What could Braun bring from the Dodgers?

[DHonks]

I'd say his reaction this time makes it a near certainty, with the reaction to trading Lucroy and Braun back in June when he said the talk of trading Lucroy and Braun was just 'much ado about nothing ' and 'not actively shopping either of these guys.'

 

Adam, I would think the Brewers weren't actively shopping Lucroy. They were likely actively listening to offers. shopping someone seems to imply the Brewers were seeming desperate by trying to initiate all sorts of possibilities. Instead we wanted teams to come at us with their best offers

[LouisEly]

I am really getting at the whole "The deal was almost done" and "All but a done deal he is traded in the offseason". If these statements are true a major/elite prospect wasn't in play because the Brewers wouldn't lose out on a DeLeon while arguing over a lesser piece. All signs point to a deal nearly being reached without an elite prospect in play. I don't think are suddenly going to change that and a DeLeon type guy appears in talks. I think it is far fetched much like Mendez being the PTBNL in the Lucroy trade. It is possible, but most likely not.

I think it is the opposite - De Leon had to be in play. I'm not sure of the timing, but I'd be curious as to any reports of setbacks with the rehab of Kershaw/Ryu/McCarthy/Anderson and the timing of the deal. Rich Hill's blister issue came up at the end of August around the time of the supposed deal as did Brett Anderson being put back on the DL after two horrible outings and a blister issue. McCarthy threw two bullpen sessions on 8/24 and 8/29, but didn't get scheduled for a simulated game until 9/13. The fact that De Leon was called up and made three starts, the first on 9/4, could very well mean that it was the Dodgers that balked and pulled De Leon off the table thinking they may need De Leon for a playoff run.

[MrTPlush]

I think it is the opposite - De Leon had to be in play.

 

One thing is for sure DeLeon was never offered. Could he have been talked about and in the end not offered because of all the injuries? More than possible, but the fact they waited until September to call him up makes me question how much confidence they had in him helping. If they thought Jose DeLeon could help them so much why did it take them so long to promote him? Even then Braun>DeLeon going down the stretch. The theory of keeping him due to injuries is valid and possible, but I am leaning towards that not being the case.

[brewerfan82]

I think it is the opposite - De Leon had to be in play.

 

One thing is for sure DeLeon was never offered. Could he have been talked about and in the end not offered because of all the injuries? More than possible, but the fact they waited until September to call him up makes me question how much confidence they had in him helping. If they thought Jose DeLeon could help them so much why did it take them so long to promote him? Even then Braun>DeLeon going down the stretch. The theory of keeping him due to injuries is valid and possible, but I am leaning towards that not being the case.

How can you possibly say that? What if the Dodgers said, "Alright, you can have DeLeon, but we need another piece back then for some depth/insurance on our team. How about Guerra?" If that deal was offered with 5 minutes to go, it's quite likely the Brewers would want to make some further adjustments to the deal to make that work and simply ran out of time. None of us know how this went down and beyond Braun and Puig, it's all speculation whether certain other players may have been involved as well.

 

Edit: Guerra is likely a bad example as I doubt he passed through waivers to be eligible for a trade, but insert another player there and the point still stands.

[MrTPlush]

I think it is the opposite - De Leon had to be in play.

 

One thing is for sure DeLeon was never offered. Could he have been talked about and in the end not offered because of all the injuries? More than possible, but the fact they waited until September to call him up makes me question how much confidence they had in him helping. If they thought Jose DeLeon could help them so much why did it take them so long to promote him? Even then Braun>DeLeon going down the stretch. The theory of keeping him due to injuries is valid and possible, but I am leaning towards that not being the case.

How can you possibly say that?

 

How can LouisEly say DeLeon had to be in play?

 

Its just common sense about the situation. The Brewers wouldn't pass on DeLeon if they had a chance to get him. One can keep hoping he was or might be, but be ready for a big let down.

[brewmann04]

Be curious what if this deal gets revisted at some point in the offseason

[brewerfan82]

How can LouisEly say DeLeon had to be in play?

 

Its just common sense about the situation. The Brewers wouldn't pass on DeLeon if they had a chance to get him. One can keep hoping he was or might be, but be ready for a big let down.

I agree that there's no reason to believe he "had to be in play" either. Maybe it's just a pet peave of mine, but to me, speaking in definites comes off as arrogant and condescending to those who may disagree with your *opinion*. I still don't see how it's "common sense" about the situation. I know you think if DeLeon was offered in a deal that the Brewers would have agreed to it, but that's ignoring that there may have been other parameters to the deal offered (ie. Brewers needing to add another player, the Brewers taking on more money than they thought was worth it, etc.) that make it less obvious to accept just because one single piece of it happens to be something they want.

