Stearns's First Season: 2016 MLB Transactions Review

[MrTPlush]

I don't think the problem with trading Davis was the fact we could have won two more games. It is more the fact we could, quite possibly, got more than we did. Then to a lesser extent Nottingham being dreadful at catcher which isn't exactly a great thing.

 

For me it is more Nottingham being so bad defensively and if he can't stick at catcher big fail on our scouting department for whiffing on that. I think the A's sold high in Nottingham knowing his defense might not be good enough. Of course we don't know yet because he is still at catcher and young. After a year though things aren't looking very good.

 

I don't get too bent out of shape over him having more value now because I wouldn't have held onto him last winter. They needed to open up the OF spot and that was the reality. If we had room for him I most certainly wouldn't have moved him for a Nottingham package, but there just wasn't a spot moving forward for him.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't think the problem with trading Davis was the fact we could have won two more games. It is more the fact we could, quite possibly, got more than we did. Then to a lesser extent Nottingham being dreadful at catcher which isn't exactly a great thing.

 

For me it is more Nottingham being so bad defensively and if he can't stick at catcher big fail on our scouting department for whiffing on that. I think the A's sold high in Nottingham knowing his defense might not be good enough. Of course we don't know yet because he is still at catcher and young. After a year though things aren't looking very good.

 

I don't get too bent out of shape over him having more value now because I wouldn't have held onto him last winter. They needed to open up the OF spot and that was the reality. If we had room for him I most certainly wouldn't have moved him for a Nottingham package, but there just wasn't a spot moving forward for him.

 

It's fair to say they could have gotten more for Davis. It's not fair to say that anyone could have known that Nottingham was going to tank this badly.

 

I think my point is that repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated harping on the Khris Davis trade is losing sight of the bigger picture.

 

The Villar pickup was a success.

The Carter pickup worked out, whether the team keeps him or trades him.

The Broxton/Rodgers trade appears to have been a success for the Brewers.

 

Jury is still out obviously, but a handful of trades this year added a lot of young, controllable talent for a couple of relievers and a 30 year old catcher who had one year left on his deal.

 

No GM "wins" every trade. That's just not how it works. Picking one trade and saying "this one stinked!" does a disservice to the ones that worked, to the ones that added a great deal of value to the team either as players for the next contending team or as future assets to be traded.

[pacopete4]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

[FVBrewerFan]

It's fair to say they could have gotten more for Davis. It's not fair to say that anyone could have known that Nottingham was going to tank this badly.

 

Wow, we're giving up on Nottingham this quickly? After playing in a league where he was THREE years younger than average? He still had stretches where he hit very well, which should give us some hope. We'll learn more about him both offensively and defensively next season. Until then, let's not be so quick to hit the eject button.

 

I will agree they could have gotten more for Davis by waiting. That meant no spot for Santana. Also, and this never gets mentioned, what if Davis would have been injured this year or had a bad year?

[homer]

I will agree they could have gotten more for Davis by waiting. That meant no spot for Santana. Also, and this never gets mentioned, what if Davis would have been injured this year or had a bad year?

 

That's the thing people overlook. Davis has been hurt a lot in his career.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's fair to say they could have gotten more for Davis. It's not fair to say that anyone could have known that Nottingham was going to tank this badly.

 

Wow, we're giving up on Nottingham this quickly? After playing in a league where he was THREE years younger than average? He still had stretches where he hit very well, which should give us some hope. We'll learn more about him both offensively and defensively next season. Until then, let's not be so quick to hit the eject button.

 

I will agree they could have gotten more for Davis by waiting. That meant no spot for Santana. Also, and this never gets mentioned, what if Davis would have been injured this year or had a bad year?

 

I'm not giving up on Nottingham. In fact, two posts prior I said "not all prospects who have bad years are flame outs".

[rwa12]

Chris Carter is essentially Khris Davis. We signed him from the scrap heap for nothing. That is what Khris Davis is worth to me. We were able to get a C prospect and a RP prospect for someone who will get 2.5 million on a 1 year contract in 2 years. I don't care if they pan out, Davis was a DH on an NL team. There are not exactly a shortage of these guys Carter/Reynolds/Moss come to mind as guys who can basically only hit HR. I lose no sleep over losing Khris Davis.

[adambr2]

The Davis' angst is really overblown. Davis' entire body of work, even with his 40 HRs, is still a mild, if any, upgrade from his replacements this year. If I had to take only Davis or Keon Broxton going forward in the OF, I'd take Broxton 10 times out of 10.

 

Davis had no place in our future, and now we really have no room for him. We got what was considered a borderline top 100 prospect for him at the time and one of the top catching prospects in the minors, how much more do you really think he is worth now?

