What could Braun bring from the Dodgers?

[MKE81]

Just laughing at the people that think we would be getting prospects like De Leon or Bellinger back in a trade....Keep dreaming. Not getting their top prospects. I would be happy with Puig, Stewart and Sborz for Braun.

 

Besides, remember what Mark A stated, that any money saved will go back into the team. Rather bank roll that money at make some splashes come 2019

Completely agree. Puig, while being a nut job and clubhouse cancer, is still an elite talent. There is no way the Dodgers are giving up one of their best pitching/position prospects on top of that + another top 10 prospect. But it makes sense given what people expected for Lucroy. I wonder if Will Smith is possible given they have Grandal for 2yrs more + Austin Barnes on deck already.

[brewcrewdue80]

Just laughing at the people that think we would be getting prospects like De Leon or Bellinger back in a trade....Keep dreaming. Not getting their top prospects. I would be happy with Puig, Stewart and Sborz for Braun.

 

Besides, remember what Mark A stated, that any money saved will go back into the team. Rather bank roll that money at make some splashes come 2019

 

 

Taking 23million salary owed to a guy with 57IP in last two seasons Combined! and Only 1 season above 25 Games started/170+IP is worth something. You add 17.5million in taking on Puig's salary and you're at 40million over 2 seasons. Combined WAR of McCarthy/Puig last 2seasons combined....2.2BWar. And that's with lesser of salary on Puig. Puig costs 4million more the next 2 seasons than the barely above Replacement stats he's put up the last 2 seasons.

At best between the two McCarthy and Puig put up an 8.5BWar. Braun 8.2BWar in last two seasons combined.

 

Puig does not offer the higher ceiling. Peak Braun was when he was 26/27. Puig is heading in to that age with stats that don't suggest he will touch that ability.

Pitchers learn how to pitch a guy. Where his weakness is or where to pitch to have softer contact. Understand he has maxxed at 19HRs his Rookie year and 16HRs when he had 640PAs. 21 total last 2 seasons in 637PAs. Pretty strong evidence, that power he shown in rookie year has been diminished to a barely 20 HR season expectation. Something Braun exceeds every single season given that amount of PAs. More SBs better BB rate better SO rate. for Braun today not Peak Braun, than Puig.

 

And remember, we're doing them a favor by getting rid of Puig who is a clubhouse cancer and #1 pitcher in Baseball disgusts having as a teammate.

 

If A Bellinger or De Leon, or even Urias isn't part of an offer, then Milwaukee is far better off keeping Braun. Because any less of an offer isn't helping 1 bit of the future for Milwaukee. In 2years Braun's contract reduces. Puig and McCarthy? FAs.

[LouisEly]

Agreed with MKE81 that with the deal so close to completion, I don't see why they couldn't make it work soon after the end of the season.

 

Because things simply change. Once the off season hits the Dodgers will likely have other options they will explore. I have no doubts the teams will revisit this trade in the off season, but there is a reason the trade didn't happen. The teams simply couldn't agree on the return going back to the Brewers. Now yes they did run out of time, but there is no guarantee that more time would have lead to a better outcome. Regardless who knows what will happen in the off season as they could easily go a different route.

Things do change, and the biggest thing IMO is that the Dodgers have a ton of money coming off the books this year and next. The Dodgers have up to $90M coming off the books after the season, depending on what happens with Turner and Jansen. Right now they are committed to $179M next year ($189M is the luxury tax threshold), and if McCarthy and Puig get moved in the deal they are around $180M with the addition of Braun.

 

I think the hangup was centered around one or both of these things:

 

1) The Brewers want a 3rd team in the deal to take McCarthy or Puig

 

B) The Dodgers realized how close they can be to getting under the luxury tax for 2017 and want to figure out how to move Kendrick or Ethier, in this deal or another.

 

Particularly with scenario B, that could allow for huge implications for the Dodgers which time can provide.

[brewmann04]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

[pacopete4]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

 

Agreed. It just doesn't make sense to move him for Puig (a lesser player than Braun even will be in his 30's), an injury prone expensive pitcher and some lower level prospects. Like I said, screw that. Keep Braun if that's the deal.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

You are delusional if you think Ryan Braun and his contract will be bringing back top quality pitching.