 

I also agree we'd be lucky to get a DeLeon in the deal and therefore it's probably a safe bet for you to keep saying it's not possible, but that has more to do with the fact that he's arguably their best prospect and therefore is one of the least likely players they would be willing to give up. That has nothing to do with "the deal didn't get done" therefore "DeLeon was never a possibility".

[superfly]

I have very strong feelings on this whole Braun situation so here goes. I just don't get why the majority of fans are not only willing but actually excited at the thought of trading Ryan Braun who is one of the three best hitters in team history in what would pretty much amount to a salary dump. It makes no sense to me to trade a franchise icon for the likes of a malcontent in Puig, a salary dump who is worthless in McCarthy and what will probably be one or two mediocre at best prospects.

 

If some team offers the Brewers elite young talent in return I can understand a Braun trade although I am still against it. With this team having pretty much no players other than Braun and Garza making big money I just don't see why this type of trade would make any sense. The thought of taking on a contract like McCarthy from the Dodgers of all teams to make it more palatable for them to fit Braun into their unlimited budget upsets me and should really bother more fans.

 

It really comes down to this for me; in order to trade Braun the Brewers need to get elite and I stress elite prospects in return or there should be no deal. We already have tons of depth so acquiring some teams 5-15 rated prospects just doesn't do enough for this franchise. If we aren't going to get top young talent we should just let Braun retire in a Brewers uniform like Robin Yount did before him.

 

 

Things always sound rosy in the land of Oz. Funny how a guy like Braun who actually has produced at an elite level in a Brewers uniform for a decade should be pawned off for whatever yet guys like Wily Peralta and Jimmy Nelson who are turned out to be marginal pitchers heaven forbid should have never been (or now) traded while they actually had a bit of value. Baffling to me how it's a double standard. Sometimes it's OK to hold onto a guy for his entire career.

[MrTPlush]

I have very strong feelings on this whole Braun situation so here goes. I just don't get why the majority of fans are not only willing but actually excited at the thought of trading Ryan Braun who is one of the three best hitters in team history in what would pretty much amount to a salary dump. It makes no sense to me to trade a franchise icon for the likes of a malcontent in Puig, a salary dump who is worthless in McCarthy and what will probably be one or two mediocre at best prospects.

 

If some team offers the Brewers elite young talent in return I can understand a Braun trade although I am still against it. With this team having pretty much no players other than Braun and Garza making big money I just don't see why this type of trade would make any sense. The thought of taking on a contract like McCarthy from the Dodgers of all teams to make it more palatable for them to fit Braun into their unlimited budget upsets me and should really bother more fans.

 

It really comes down to this for me; in order to trade Braun the Brewers need to get elite and I stress elite prospects in return or there should be no deal. We already have tons of depth so acquiring some teams 5-15 rated prospects just doesn't do enough for this franchise. If we aren't going to get top young talent we should just let Braun retire in a Brewers uniform like Robin Yount did before him.

 

 

Things always sound rosy in the land of Oz. Funny how a guy like Braun who actually has produced at an elite level in a Brewers uniform for a decade should be pawned off for whatever yet guys like Wily Peralta and Jimmy Nelson who are turned out to be marginal pitchers heaven forbid should have never been (or now) traded while they actually had a bit of value. Baffling to me how it's a double standard. Sometimes it's OK to hold onto a guy for his entire career.

 

Braun is 30+ years old, making $20mil a year, and his value is as high as it will ever go. It is also very possible it declines a lot before we ever hear the word playoffs. Peralta/Nelson are both under the age of 30, cheap, and their value is at rock bottom.

 

Also who said we should pawn Braun off for "whatever"?

[LouisEly]

I think it is a matter of semantics. They way I read MrTPlush's comments it sounded like the opinion was that De Leon was never a part of the deal - either offered or asked for by either side. I find the evidence to strongly suggest the contrary - the circumstantial evidence to me strongly points to De Leon being asked for by the Brewers and the Dodgers strongly considering but balking at the last minute due to situations with their ML starters (Hill's blister, Anderson's setback/blister, McCarthy's setback, and Kazmir also went on the DL at the end of August, Ryu's setback, Kershaw not ready yet, etc.).

