What could Braun bring from the Dodgers?

[Boomer5]

The two minor leaguers would have to be monsters for this trade to make much sense. Puig has very little value, especially to a rebuilding team that has invested in outfielders, and McCarthy is just added salary.

[reillymcshane]

I would hate seeing Braun in another uniform, but I get it.

[adambr2]

McCarthy is just added salary.

 

They're going to have to add some salary to trade Braun no matter what. May as well at least get a player in return rather than just paying Braun to play elsewhere.

 

I also don't really agree on Puig's lack of value. Coming into 2015 this guy had looked like an MVP candidate. He's obviously struggled since, but that'd be a lot more of a concern if he was 35 than the 25 he actually is.

 

There are a lot of ways to obtain value in a trade, a buy low like this is potentially one. We need to be creative and open to all avenues of improvement. Much as we'd all like to trade Braun free and clear for a couple top 50 prospects and be done with it, that isn't going to happen.

[pacopete4]

If we are taking back McCarthy then Garza must be moved. And/or Anderson. I don't want to see a rotation of:

 

1. Garza

2. Anderson

3. McCarthy

4. Davies

5. Guerra/Peralta

[recte44]

It was Puig, McCarthy, and two prospects for Braun, allegedly.

http://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-news-espn2-broadcast-sept-20-game-giants-dodger-stadium/2016/09/13/

 

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Thanks for the breaking news.

 

 

Re: What could Braun (or Braun/Thornburg) bring from the Dodgers? Report this post #101

Posted: September 10, 2016, 6:15 PM Post

McCalvy just mentioned that the Dodgers offer for Braun was Puig, McCarthy and 2 un-named minor leaguers...with BMacs salary included, it appeared that money back to LA would be minimal...He stated that the potential deal went to last possible moment, that Braun stayed at the stadium due to feeling it could get done, and that the two teams truly ran out of time to finalize details....Braun will not be a Brewer in 2017 (my opinion).

Sorry, missed that. Doesn't hurt to actually link an article, which post #101 didn't do. And thanks for the condescension.

 

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[pacopete4]

It was Puig, McCarthy, and two prospects for Braun, allegedly.

http://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-news-espn2-broadcast-sept-20-game-giants-dodger-stadium/2016/09/13/

 

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for the breaking news.

 

 

Re: What could Braun (or Braun/Thornburg) bring from the Dodgers? Report this post #101

Posted: September 10, 2016, 6:15 PM Post

McCalvy just mentioned that the Dodgers offer for Braun was Puig, McCarthy and 2 un-named minor leaguers...with BMacs salary included, it appeared that money back to LA would be minimal...He stated that the potential deal went to last possible moment, that Braun stayed at the stadium due to feeling it could get done, and that the two teams truly ran out of time to finalize details....Braun will not be a Brewer in 2017 (my opinion).

Sorry, missed that. Doesn't hurt to actually link an article, which post #101 didn't do. And thanks for the condescension.

 

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

 

I should've probably used blue. Was trying to be sarcastic. My bad.

[recte44]

It's all good.

 

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[MKE81]

Also, agree with molitor fan that if we came this close to dealing Braun he is all but gone this winter.

 

I highly disagree. The Dodgers were the only team the Brewers got that close with and the only other team on his no-trade list that has had interest is the Giants. The talks with the Giants didn't appear to get very far. It sound like talks with the Braves got pretty interesting(Chipper Jones getting involved), but Braun can block a trade there.

 

Sure doesn't sound like there are many teams interested in Braun with the Dodgers/Braves being the only teams getting serious. Dodgers go a different route and its questionable if a deal would happen.

 

Everyone thought Lucroy was all but gone before the season and he was here opening day.

It only takes one team in order for Braun to be gone.

 

Also, the majority of people thought Lucroy was gone by the start of the season but also knew he could very we'll be here in April and if he was still here he was 100% gone by the deadline. He would have been gone by April but offers were low ball due to the concussion.

 

If the Braun to LA deal was almost completed, to the point he stayed behind in LA, then why wouldn't it happen in the offseason when the parts were basically agreed upon? Nobody's kicking down the door for Puig right now and Braun is a great talent they're getting in return. Who else is going to give up an All-Star caliber player to take on Puig just to land a couple strong prospects?