[MKE81]

Agreed with MKE81 that with the deal so close to completion, I don't see why they couldn't make it work soon after the end of the season.

 

Because things simply change. Once the off season hits the Dodgers will likely have other options they will explore. I have no doubts the teams will revisit this trade in the off season, but there is a reason the trade didn't happen. The teams simply couldn't agree on the return going back to the Brewers. Now yes they did run out of time, but there is no guarantee that more time would have lead to a better outcome. Regardless who knows what will happen in the off season as they could easily go a different route.

Bob Nightengale of USA Today was on the Dan Patrick radio show this morning and he said this deal was almost completed but held up due to the deadline and they were still trying to agree on the 2nd prospect. He said Puig is gone for sure in the offseason and there's no reason not to revisit and both teams can get this deal done. That Puig has been a clubhouse cancer for both players and coaches - shows up late to meetings and BP. They want nothing to do with him anymore.

 

My point has always been twofold - (1) nobody else claimed him and everyone knows what he's capable of. Sure, more teams might have the opportunity given things are always changing. But now everyone knows what was offered for Puig. It was Braun. A player who ranks in the Top 10 in the entire NL in BA, SLG, OPS and is 17th in OBP. Also ranks 12th in HR, 14th in RBI while having 80-110 fewer ABs that the Top 5 guys in those categories (outside of Carter). Give him Bryant's ABs right now and he's hitting 32HR (3rd), 97RBI (4th) plus would rank 15th in SBs. He very well might be the only 30/15 player in the NL and one of five in all of MLB IF he reaches 30HR.

 

Again, (2) name another team where it's plausible they'd be willing to give up this quality of player in order to take on all that is Puig, McCarthy's salary + land 2 prospects (chances are not elite one's either)? THIS is why I think the deal gets done with the Dodgers in combination with they already agreed to all the parts outside of the 2nd prospect.

 

I'd assume one of the prospects is still pretty strong and the other halfway decent. IF Puig turns it around next year, at age 26, and keeps moving forward in the right direction then teams will trade for him and you'll get Top 100s in return - he'll be hitting his prime. McCarthy is what he is and he'll be traded or walk in 2yrs. The trade makes sense on both ends and it might be the only way to the top prospects you want from Braun - which is through Puig turning it around.

[Greenleaf1]

I really don't see Puig as the centerpiece of that deal. The Dodgers are motivated to move him, and Stearns knows that, and McCarthy takes care of any salary issues for Braun. Add the fact that Puig's years of control barely cover any competing years for us, and Stearns will definitely want something of great value in order to justify trading Braun. They have consistently reiterated that they do not need to shed salary with Braun. They want top quality prospects in return.

 

The article mentioned that the Brewers wanted De Leon. No team ever wants to get rid of top pitching prospects, but the Dodgers would be dealing from a position of strength there. Next year they already have Kershaw/Kazmir/Ryu/Urias/Maeda/Stripling/Wood as options for the rotation, even after trading McCarthy.

 

Had my eyes on De Leon and Brinson all year in hopes that we'd be getting them back in exchange for Braun and Lucroy. One of those came true already, really hoping DS can figure out this one too.

[MrTPlush]

The Brewers were not the only team to claim Braun. The Orioles and White Sox also claimed Puig.

[MKE81]

The Brewers were not the only team to claim Braun. The Orioles and White Sox also claimed Puig.

I never saw that so I stand corrected. My 2nd point, the more important one clearly, still hasn't been addressed though....

[And That]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

You are delusional if you think Ryan Braun and his contract will be bringing back top quality pitching.

Stop.

[FVBrewerFan]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

You are delusional if you think Ryan Braun and his contract will be bringing back top quality pitching.

 

Yea, because guys that OPS .914 grow on trees. And, as others have walked through in great detail, his contract is very reasonable. It would be a lot for the Dodgers to take on, which means the Brewers may need to take on a salary dump player like McCarthy from the Dodgers to make room.

 

Once that is resolved, now you're just talking about value. And Ryan Braun is worth a top pitching prospect any way you slice it.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

You are delusional if you think Ryan Braun and his contract will be bringing back top quality pitching.

