a roughly comparable market like Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Enough so, that Im not too worried about simply the owner lining his pockets.

 

I was ready to jump on Attansio (or prematurely did) had the Brewers dropped the ball on High A, but disaster averted for now there. Still, it'd be nice to see some investment in player development/facilities (spring training facility, AAA francise, A+ franchise, player development staff, international scouting, etc.) while our payroll is where it is. I havent seen it yet, but it doesnt mean they are investing in higher tech data tracking technologies that wouldnt be widely reported.

 

It would have been nice to see the Brewers have spend some money on a unknown like Maeda or Oh (its easy in hindsight to not say Park ) as a risk reward much like how they turned Aoki into Smith into Susac/Bickford, but it is what it is.

[1992casey]

63,908,300 is the Opening Day 25-man number. At some point, Cots will give us the end-of-the-year 40-man number. It'll be interesting to see where the Brewers ended up.

 

I think that if there's any "news" involved in the Brewers' low payroll number, it's the fact that they didn't put any great effort into achieving it.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think that if there's any "news" involved in the Brewers' low payroll number, it's the fact that they didn't put any great effort into achieving it.

 

That and, despite the lowest payroll in baseball, were no where near the worst team.

[Greenleaf1]

One of the most impressive parts of the rebuild so far was how easily they were able to shed payroll without sacrificing their bargaining position in trades.

 

We had a nice combination of players that were too expensive for us to keep long term but still performed well enough to net solid returns in trades. Most teams when shedding payroll have to have that as their #1 concern, whereas with us it happened almost by accident.

 

The good news is that this puts us in a great position to spend in the future on extensions of current players and really explore the free agent market over the next few years in ways we haven't been able to do before. If we could trade Braun/Garza this offseason, we might actually save enough money to go after a TOR pitcher in free agency and actually afford it.

[JohnBriggs12]

None of the scheduled arby guys (see thread with MLBTR projections) will break the bank, though Carter will get a nice raise and deservedly so.

[monty57]

One of the most impressive parts of the rebuild so far was how easily they were able to shed payroll without sacrificing their bargaining position in trades.

 

We had a nice combination of players that were too expensive for us to keep long term but still performed well enough to net solid returns in trades. Most teams when shedding payroll have to have that as their #1 concern, whereas with us it happened almost by accident.

 

The good news is that this puts us in a great position to spend in the future on extensions of current players and really explore the free agent market over the next few years in ways we haven't been able to do before. If we could trade Braun/Garza this offseason, we might actually save enough money to go after a TOR pitcher in free agency and actually afford it.

 

I personally believe that Melvin decided a couple of years before Attanasio that a rebuild was in order, so the only dead meat left hanging by the time Attanasio decided a rebuild was necessary were two FA deals Melvin was against, Lohse and Garza.

 

Meanwhile, Lucroy and Gomez were steals. Whether Melvin foresaw something, got lucky, or a little of both, those two signings right before the players broke out are a big reason the Brewers turn around should be a lot quicker than most.

 

I think you're a season early on the TOR free agent, but I agree that when the time comes we should be able to make a play for one. I'm thinking next offseason, when Garza and likely Carter are off the books and more of our better prospects are on the MLB roster.

[Greenleaf1]

I wasn't saying they should get a TOR starter this offseason, more like after 2017 or 2018, whenever we think we're ready to compete and there are enough starters on the market that we'd be able to afford one without competing with everyone else to sign them (like we would be this offseason).

[MrTPlush]

Meanwhile, Lucroy and Gomez were steals. Whether Melvin foresaw something, got lucky, or a little of both, those two signings right before the players broke out are a big reason the Brewers turn around should be a lot quicker than most.

 

With Gomez I think they saw something in him. He had the GG defense and partially broke out the year before the deal was signed. Now with Lucroy I think they were lucky with how well he ended up, but they made a smart buy low with his extension. They had a revolving door of washed up catchers for years and they saw Lucroy as at least a passable starter who was young. Its funny because a lot of experts were left scratching their heads criticizing the deal and it became one of the biggest steals in baseball.

 

As far as a big play for a TOR starter I also think it is possible in either 2018 or 2019. I know a lot of people think no way, but there is no reason we can't go out and get a Johnny Cueto. Cueto got $22mil a year and the Brewers could easily fit that into the future payroll. Honestly I think they could get a Jon Lester level pitcher if they wanted. I hope it happens, but only time will tell if Stearns wants to put that on the payroll.