[brewerfan82]

If we are taking back McCarthy then Garza must be moved. And/or Anderson. I don't want to see a rotation of:

 

1. Garza

2. Anderson

3. McCarthy

4. Davies

5. Guerra/Peralta

Where's Nelson? I don't think you have to worry too much about next year's rotation. Other than Nelson and Davies, I don't care who's in the rotation and I think they're both locks at this point. Garza and Guerra (and even McCarthy) are either gone or around for another half season to gain/solidify value for a trade. Peralta may be a bounce back candidate at this point, but he also could just be thrown into the pen to see how he does there. Anderson's just a guy. He could be a throw in in another trade (or does he actually have options left as well?).

 

But point being, Nelson and Davies will have their spots and I don't think it will hurt any of the prospects to spend more time in the minors, so the rest will sort itself out. It's going to be another rebuilding year, so a rotation of Davies, Nelson, and three of Guerra/Peralta/Garza/Anderson/McCarthy is fine for the first half of the season.

[jerichoholicninja]

Also, agree with molitor fan that if we came this close to dealing Braun he is all but gone this winter.

 

I highly disagree. The Dodgers were the only team the Brewers got that close with and the only other team on his no-trade list that has had interest is the Giants. The talks with the Giants didn't appear to get very far. It sound like talks with the Braves got pretty interesting(Chipper Jones getting involved), but Braun can block a trade there.

 

Sure doesn't sound like there are many teams interested in Braun with the Dodgers/Braves being the only teams getting serious. Dodgers go a different route and its questionable if a deal would happen.

 

Everyone thought Lucroy was all but gone before the season and he was here opening day.

It only takes one team in order for Braun to be gone.

 

Also, the majority of people thought Lucroy was gone by the start of the season but also knew he could very we'll be here in April and if he was still here he was 100% gone by the deadline. He would have been gone by April but offers were low ball due to the concussion.

 

If the Braun to LA deal was almost completed, to the point he stayed behind in LA, then why wouldn't it happen in the offseason when the parts were basically agreed upon? Nobody's kicking down the door for Puig right now and Braun is a great talent they're getting in return. Who else is going to give up an All-Star caliber player to take on Puig just to land a couple strong prospects?

 

Small sample but Puig's OPS is almost 1.500 since his callup. If he can do even half that the rest of the season and playoffs plenty of teams will be interested if the Dodgers even want to move him anymore.

[Polish Falcons]

If we are taking back McCarthy then Garza must be moved. And/or Anderson. I don't want to see a rotation of:

 

1. Garza

2. Anderson

3. McCarthy

4. Davies

5. Guerra/Peralta

Where's Nelson? I don't think you have to worry too much about next year's rotation. Other than Nelson and Davies, I don't care who's in the rotation and I think they're both locks at this point. Garza and Guerra (and even McCarthy) are either gone or around for another half season to gain/solidify value for a trade. Peralta may be a bounce back candidate at this point, but he also could just be thrown into the pen to see how he does there. Anderson's just a guy. He could be a throw in in another trade (or does he actually have options left as well?).

 

But point being, Nelson and Davies will have their spots and I don't think it will hurt any of the prospects to spend more time in the minors, so the rest will sort itself out. It's going to be another rebuilding year, so a rotation of Davies, Nelson, and three of Guerra/Peralta/Garza/Anderson/McCarthy is fine for the first half of the season.

 

 

I get what Brew4U is saying. I think just in terms of being a fan and watching games on a regular basis, it's not very fun to watch the likes of Garza/Andersonn/McCarthy. I can deal with one of them every five days (Anderson), two of them seems too much, and three would just be overly excessive. Given that we already have Garza and Anderson, the prospect of trading for Brandon McCarthy is not exciting. I understand that it is to take on salary and would be worth it in the right deal. I just am not sure if adding a McCarthy is any better than just eating the salary (same way I feel about Garza, I would let him walk, he is not building trade value).

 

I would rather see a rotation of Nelson, Davies, Guerra, Peralta earning another chance, and then the 5th guy would be a free agent/waiver claim (perhaps Stearns can find another surprise like he did with Guerra). Or give a prospect a chance to earn the 5th spot. Having these bad to mediocre old vets around just seems to block young guys or transactions that might result in something good.

 

The vision should be focused on the rebuild but I don't think having these guys around helps anything (except maybe "innings eating").

[FVBrewerFan]

Next year's rotation doesn't matter to me. I could take or leave Puig. And I would be willing to take on a Dodgers salary dump. All that stuff is superficial. Get back two real stud pitching prospects, with at least one of them in AA or higher. DeLeon plus a high ceiling A level pitcher for example. Get that back and tell me where to sign.

[djoctagone]

As was mentioned above, I think Braun's last game in Milwaukee as a home team player is approaching. I also hope that this is recognized and Braun receives an appropriate warm goodbye

braun's baby is due 22 september. the last home game is 25 september.

