Brewers to announce largest-ever capital project at Miller Park (Latest: multimillion dollar concessions project, post 74)

[And That]

And it would take business away from the bars and restaurants on Bluemound that are packed on Brewer gamedays. Most likely a lot of people lose their jobs and some of those places close.

Yep.

 

If there were to be a major development adjacent to Miller Park, it would have to be something complimentary to the park and surrounding community, not something that just moves jobs from here to there. So a "stadium village" type thing either would not work, or would steal business from the local bars. That's not good community building.

 

A hotel in and of itself isn't a great idea either, because of the park's proximity (or lack thereof) to downtown.

 

The only thing that immediately pops into my head is a destination mall/entertainment complex, something along the lines of the Mall of America here in Minnesota. Though it would have to be a scaled down version, if I'm remembering the surrounding area right. It fits the complimentary criteria of a place to go during the offseason and during the season for away games. Like the MoA, an indoor theme park might be a good idea. Maybe add a hotel. I don't know how much it would poach from surrounding entertainment options, and that's something that would have to be looked at.

 

And maybe that's not feasible. I've never lived in Milwaukee, and haven't lived in Wisconsin for many years, so I don't have the pulse of the area that others here may have.

 

Over a long enough timeline and with enough infrastructure and private spending, I'm sure the Miller Park area could be turned into a neighborhood hotspot type of area, but you're not going to do it by throwing a bunch of money at a stadium village and hoping for the best.

[bork]

There was talk of building an entertainment/shopping area when Miller Park was first built on all the abandoned industrial and railroad land to the east. But the city decided they wanted a business park to bring higher paying jobs to the area. And now that business park is almost full.

[MilwaukeesBest]

Building up the area could create a lot of jobs. It gets people to spend money. Maybe you need to check your economics. Gotta spend money to make money.

 

Aside from everyone else's posts demonstrating why your point isn't necessarily valid, there have been countless studies that show building a stadium or developments around an area that actually do more detriment than good. Just because business A moves right next to Miller Park, it doesn't mean jobs are created. It could simply mean the relocation of a business from one spot to another. Another example is raising property tax. Raising this tax to fund the project could price out people from existing neighborhoods if they can't pay their new taxes. Not a good scenario. The same idea that you need to spend money to make money, while can work, is why athletic departments that are not big time programs consistently don't turn profits and is also one of the main reasons our country is 14 trillion dollars in debt.

[Ennder]

I wouldn't call downtown STL a dense urban settlement. It's fairly well avoided. If there isn't a game going on, downtown is a deadzone. Ballpark village is nice, and I'm sure some luxury condos will sell for it's proximity to the stadium, but it's a novelty at best. The big money in STL lives in the 'burbs, and a bit further away in Central West End. Ballpark Village has succeeded because it has basically put every "ballpark" bar out of business.

 

 

This is patently false. The museums are downtown, the Arch is downtown, the brewery is downtown etc. Everything that is "worth" visiting is downtown. If you are visiting St Louis you are most likely downtown. Miller Park is not a tourist area outside of the stadium.

[Invader3K]

My guess is that the Brewers have done an analysis and found that an "entertainment area" around Miller Park would probably not do well.

 

Looking around the country, many malls are half vacant, and strip malls aren no longer being built in many areas anymore. That economic model doesn't necessarily work in 2016.

[And That]

Looking around the country, many malls are half vacant, and strip malls are no longer being built in many areas anymore. That economic model doesn't necessarily work in 2016.

Mall vacancy is a highly localized issue - for every half vacant mall, there is a mall that is full and raising rents due to retailer competition. Both regional and strip malls reached peak vacancy back in late 2011, and vacancy rates have generally been declining since, down to about 8% at present for regional, a tick under 10% for strip. There is some thought out there that the great brick and mortar disaster peaked because there is only so much that people are willing to buy online. Maybe, maybe not. Though it is true that there are some things people absolutely still go to the store to buy.

 

To mitigate vacancy issues, that's why I suggested a mixed-use entertainment complex, maybe two big box anchors, another .75-1 million square feet for smaller tenants, an indoor amusement/water park, theater, hotel, parking ramp w/skyway linking hotel and stadium, etc.