[ZBTMP]

 

As far as a big play for a TOR starter I also think it is possible in either 2018 or 2019. I know a lot of people think no way, but there is no reason we can't go out and get a Johnny Cueto. Cueto got $22mil a year and the Brewers could easily fit that into the future payroll. Honestly I think they could get a Jon Lester level pitcher if they wanted. I hope it happens, but only time will tell if Stearns wants to put that on the payroll.

 

Its important to remember that Cueto was only available at 22 million a year because he slumped through the second half of last season with an ERA over 4.5 and FIP over 5. The Giants could have just as easily gotten what the Tigers got with Jordan Zimmerman also at 22 million per year.

 

The Brewers will always be sitting in a revenue hole with half of baseball having a 9 figure tv contract and the Brewers with 30 million. Contract of Otani is going to priced out of what the Brewers can afford.

 

At the end of the day, the Brewers are unlikely to get surplus value from free agency, no matter what they sign on the open market. There may be some still in international FA signings, but the bust potential is high and the Brewers dont have a known scouting presence in Asia. The best place to get surplus value is to lock up players to extended team control and that is where the Brewers should try to focus future financial dollars.

 

Plenty of teams have built winners without committing top dollar to free agent pitchers. You can say the Brewers haven't had the pitching developmental track record of those organizations, but the bottom line is they need to get there.

edit: I missed Strasburg had signed an extension already

[MrTPlush]

 

As far as a big play for a TOR starter I also think it is possible in either 2018 or 2019. I know a lot of people think no way, but there is no reason we can't go out and get a Johnny Cueto. Cueto got $22mil a year and the Brewers could easily fit that into the future payroll. Honestly I think they could get a Jon Lester level pitcher if they wanted. I hope it happens, but only time will tell if Stearns wants to put that on the payroll.

 

Its important to remember that Cueto was only available at 22 million a year because he slumped through the second half of last season with an ERA over 4.5 and FIP over 5. The Giants could have just as easily gotten what the Tigers got with Jordan Zimmerman also at 22 million per year.

 

The Brewers will always be sitting in a revenue hole with half of baseball having a 9 figure tv counteract and the Brewers with 30 million. Contract of Otani is going to priced out of what the Brewers can afford.

 

edit: I missed Strasburg had signed an extension already

 

Basic example don't take it too seriously. Gotta take risks to win big.

 

Speaking of TV contracts we are closing in on a new one of those and should get a pretty sizable bump up.

[ZBTMP]

 

Basic example don't take it too seriously. Gotta take risks to win big.

 

Speaking of TV contracts we are closing in on a new one of those and should get a pretty sizable bump up.

 

Some risks are fine, but you keep playing at the casino you are eventually going to end up in the red.

 

From a macro-level the Brewers are far better spending dollars on extensions than the FA market.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/teams-saved-500-million-by-locking-up-players-early/

[MrTPlush]

 

Basic example don't take it too seriously. Gotta take risks to win big.

 

Speaking of TV contracts we are closing in on a new one of those and should get a pretty sizable bump up.

 

Some risks are fine, but you keep playing at the casino you are eventually going to end up in the red.

 

From a macro-level the Brewers are far better spending dollars on extensions than the FA market.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/teams-saved-500-million-by-locking-up-players-early/

 

In a perfect world sure and economically sure. However to win a World Series you need an ace. If we cannot develop such player you can't really invest in an extension can you? Either we trade for one or we sign one as a FA. Which is better? If the money is easily there I'd say signing one is better. You get more years than if we traded valuable prospects.

[And That]

FWIW, last night I threw this spreadsheet together, and I have the Brewers at a total payroll spend of approximately $55,307,000 in 2016.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B86F-cCNo5RxdzlTdkxzbk9GVVE/view?usp=sharing

 

The $63 million number (from Cot's) includes the deferred portions of Braun's and Garza's deals, which my version does not.

 

Aaron Hill's number is a little bit of a swag, but I think it's pretty close. There's also a breakdown by position.

 

Taylor Jungmann missed a year of total service time by a day, at least by my calculation.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

Basic example don't take it too seriously. Gotta take risks to win big.