[Greenleaf1]

Puig and McCarthy both seem like strong bounceback candidates.

 

Assuming the prospects were of pretty decent quality (someone of Brinson/Ortiz quality and someone of Cordell quality), I would've LOVED this deal.

 

Get prospects for Braun, money off the books, and if Puig bounces back we either keep him or trade him for more prospects, same with McCarthy. Then trade Guerra at what will likely be his maximum value and trade Garza for anything.

 

Agreed with MKE81 that with the deal so close to completion, I don't see why they couldn't make it work soon after the end of the season.

[brewmann04]

I would like to see the Brewers go with some of their Prospects for next season to see how they will fit in the rotation. Then DS can see if he does need to add any pitching.

[mlloyd10]

Just laughing at the people that think we would be getting prospects like De Leon or Bellinger back in a trade....Keep dreaming. Not getting their top prospects. I would be happy with Puig, Stewart and Sborz for Braun.

 

Besides, remember what Mark A stated, that any money saved will go back into the team. Rather bank roll that money at make some splashes come 2019

[MrTPlush]

Agreed with MKE81 that with the deal so close to completion, I don't see why they couldn't make it work soon after the end of the season.

 

Because things simply change. Once the off season hits the Dodgers will likely have other options they will explore. I have no doubts the teams will revisit this trade in the off season, but there is a reason the trade didn't happen. The teams simply couldn't agree on the return going back to the Brewers. Now yes they did run out of time, but there is no guarantee that more time would have lead to a better outcome. Regardless who knows what will happen in the off season as they could easily go a different route.

[JosephC]

The biggest factor in the return the Brewers get for Braun is the amount of money they are willing to take on. Puig and McCarthy represent 34 million dollars, 42.5% of Braun's remaining guaranteed money. Even though the average annual value of Braun's deal remains at 21 million for luxury cap calculations, in terms of dollars actually paid out the deal becomes a 4 year, 46 million dollar investment for the Dodgers once the offset for the Puig/McCarthy deals are factored in (assuming they now consider those salaries dead money which it appears that they do). Braun at 4 years and 11.5 million per season...pretty safe to say the Brewers should land a big, big return under those circumstances.

 

Best guess is that Jose De Leon was probably the piece that hung this deal up. Wouldn't be at all surprised if the Dodgers were willing to deal him but couldn't due to the problems they currently have with their rotation. If those problems get cleared up in the off-season, De Leon to the Brewers seems like a realistic scenario. If the second prospect piece is another top 100 player, and I think that would be likely considering the Brewers would be taking on both the Puig and McCarthy contracts, that would be a wonderful haul for Braun.

[MrTPlush]

Just laughing at the people that think we would be getting prospects like De Leon or Bellinger back in a trade....Keep dreaming.

 

I agree with you...but man you can say it without the "crystal ball" wording. Puig is the player in this trade with a high ceiling. People will complain about his warts, but then again look at what we are trading. Braun is full of warts himself. If De Leon or Bellinger were in this trade who the second prospect was would not have been a deal breaker for the Brewers. They would have snatched that trade up in a heartbeat.

[MrTPlush]

once the offset for the Puig/McCarthy deals are factored in (assuming they now consider those salaries dead money which it appears that they do)

 

If Puig was dead money why haven't they traded him yet? They must have value in him or he would be gone. Many times teams have come knocking trying to get Puig by taking mainly just the contract.

[A Swing and A Drive]

If indeed the Brewers are willing to take on Puig AND McCarthy, I feel they could get a decent prospect or two added but NOT De Leon, Alvarez or Bellinger.

 

I would guess something like this...

 

Dodgers get:

OF Ryan Braun ('17=$19M, '18=$19,'19=$18M,'20=$16,'21=$15 Mutual option/$4 buyout)

RP Carlos Torres ('17=ARB, '18=ARB)

 

Brewers get:

OF Yasiel Puig ('17=$6.5M, '18=$7.5M, '19=ARB)

SP Brandon McCarthy ('17=$10M, '18=$10M, '19= $8M option)

and two prospects (MLB.com rank)

SP Walker Buehler(#7) or SP Brock Stewart (#14)

SP Imani Adullah(#16) or SP Chase De Jong (#17)

 

Both Puig and Braun come with baggage and considerable risk. However, Puig is more likely to INCREASE his trade value than Braun because of his age/upside.

Braun is the better current player and one a contender like the Dodgers would rather have.

Deal makes sense for both sides, really.