 

And even if you want to argue Stearns lost the Davis trade, which is fine, are you really expecting a 100% success rate on his deals? The other GM is also trying to win his trades. He obviously knocked the Villar and Broxton trades out of the park, so even if you want to chalk the Davis one up as a loss, can you name another trade that Stearns has actually lost? And please don't say Segura, with what Isan Diaz has been doing and going to be shooting up on top prospects lists this year. That one is still TBD.

[pacopete4]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

[MrTPlush]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

 

One does not need to watch Nottingham to know he had a horrid year behind the dish. 21 passed balls, 15 errors, and a CS% of just 29% is really bad. That is WAY too much and needs to start improving on. The real question is did he do anything well? Blocking skills obviously don't show up on the stats sheet nor does his game calling(the former I have heard is shaky at best). If those things were half decent at least he would have something going for him. The few times I saw mentions on his defense this year it was pretty similar to what was said before the season. Still very questionable and not much improvement on last year which is not a great sign. Still has athletic ability and youth on his side to keep hope alive.

 

My biggest concern is the fact how much he needs to improve. A full MLB season and he would be at 25ish passed balls. Honestly there is no excuse for that to be over 10 for an MLB catcher and even that seems steep. The errors took a huge spike this year for whatever reason. Once again that number should be 5-10 not 15. Then you have his CS% which was 29% which is livable, however a catchers CS% usually goes down as he climbs the ladder so that number would be lower than 29% if he had MLB guys running on him daily.

 

He needs a ton of improvement plus his bat really needs to shine since his defense is going to be average at best. Honestly it gets to be a Clint Coulter situation where you contemplate just moving him so he can just focus on offense. If he doesn't make any strides next year I think that is what should be done.

[TheCrew07]

General receiving skills are pretty easy to assess without the eye test, Passed Balls and the # of Wild Pitches for the pitching staff will tell you pretty everything you to know about the current state of a catchers defense. Any ball in the dirt is by rule a wild pitch, regardless of how easy it would have been to block.

 

If you see 4-5 wild pitches per game and it's not someone like Evan Frederickson on the mound then the C has some issues, especially at AA.

[pacopete4]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

 

One does not need to watch Nottingham to know he had a horrid year behind the dish.

 

 

"Computers? Anybody who uses computers doesn't know a damn thing about [baseball]...You know what a computer can tell you? When to scratch your ass. What else do they tell you."

[MrTPlush]

"Computers? Anybody who uses computers doesn't know a damn thing about [baseball]...You know what a computer can tell you? When to scratch your ass. What else do they tell you."

 

Nice quote. If only Nottingham's defense was as good as it.

 

Since TheCrew07 mentioned wild pitches I went and looked up the Shuckers. For 2016 they had 87 as a team which isn't MLB worthy(double the 44 the Brewers have this year), but doesn't appear 80+ is uncommon. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to see how many weren't Nottingham and since he split levels last year I can't really gauge how he did last year at all.

[3and2Fastball]

This thread, while entertaining, is telling. We value a player like Khris Davis or Chris Carter who only gets on-base at a .325 rate or so, yet focus a lot on one of Stearns' possible mistakes.

 

No GM is going to bat 1.000 .... this is just year one of a multi year rebuild. When Corey Ray was drafted over a pitcher I was little concerned with what seems like a preoccupation with athletic outfielders, and wondered: where is the pitching going to come from? We've since added another athletic OF in Brinson, but also added more pitching. I don't know if the Susac acquisition is a reaction to disappointment in Nottingham or not....

 

 

(*note: edited for multiple grammatical errors)

[TheCrew07]

Geez, I did say "per game" when what I meant was "in a game" which is why I used a specific pitcher reference, my bad there. Nobody has 480 wild pitches in a season, that math was ridiculous, I should have proof read better than that.

 

Wild Pitches are base runner dependent so they aren't a great benchmark, but when used in conjunction with PBs you can get a pretty good idea. I still prefer the eye test to establish a ceiling if you will, which you aren't able to get from statistical analysis. However, other than vines and MILB.com video, I didn't watch any AA outside of Hader, and at the time I wasn't interested in Nottingham's defense. I was just taking a quick look at Hader's mechanics, control, command, and stuff. Hader isn't a sniper by any stretch, so it will be interesting to see how fares at MLB, he's a more nasty version of Peralta, but I think he'll be similarly up and down.

 

In his good years people claim he's the "true staff ace" and in his bad years people will wonder what happened to him. The answer of course will be nothing, players with difficult mechanics have a harder time being consistent. I would love to be wrong and have him be the first legit #2 for this next wave, I've been harping on the #2 concept forever, but I just didn't see enough to sell me yet.