 

Yea, because guys that OPS .914 grow on trees. And, as others have walked through in great detail, his contract is very reasonable. It would be a lot for the Dodgers to take on, which means the Brewers may need to take on a salary dump player like McCarthy from the Dodgers to make room.

 

Once that is resolved, now you're just talking about value. And Ryan Braun is worth a top pitching prospect any way you slice it.

 

 

Actually they would need to take on McCarthy AND Yasiel Puig (baggage and contract, which any team could have claimed off waivers BTW)

just to land a couple of mid-level prospects.

 

If the Brewers could have traded Braun by himself for a top pitching prospect at any point this season, they would have done it in a heartbeat.

 

None was offered. Hence, Braun is still a Brewer.

 

Which makes all the Brewer fans that overrate him happy, it seems.

[MKE81]

I hope to keep Braun myself unless blown away with top quality pitching.

 

You are delusional if you think Ryan Braun and his contract will be bringing back top quality pitching.

 

Yea, because guys that OPS .914 grow on trees. And, as others have walked through in great detail, his contract is very reasonable. It would be a lot for the Dodgers to take on, which means the Brewers may need to take on a salary dump player like McCarthy from the Dodgers to make room.

 

Once that is resolved, now you're just talking about value. And Ryan Braun is worth a top pitching prospect any way you slice it.

I hear you but with a talent like Puig coming back, especially given his age, I don't know if it's a given. If Stearns lands De Leon it's an incredible deal but I don't see it happening unless we're kicking something else in.

[tmwiese55]

Every one of these scenarios always ends up at the point that if they won't give back legit prospects then just keep him since we don't need to clear salary. If we're taking back a huge chunk of money in Puig/Mccarthy who are basically of no use to us right now, then it comes down to what you should get for a really really good hitter like Braun who is controlled for several more years. And yes, you should get something legit. If not, they're trying to screw you on the trade so just keep him.

 

LOL at calling Braun overrated. I actually did laugh.

[Mudville9]

Man, this article makes it seem like Braun is as good as gone. I can't believe it will be that easy.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2016/09/13/ryan-braun-yasiel-puig-dodgers-brewers-trade/90311414/

[MrTPlush]

I think people underrate the money we would be saving. It easy to look at the proposed deal and come to the conclusion it is a weak return. Which at face value that may be true. However what if Stearns took that money we are saving and signed a Yadier Alvarez type prospect plus more top international prospects? Is the return all that weak now?

 

Now its impossible to know where that saved money would go. Is Attanasio banking all the money we are saving on payroll for his own good and this would be the same? Would Braun's money just be piled on that so we can sign a big free agent in a few years? Would we do extensions with it? Would we sign international prospects with it? Regardless saving that money could be a big deal for the Brewers.

[MrTPlush]

And Ryan Braun is worth a top pitching prospect any way you slice it.

 

Then why is he still a Brewer? Why are we needing to pick up $30mil+ in salary? Why does no one want him for just the contract no prospects? It actually sounds like the total opposite is true. Not sure how people think Braun still has tons of value and has a team friendly contract. Neither is very accurate.

[SandyTolan]

So, let's say the trade is completed, Braun (or Braun + a reliever not named Thornburg) for Puig, McCarthy, plus De Leon and a lower level prospect. And let's say that Puig really does bounce back, big time. Not hard to imagine given his age. This could be a pretty decent lineup, say by July next year:

 

Villar 2B

Broxton (Brinson) CF

Puig RF

Perez 3B

Carter (or someone better) 1B

Santana LF

Arcia SS

Susac/Piña C

 

Rotation:

Guerra

Davies

De Leon

Hader

Woodruff

(Other #5 starter candidates: Jungman, Suter, Wilkerson, McCarthy. Peralta and Thornburg are the awesome 8th and 9th inning guys. Or if Thornburg is traded for a haul, Peralta just becomes the closer.)

 

Traded for prospects: Braun, Gennett, Maldonado, Torres, Nelson, Anderson, Garza (if possible)

 

Depending on how the kids do, this could be a .500 team or better, I think.