 

Speaking of TV contracts we are closing in on a new one of those and should get a pretty sizable bump up.

 

Some risks are fine, but you keep playing at the casino you are eventually going to end up in the red.

 

From a macro-level the Brewers are far better spending dollars on extensions than the FA market.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/teams-saved-500-million-by-locking-up-players-early/

 

In a perfect world sure and economically sure. However to win a World Series you need an ace. If we cannot develop such player you can't really invest in an extension can you? Either we trade for one or we sign one as a FA. Which is better? If the money is easily there I'd say signing one is better. You get more years than if we traded valuable prospects.

 

Why do people keep saying this when it isn't true? How much have the Mets, Nats, and Dodgers won with stacked rotations the last few years? Where was the Royals ace the last two seasons? And of course the Cardinals a few years ago won with a disaster of a rotation. And no true ace will ever sign with Milwaukee because some other team can easily tack on a few more million or years than the Brewers can or should.

[FVBrewerFan]

Why do people keep saying this when it isn't true? How much have the Mets, Nats, and Dodgers won with stacked rotations the last few years? Where was the Royals ace the last two seasons? And of course the Cardinals a few years ago won with a disaster of a rotation. And no true ace will ever sign with Milwaukee because some other team can easily tack on a few more million or years than the Brewers can or should.

 

I agree with the first part. Obviously have a true ace (or two) increases chances of winning the WS. But plenty of examples where that was not the case.

 

With that said, I don't think you can say no true ace will EVER sign with the Brewers. All it takes is for one guy to really like the fit, and Mark A willing to step up and pay. Mark A has said he's willing to spend when it's time. Maybe that doesn't mean a Kershaw, could be step below that. Or even a position player.

 

But I have no doubt Mark A wants to win, and actually can't wait to spend money on a big acquisition. Let's just hope he's learned, and doesn't throw money around just because he can. Needs to be the right piece.

[MrTPlush]

Why do people keep saying this when it isn't true?

 

Let me explain it better. If you don't have an ace good luck winning the World Series. It is unlikely and the odds are against you for many reasons. Honestly without an ace making the postseason in general is a stretch. There are examples of teams winning the World Series without an ace, but those are few and far between.

 

2015- No ace

2014- Ace

2013- Ace

2012- Ace

2011- Yes and No(Carpenter didn't dominate the regular season, but we know what he could do)

2010- Ace

2009- Ace

2008- Ace

2007- Ace

2006- Ace

2005- Ace

2004- Ace

2003- Ace

2002- Ace

2001- Ace

2001- Ace

 

There is only ONE example this century of a team winning the World Series without an ace type pitcher. That is the only solid example there has been. I am not saying you need a 2.50 ERA elite pitcher to win the World Series, but if you think you are going anywhere with a bunch of 3.50 ERA pitchers or worse it isn't going to happen. I think a lot of it has to do with needing one of those guys to make the postseason, but it sure does help if you get Kershaw,MadBum, or a Greinke pitching 2 of the games every series and being relief ready for a third.

[Roderick]

The $63 million number (from Cot's) includes the deferred portions of Braun's and Garza's deals, which my version does not.

 

Which means that you are using cash flow basis for your spreadsheet, right? If so, I believe you need to add $2.33M for Lohse for his 2016 deferred payment.

[brewmann04]

Mark showed his wiliness to spend and yes I hear that he upset with Maryvale but still needs to find a place to move too. I am not sure they are looking to team up with another team and share.

as far as the Minors both the brewers and the Farm team have to be willing to do a deal to purchase a team does sound not easy to do.

[ZBTMP]

We are getting into the semantics of what is an “ace”. Citing Mark Buehrle or 2013 Jon Lester as why the Brewers need to plan to commit a large% of their future payroll to outbid deeper pocketed teams for a “TOR” pitcher seems a bit of a stretch. Several pitchers in the Brewers system I could see producing at similar levels for at least a season.

The bottom line is the Brewers aren’t going to build a sustainable winner unless they develop pitching. Saying we can’t develop one, so we gamble to hopefully sign one isn’t the best path for a sustainable winner. With our current pitching depth, Im not so sure we don’t already have a Jacob Degrom, Corey Kluber, Kyle Hendricks, or Dallas Keuchel somewhere in the system.