 

Getting back to Nottingham I would hope he works his butt off this winter and repeats AA, he's young enough that shouldn't be a problem. Well, unless the organization wants to bump Carlos Leal up to AA upon his return because McDowell will deserve to be in A+ next year, which to me would be foolish. They did create an unnecessary back log of OFs in WI to start 2016, which had some players playing up to a level too high, so it's possible that would be the scenario. However I'm happy with the catchers we currently have minus Maldy, so I don't feel any pressure to rush Nottingham. I'm curious what the scouts will have to say about Nottingham when the prospect lists are updated at mlbpipeline and Baseball America this winter because on the surface it appears he didn't make much progress.

[FVBrewerFan]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

 

As others have said, the numbers tell us Nottingham was a bad catcher this year. I think a better question, and this may be what you're getting at, CAN Nottingham be a good catcher? That's where the eye test comes in.

 

Frankly, I think we'll have that answer come spring training. We'll see if the Brewers still believe he can catch, or if he's move to 1B.

[pacopete4]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

 

As others have said, the numbers tell us Nottingham was a bad catcher this year. I think a better question, and this may be what you're getting at, CAN Nottingham be a good catcher? That's where the eye test comes in.

 

Frankly, I think we'll have that answer come spring training. We'll see if the Brewers still believe he can catch, or if he's move to 1B.

 

 

I've never once disputed that his numbers aren't bad. I myself have no clue whether he can or cannot catch. My question was simple. Has anyone actually seen him play/catch? I'd love to hear what they think because it is very telling when you can actually see it live. We play armchair GM over guys we don't get the privilege of even seeing play.

[homer]

Nobody has 480 wild pitches in a season

 

 

[Never Outhustled]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

Bump. I'm really interested in this. People here are bashing him and I would love to hear someone who has actually seen him play.

 

One does not need to watch Nottingham to know he had a horrid year behind the dish. 21 passed balls, 15 errors, and a CS% of just 29% is really bad. That is WAY too much and needs to start improving on. The real question is did he do anything well? Blocking skills obviously don't show up on the stats sheet nor does his game calling(the former I have heard is shaky at best). If those things were half decent at least he would have something going for him. The few times I saw mentions on his defense this year it was pretty similar to what was said before the season. Still very questionable and not much improvement on last year which is not a great sign. Still has athletic ability and youth on his side to keep hope alive.

 

My biggest concern is the fact how much he needs to improve. A full MLB season and he would be at 25ish passed balls. Honestly there is no excuse for that to be over 10 for an MLB catcher and even that seems steep. The errors took a huge spike this year for whatever reason. Once again that number should be 5-10 not 15. Then you have his CS% which was 29% which is livable, however a catchers CS% usually goes down as he climbs the ladder so that number would be lower than 29% if he had MLB guys running on him daily.

 

He needs a ton of improvement plus his bat really needs to shine since his defense is going to be average at best. Honestly it gets to be a Clint Coulter situation where you contemplate just moving him so he can just focus on offense. If he doesn't make any strides next year I think that is what should be done.

 

When the Great Khris Davis was the same age as Nottingham is right now, Davis played for the Rookie Level Arizona Brewers, and he wasn't all that special. Any concerns over Nottingham's bat are rather premature.

 

Nottingham is over 6 months younger than our most recent 1st round draft pick Corey Ray. Ray turns 22 this week.

[jerichoholicninja]

How many people taking about Nottingham's defense has actually seen him catch? Just curious.

 

One does not need to watch Nottingham to know he had a horrid year behind the dish. 21 passed balls, 15 errors, and a CS% of just 29% is really bad. That is WAY too much and needs to start improving on. The real question is did he do anything well? Blocking skills obviously don't show up on the stats sheet nor does his game calling(the former I have heard is shaky at best). If those things were half decent at least he would have something going for him. The few times I saw mentions on his defense this year it was pretty similar to what was said before the season. Still very questionable and not much improvement on last year which is not a great sign. Still has athletic ability and youth on his side to keep hope alive.

 

My biggest concern is the fact how much he needs to improve. A full MLB season and he would be at 25ish passed balls. Honestly there is no excuse for that to be over 10 for an MLB catcher and even that seems steep. The errors took a huge spike this year for whatever reason. Once again that number should be 5-10 not 15. Then you have his CS% which was 29% which is livable, however a catchers CS% usually goes down as he climbs the ladder so that number would be lower than 29% if he had MLB guys running on him daily.

 

He needs a ton of improvement plus his bat really needs to shine since his defense is going to be average at best. Honestly it gets to be a Clint Coulter situation where you contemplate just moving him so he can just focus on offense. If he doesn't make any strides next year I think that is what should be done.

 

When the Great Khris Davis was the same age as Nottingham is right now, Davis played for the Rookie Level Arizona Brewers, and he wasn't all that special. Any concerns over Nottingham's bat are rather premature.