[pacopete4]

Man, this article makes it seem like Braun is as good as gone. I can't believe it will be that easy.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2016/09/13/ryan-braun-yasiel-puig-dodgers-brewers-trade/90311414/

 

Felt like I read an obituary. Rough to read the possibility of losing another homegrown great because our franchise in incapable of building a consistent winner any other way. Frustrating to be a fan of major league baseball the way it is designed.

[Greenleaf1]

I would argue that DS probably doesn't want only a top pitching prospect for Braun.

 

He's a proven elite player still performing at a top level, his contract is reasonable for his talent level for a team like the Dodgers than can afford it, and we're willing to eat money in the deal.

 

DS wants Puig, a top pitching prospect, and another prospect. There's no way DS is trading away Braun for one prospect.

 

There's clearly a huge divide on these forums about the value that a player like Braun has, and I'm sure his real value is somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn't be satisfied trading Braun unless a real impact prospect (Brinson/Ortiz level) is included in the deal. Unlike with Lucroy, he is locked up to a long, reasonable contract that will be very affordable during our rebuild, and I'd be perfectly fine keeping him and letting him lead this rebuild from the field like he has been doing this past year.

[Madhawk23]

I would argue that DS probably doesn't want only a top pitching prospect for Braun.

 

He's a proven elite player still performing at a top level, his contract is reasonable for his talent level for a team like the Dodgers than can afford it, and we're willing to eat money in the deal.

 

DS wants Puig, a top pitching prospect, and another prospect. There's no way DS is trading away Braun for one prospect.

 

There's clearly a huge divide on these forums about the value that a player like Braun has, and I'm sure his real value is somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn't be satisfied trading Braun unless a real impact prospect (Brinson/Ortiz level) is included in the deal. Unlike with Lucroy, he is locked up to a long, reasonable contract that will be very affordable during our rebuild, and I'd be perfectly fine keeping him and letting him lead this rebuild from the field like he has been doing this past year.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. In my opinion, there is no way that DS is trading Ryan Braun right now unless we are getting at least one top prospect back in return in the deal. He's absolutely one of the best hitters in baseball still, and I see no reason why he couldn't keep up a similar pace for at least a couple more years.

 

On top of this, we were willing to take on a clubhouse cancer in Puig that the Dodgers seem desperate to rid themselves of (even with his upside), and a lot of money with McCarthy. We have no need for either one of those guys, so the only reason in my mind that we'd take them on is if we are getting at least one top prospect piece back in return.

 

And if we aren't, then I would absolutely just hold onto Braun.

[splitterpfj]

I've said it before, so I won't go through the whole thing again, but Braun to the Dodgers has looked obvious to me for a while now - IF the Dodgers decided to pursue him, and IF the two sides could work out a deal.

 

They missed by minutes, apparently down to the final prospect coming to Milwaukee - obviously, a great deal of work has been done, and both teams are dead serious.

 

Barring a change of status for one of the players involved, this is going to happen, and it should.

 

LA has strong prospects to deal, and given his age and talent, Puig has the potential to either stick in Milwaukee for a while, or to bring in more prospects in a deal - Baltimore and the White Sox have already identified themselves as possible suitors, and that's just based on the deadline waiver process.

 

Root for Puig to play well and behave himself, and wait to hear which two kids the Brewers are getting. It's a lot of moving parts, but this could be a trade that makes sense for both teams.

 

Channeling Mr Spock ....

 

"Fascinating ..."

[And That]

Part of the reason why people are so sure the deal will get done this offseason and not later is that Braun's 10 and 5 rights kick in next May. So unlike with Lucroy, whom they could wait to trade, there is no waiting with Braun before an already difficult set of trade parameters becomes that much more tricky.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Braun were still a Brewer in spring training, but I would be equally as unshocked if Braun were to be traded within 2 weeks of the World Series ending.

 

Does anyone know when he submits his no-trade list for the 2017 season? Is that something he'd do in spring, or immediately after the World Series?

[splitterpfj]

Does anyone know when he submits his no-trade list for the 2017 season? Is that something he'd do in spring, or immediately after the World Series?

 

I don't, and Braun has changed the teams on his "OK" list over the years, but if I had to guess, I'd say the Dodgers would be his preferred destination, considering location, and contending status.