 

However, the Dodgers will have more leverage than the Brewers in the offseason and many more trade partners/options than they did at this deadline.

 

It could be an opportunity missed.

[reillymcshane]

I would guess something like this...

 

Dodgers get:

OF Ryan Braun ('17=$19M, '18=$19,'19=$18M,'20=$16,'21=$15 Mutual option/$4 buyout)

RP Carlos Torres ('17=ARB, '18=ARB)

 

Brewers get:

OF Yasiel Puig ('17=$6.5M, '18=$7.5M, '19=ARB)

SP Brandon McCarthy ('17=$10M, '18=$10M, '19= $8M option)

and two prospects (MLB.com rank)

SP Walker Buehler(#7) or SP Brock Stewart (#14)

SP Imani Adullah(#16) or SP Chase De Jong (#17)

I think this is more realistic than a lot of people's hopes. I just don't see Top 100 type guys coming back. That's my opinion. I'd be thrilled with Buehler.

[pacopete4]

I would guess something like this...

 

Dodgers get:

OF Ryan Braun ('17=$19M, '18=$19,'19=$18M,'20=$16,'21=$15 Mutual option/$4 buyout)

RP Carlos Torres ('17=ARB, '18=ARB)

 

Brewers get:

OF Yasiel Puig ('17=$6.5M, '18=$7.5M, '19=ARB)

SP Brandon McCarthy ('17=$10M, '18=$10M, '19= $8M option)

and two prospects (MLB.com rank)

SP Walker Buehler(#7) or SP Brock Stewart (#14)

SP Imani Adullah(#16) or SP Chase De Jong (#17)

I think this is more realistic than a lot of people's hopes. I just don't see Top 100 type guys coming back. That's my opinion. I'd be thrilled with Buehler.

 

Then I don't want to do the trade. If that's what we have to get in a return, screw it and keep Braun.

[JosephC]

once the offset for the Puig/McCarthy deals are factored in (assuming they now consider those salaries dead money which it appears that they do)

 

If Puig was dead money why haven't they traded him yet? They must have value in him or he would be gone. Many times teams have come knocking trying to get Puig by taking mainly just the contract.

 

You're right. I shouldn't have used the term "dead money" because if the Dodgers really viewed Puig that way they would have let him go to the Brewers on the waiver claim. But I do think the Dodger's view his value to them as "very minimal" currently because otherwise I don't think they would have shipped him to the minors. I also don't think the rest of the league evaluates his value as being that much greater, because if it did I think at least one other team would have been willing to give the Dodgers something significant in a possible deal instead of just offering to take on his contract.

[JosephC]

If indeed the Brewers are willing to take on Puig AND

Dodgers get:

OF Ryan Braun ('17=$19M, '18=$19,'19=$18M,'20=$16,'21=$15 Mutual option/$4 buyout)

RP Carlos Torres ('17=ARB, '18=ARB)

 

Brewers get:

OF Yasiel Puig ('17=$6.5M, '18=$7.5M, '19=ARB)

SP Brandon McCarthy ('17=$10M, '18=$10M, '19= $8M option)

and two prospects (MLB.com rank)

SP Walker Buehler(#7) or SP Brock Stewart (#14)

SP Imani Adullah(#16) or SP Chase De Jong (#17)

 

 

Put me down as another who would reject this deal. While I like Buehler a lot it's hard to get over the fact that he's only thrown a handful of innings over the last two years. That makes Puig the centerpiece of this deal from the Brewer's standpoint and I don't think the centerpiece of a Braun deal should be an outfielder with 3+ years of service time and a bad attitude that will also potentially block younger players coming up from the minors. There is just no way, absolutely no way, that I would take back 34 million in salary spread over 2 seasons...2 seasons in which the team doesn't figure in as a pennant contender...and not get at least 1 top 50 prospect in return. Now Puig and McCarthy could maybe be flipped later, but the Dodgers couldn't work out a trade for Puig before the deadline and McCarthy will only have value once he proves that he is healthy which isn't very often.

 

I still think there are plenty of other teams that match up with the Brewers (Astros in particular appear to be a great fit) and shopping Braun elsewhere rather than taking this deal would be an easy decision for me. I also don't think the no-trade clause will be that big of a deal. Why would Braun want to stay in the smallest market in baseball on a rebuilding team? He'll likely use his no-trade leverage to turn the option year of his deal into a player option and between the Brewers and a trade partner it's pretty likely they would work out the financials to get a deal done. And if the Dodger deal outlined above is the best offer the Brewers get, then I would be happy to keep Braun (although I probably do want him traded as much as anybody).