 

No idea if it would work, and the Brewers have probably studied it. But if I had to put an idea out there, that would be it.

[MrTPlush]

The issue with trying to build anything around Miller Park is simple. Miller Park is in an unattractive spot(for businesses). Build something and guess what you have? You have a mall/entertainment building in an unattractive spot.

 

Build a strip mall/shopping? That is great, but why I am picking to go there? Why not go to one of the nice suburbs and do my shopping at a similar style place with food/more lodging options close by?

 

It just doesn't make sense. Any business will go to a better location. Miller Park is a poor location. It's a poor idea for the Brewers. They would have to pour hundreds of millions into the area to make it worthwhile. All while eating up a massive chunk of their parking lots.

 

If anything I could see a hotel being built within walking distance...that would be really nice. Make it have some type of view of Miller Park. Problem is baseball season goes and tumble weeds are skipping across the parking lots.

[And That]

If you are able to figure out how to build something that people will want to go to, people will go there. Micro-gentrification of urban areas happens all of the time. Using words like "unattractive" and "poor location" and "just doesn't make sense" doesn't change the fact that there are ways to make a development like this viable. Maybe very difficult and quite possibly not worth the risk (at least not to the Brewers), but dismissing ideas out of hand because of current conditions is not something developers do. A lot of foresight and vision is involved in the process.

[rwa12]

This is patently false. The museums are downtown, the Arch is downtown, the brewery is downtown etc. Everything that is "worth" visiting is downtown. If you are visiting St Louis you are most likely downtown. Miller Park is not a tourist area outside of the stadium.

 

The Arch is downtown, nothing else that you mentioned is considered downtown. The museums are in Forest Park, which is not considered downtown. The Arch is, the stadiums are, City Hall, etc. All downtown. The river front area is considered "downtown". So, nothing I said was false. Your understanding of the STL neighborhoods is lacking.

[owbc]

This whole discussion reminded me of a time that I went to a Brewers game with an Orioles fan who had never been to Milwaukee. We drove into the game from Madison. After we got to our seats he looked toward the outfield windows and asked me "Where's Milwaukee?"

[Point Beer Is Best]

This is patently false. The museums are downtown, the Arch is downtown, the brewery is downtown etc. Everything that is "worth" visiting is downtown. If you are visiting St Louis you are most likely downtown. Miller Park is not a tourist area outside of the stadium.

 

The Arch is downtown, nothing else that you mentioned is considered downtown. The museums are in Forest Park, which is not considered downtown. The Arch is, the stadiums are, City Hall, etc. All downtown. The river front area is considered "downtown". So, nothing I said was false. Your understanding of the STL neighborhoods is lacking.

 

The St. Louis Zoo and Art Museum are in Forest Park, but the City Museum (a pretty big tourist destination along with the Arch) is smack dab in the middle of downtown St. Louis.

[LouisEly]

Meanwhile.... in St. Louis.....this was just announced.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stl/ballpark/ballpark_village/phase2/

As someone who recently lived in downtown STL (yes, downtown - Washington and Tucker, next to the Washington entertainment corridor), I wouldn't get too excited about this. As RWA mentioned, if there isn't a game (Cardinals or Blues) going on, downtown is fairly deserted. The convention center will bring some activity during the week, but when people go out they go to Soulard (the brewery)/LaFayette Park, Clayton/Forest Park, etc.

 

I lived in one of the nicer condo buildings in downtown and you can get 1200 sq. ft. in that building for $150K. You can find 1500-1600 sq. ft. warehouse lofts with upscale finishings for $200K and 3-4000 sq. ft. for $400K. There just isn't demand for housing in downtown STL. I don't think this is going to change it.

 

Ballpark Village is nice, but nicer restaurants in downtown STL were closing left and right when I was there. Mike Shannon's - closed. Joe Buck's - closed. Ballpark Village draws people in because they have free parking until 9pm and will host smaller concerts, but people drive in - and then drive away at night (typically the Metro-East - i.e. Illinois suburbs - crowd).