[MrTPlush]

We are getting into the semantics of what is an “ace”. Citing Mark Buehrle or 2013 Jon Lester as why the Brewers need to plan to commit a large% of their future payroll to outbid deeper pocketed teams for a “TOR” pitcher seems a bit of a stretch. Several pitchers in the Brewers system I could see producing at similar levels for at least a season.

The bottom line is the Brewers aren’t going to build a sustainable winner unless they develop pitching. Saying we can’t develop one, so we gamble to hopefully sign one isn’t the best path for a sustainable winner. With our current pitching depth, Im not so sure we don’t already have a Jacob Degrom, Corey Kluber, Kyle Hendricks, or Dallas Keuchel somewhere in the system.

 

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. However when the time comes to compete and that guy isn't there what are you going to do? Nothing? Nope, you are either trading for one or buying one. You surely aren't sitting on your hands hoping he just pops up while you waste away good seasons.

[And That]

I believe you need to add $2.33M for Lohse for his 2016 deferred payment.

Good catch! Updated.

 

I also never realized before how exactly staggered the Lohse (2016-2018), Garza (2019-2021), and Braun (2022-2031) deferrals are.

[FVBrewerFan]

The bottom line is the Brewers aren’t going to build a sustainable winner unless they develop pitching. Saying we can’t develop one, so we gamble to hopefully sign one isn’t the best path for a sustainable winner. With our current pitching depth, Im not so sure we don’t already have a Jacob Degrom, Corey Kluber, Kyle Hendricks, or Dallas Keuchel somewhere in the system.

 

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. However when the time comes to compete and that guy isn't there what are you going to do? Nothing? Nope, you are either trading for one or buying one. You surely aren't sitting on your hands hoping he just pops up while you waste away good seasons.

 

Yea, and it doesn't need to be an "either/or." Hopefully they can develop one, better yet two or three really good SP. That doesn't mean they still can't or shouldn't go out and try to get an ace, TOR, #1, whatever you want to call it. They will have a ton of money to spend, especially if they move Braun. At some point you have to go "all in" especially when you're just spending money to do it, instead of trading a bunch of top talent to get that pitcher.

[brewcrewdue80]

Getting what you pay for this year. Only 1 playoff team on that list is under 100million. Cleveland at 96.3.

The avg of the 10 teams to make is 161.16mil

Remove highest and lowest LA/Clv is drops to just 158.19mil.

 

12 teams total on this had payroll under 100million. 5 of them were between 96-100.

Leaves just 7 teams below 90mil and as can be expected 6 of 7 of them in the bottom 10 W/L record for 2016

Cincy, Philly, Oak, Atl, Tam, and Milw. Miami at 79wins 14th worst record.

 

That's 60mil roughly on the lower 1/3 of the League in payroll. Which is 60% over their total team payroll. That's the equivalent of the upper 20 teams having 40man game day roster on the season vs 25.

[MrTPlush]

The bottom line is the Brewers aren’t going to build a sustainable winner unless they develop pitching. Saying we can’t develop one, so we gamble to hopefully sign one isn’t the best path for a sustainable winner. With our current pitching depth, Im not so sure we don’t already have a Jacob Degrom, Corey Kluber, Kyle Hendricks, or Dallas Keuchel somewhere in the system.

 

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. However when the time comes to compete and that guy isn't there what are you going to do? Nothing? Nope, you are either trading for one or buying one. You surely aren't sitting on your hands hoping he just pops up while you waste away good seasons.

 

Yea, and it doesn't need to be an "either/or." Hopefully they can develop one, better yet two or three really good SP. That doesn't mean they still can't or shouldn't go out and try to get an ace, TOR, #1, whatever you want to call it. They will have a ton of money to spend, especially if they move Braun. At some point you have to go "all in" especially when you're just spending money to do it, instead of trading a bunch of top talent to get that pitcher.

 

Right eventually they are going to spend big money in FA as payroll is going to be so minimal when we are competing again. No doubt in my mind they want to trade Braun to free up more cash when we start to compete among other reasons. Eventually I think they splurge on a $15mil+ player most likely a pitcher. Between low payroll, possibly trading Braun, and a new TV contract a few years out it all adds up to signing a major player if need be. The money will be there.