 

Nottingham is over 6 months younger than our most recent 1st round draft pick Corey Ray. Ray turns 22 this week.

 

I fail to see where anyone is having concerns about his bat.

[MrTPlush]

When the Great Khris Davis was the same age as Nottingham is right now, Davis played for the Rookie Level Arizona Brewers, and he wasn't all that special. Any concerns over Nottingham's bat are rather premature.

 

Nottingham is over 6 months younger than our most recent 1st round draft pick Corey Ray. Ray turns 22 this week.

 

"the Great Khris Davis" uhh...ok?

 

Never once questioned his offense. All I said is that offense will really need to shine if he sticks at catcher even with huge defensive strides.

[MrTPlush]

This thread, while entertaining, is telling. We value a player like Khris Davis or Chris Carter who only gets on-base at a .325 rate or so, yet focus a lot on one of Stearns' possible mistakes.

 

I think this trade has focused on some of his successes and some of his question marks. I don't see anything wrong with that. We shouldn't just pat Stearns on the back for everything he does and shrug of every time he does something wrong.

[DuWayne Steurer]

This thread, while entertaining, is telling. We value a player like Khris Davis or Chris Carter who only gets on-base at a .325 rate or so, yet focus a lot on one of Stearns' possible mistakes.

 

I think this trade has focused on some of his successes and some of his question marks. I don't see anything wrong with that. We shouldn't just pat Stearns on the back for everything he does and shrug of every time he does something wrong.

 

I don't think anyone is shrugging off the fact that this trade doesn't swing towards the "win" column for Stearns...... I think what some people are focusing on is that THIS trade in particular is being brought up over and over and over again as if it's some horrible black mark on Stearns' record for the past year.

 

As others (and myself) have said...... you don't win every trade. You CAN'T win every trade. Maybe Nottingham will pan out. Great! If not, that's too bad, and it sucks that we got nothing for a guy with one tool (though valuable). At this time, though, it seems that the focus should be on the fact that more of his trades and acquisitions than not have worked out to the positive side of things.

[MrTPlush]

I don't think anyone is shrugging off the fact that this trade doesn't swing towards the "win" column for Stearns...... I think what some people are focusing on is that THIS trade in particular is being brought up over and over and over again as if it's some horrible black mark on Stearns' record for the past year.

 

The only reason this argument even gets rolling again is because people endlessly reply to you know who even though he never provides any new information. The people complaining are probably part of the reason it is even being talked about still.

[gregmag]

I'm trying to be objective, and I have a hard time seeing a trade that Stearns has lost. The main problem is that we're less than a year out from his trades, so it's way too early to assess impact, especially for minor leaguers. In addition, people are always going to talk about how he (or any GM) could have gotten more in a particular deal.

 

If Jean Segura keeps hitting and Isan Diaz doesn't, we may end up losing that trade. But if they both keep hitting, or if one of the Hill trade guys pans out, or if we get something useful for Anderson, I'm more than happy with it.

 

Maybe none of the guys in the Lind trade develops. But Lind is subreplacement this year (even though he's hit 20 count 'em 20 home runs!), and that's hardly a shock. The Mariners have to be disappointed, but they and presumably other teams offered what they did because they knew Lind was likely to decline.

 

The Davis trade is a bigger version of the Lind trade. I like Khris Davis more than a lot of people here, and I do think he has increased his value somewhat with this season. He isn't a star, but he's a solid regular. That said, it's specious to evaluate the timing of any trade in a vacuum. If we had kept Davis this year, it would have essentially been a bigger version of the Aaron Hill gambit -- play a guy to build his trade value. With Davis soaking up PAs, we probably wouldn't know what we know about at least three of Broxton, Santana, Perez, and Flores (and, okay, Kirk), the first three of whom emerged as important players going forward. Braun would have also continued to play out of position in RF, which might have dampened his great year. We wouldn't have been able to justify another high-power, low-OBP bat, which means no Carter, which means maybe we don't use Jason Rogers to steal Broxton. It was time for Davis to go. As for the return, it's way too early to draw any firm conclusions. If Nottingham washes out, then we probably lose the trade.

 

Sardinas for Flores . . . Both sides got what they could reasonably expect.

 

Rodriguez for Betancourt / Pina could end up a loss. Rodriguez has had your basic late-model K-Rod season (he's been pretty consistent other than 2012). Betancourt was awful this year, but he -- like Nottingham -- was 21 and getting his first exposure to AA. (Those two were the youngest players on the Shuckers other than Luis Ortiz; also, BTW, Wendell Rijo was the youngest position player at Brevard.) If he pans out, or if Pina ends up playing a lot for us and hitting some, I'm happy with the trade.