 

I don't know what they expect to get for "luxury housing", but if they think they can get a lot more than $200/sq. ft. they might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Particularly if they have 29 floors of residences to sell. There is a possibility that this could be a financial loss for them.

[MrTPlush]

I don't know what they expect to get for "luxury housing", but if they think they can get a lot more than $200/sq. ft. they might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Particularly if they have 29 floors of residences to sell. There is a possibility that this could be a financial loss for them.

 

What you are thinking of as luxury and what they actually mean by luxury are probably two entirely different visions. I am guessing they are talking it up as more than it really is regarding "luxury".

 

That being said I imagine a lot of players and people that work for the team in different degrees are going to flock to the new residential building pretty quickly. You are also talking stellar views of the stadium and on the other side views of the arch/river. Obviously it is hard t judge it without knowing the plans, but there is a good chance it becomes the best residential building in downtown St Louis.

 

Whether or not they will find the people to fill it is a good question, but I bet there is someone way smarter than me that already figured out the answer is yes.

[gypcasino]

Here are all the local

beers they're going to have

https://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/miller-park-local-brews-draft-list

[gypcasino]

I think I've finally reached my breaking point with the beer prices

http://milwaukeerecord.com/food-drink/take-a-look-at-miller-parks-new-local-brews-bar/

[jerichoholicninja]

I think I've finally reached my breaking point with the beer prices

http://milwaukeerecord.com/food-drink/take-a-look-at-miller-parks-new-local-brews-bar/

 

Only if you enjoy hipster beer that tastes only slightly less horrible than Miller/Coors/Bud.

[rickh150]

I think I've finally reached my breaking point with the beer prices

http://milwaukeerecord.com/food-drink/take-a-look-at-miller-parks-new-local-brews-bar/

 

Only if you enjoy hipster beer that tastes only slightly less horrible than Miller/Coors/Bud.

 

Only time now (when Brewers are "good" again in a few years)) until they ban carry-ins....wouldn't that be the next logical step?

[MrTPlush]

I was sad they didn't have spotted cow. However at those prices I guess it doesn't matter. Pretty sure you can still get the big brands for $7 though. So there is a positive.

[DHonks]

I feel so old when I'm saying this (I'm 36), but my friends and I are SO done with all the darn hipsters and their pale ales and IPA's. Such awful beers, and they dominate the menus in so many locations these days.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I think I've finally reached my breaking point with the beer prices

http://milwaukeerecord.com/food-drink/take-a-look-at-miller-parks-new-local-brews-bar/

 

$10 for a Miller lite? Like what's the deal with that? Are all beers going to be $10? Why would you buy a $10 miller lite there? $14 for a beer is pretty bad. I know those are good beers, but that's 2 six packs of decent beer at a liquor store.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I feel so old when I'm saying this (I'm 36), but my friends and I are SO done with all the darn hipsters and their pale ales and IPA's. Such awful beers, and they dominate the menus in so many locations these days.

 

I'm 40 and I'm not a hipster and I like pale ales. Some of the IPAs are over the top but pale ales can be good.

[JimH5]

They probably need to have a Miller presence at every beer venue. And they might use the $10 Miller Lite price as a way to get fans to not balk at the $12 and $14 craft beer prices.

 

I do like the homage to all the local breweries, but my palate isn't sophisticated enough to really enjoy the exotics. I grew up drinking mass produced pilsner and lager, so many of the craft beers that I've tried are overwhelming to my taste buds. I'll try and enjoy lots of different foods, but my beer preferences are Miller and Leinenkugel products.

[Outlander]

I wonder if they would allow somebody to wear a shirt that said Bat$h!t Crazy in the park.

[JimH5]

I wonder if they would allow somebody to wear a shirt that said Bat$h!t Crazy in the park.

 

Great observation. Not the most family friendly product offering.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, I don't think age or being a hipster has anything to do with liking good beer. (And I always thought hipsters liked PBR and High Life?) I'm not an IPA fan, but I do like a lot of other styles.

 

In fact, there's some good choices on that beer menu, but I won't be paying $12-$14 for one. Although they really should have more hefeweiss and other summer type beers. I guess that's what tailgating is for, those prices are ridiculous.