 

As for why De Leon wasn't brought up before then, the Dodgers had Kershaw, Maeda, Kazmir, Stripling, Urias, Wood, Hill, McCarthy, Stewart, Anderson, and Ryu, so it's not like they have/had no depth. De Leon was drafted in 2013 so he didn't need to be on the 40-man, and with all of the injuries they had they needed as many 40-man spots as they could get.

[brewcrewdue80]

I am really getting at the whole "The deal was almost done" and "All but a done deal he is traded in the offseason". If these statements are true a major/elite prospect wasn't in play because the Brewers wouldn't lose out on a DeLeon while arguing over a lesser piece. All signs point to a deal nearly being reached without an elite prospect in play. I don't think are suddenly going to change that and a DeLeon type guy appears in talks. I think it is far fetched much like Mendez being the PTBNL in the Lucroy trade. It is possible, but most likely not.

 

You keep believing this notion as if The Brewers are the only team that didnt accept/agree to the trade. Why?

The Brewers have no reason to force a trade at that deadline. The Dodgers though, they have to complete the trade so Braun could be on their playoff roster.

Logically to me, the Dodgers were asked to give up Urias or DeLeon and under their pitching situation with the injuries and Urias already exceeding the original Innings limit, couldnt agree to it. Deleon was called up to start after the deadline, winning his first two starts. Big wins at the time for the Division Race.

They needed a SP more at that moment than Braun's bat.

 

Negotiations can go, I'll give you this for that....Ok. And then back out of the agreement.

[Greenleaf1]

For what it's worth, Braun confirmed after the game yesterday that he was "very close" to getting traded, so that secondary report that said a deal wasn't that close seems to be inaccurate.

 

Braun also said he thought it was unlikely he'd be traded this offseason but that it was more likely than it has been at any other time in his career. I feel like, same as Attanasio, anything they talk about in the past you can accept that they probably don't have reason to lie, but anything in the future they are probably just hedging.

 

Still think a deal with the Dodgers comes together before the calendar turns to 2017.

[FVBrewerFan]

We're all trying to parse words. Trying to take meaning from anything Mark A., Braun, or press reports say about a possible trade. Bottom line, we don't know, because even the Brewers and Dodgers don't know.

 

Obviously there is interest from both sides, but a lot of pieces need to fall into place to complete the trade. We can all think or "feel" it will be done, but in reality we have no idea.

[brwrsfan]

A lot of it could also hinge on the Dodgers post season performance. If Puig tears it up and they win a WS...they may feel they don't need to go out and get someone like Braun.

 

if they really struggle and get bounced early, then maybe they want him more.

 

Just have to let it play out. Hopefully the Brewers do the right thing and don't move him just for the sake of making the trade. We can certainly afford Braun and if he keeps playing like he has, he'll hold value as his deal nears a completion.

[pacopete4]

It'd be great to see the Dodgers slump in the playoffs. Might up the return.

[LouisEly]

It'd be great to see the Dodgers slump in the playoffs. Might up the return.

That might mean losing to the Cubs though, and I want no part of that.

[MrTPlush]

If Puig tears it up and they win a WS...they may feel they don't need to go out and get someone like Braun.

 

Problem is they don't want Puig. They just can't stand him anymore. If Puig tears it up and they win the World Series they will be thrilled with Puig boosting his stock.

[HighHeat19]

If Puig tears it up and they win a WS...they may feel they don't need to go out and get someone like Braun.

 

Problem is they don't want Puig. They just can't stand him anymore. If Puig tears it up and they win the World Series they will be thrilled with Puig boosting his stock.

 

He won't boost his stock in D.S. view. D.S. does not buy high.

[BrewBalls]

I'm all for trading Braun and Thornburg for Puig, McCarthy and some combination of De Leon/Bellinger, Sheffield/Barnes/Lux and a couple of lower level lottery tickets. The hope is Puig and McCarthy can produce early next season so Stearns can flip them for more prospects and continue to stockpile our farm system.

[jackailius]

I was actually contemplating the same thing last night Brewball. Trying to figure out a good return. I kind of have a hunch that the Dodgers will trade Puig to another team first and then come to the Brewers to make a trade for Braun/Thornburg. I get the feeling that at the time he was included it was a way to clear dead money but I think going into the winter Puig will have regained some of his value and will return the Dodgers at least a decent prospect from another team. From the Brewers standpoint I think they view Puig much lower than some other clubs will because we aren't at the point of contention and would only take him on as a reclamation project but some of the question marks have already been answered since being called back up by the dodgers. I do think DS will look to bring back a bad contract or larger contract to get better prospects from the Dodgers and look to build that players value back up to flip like he did with Hill. McCarthy is a good bet but I think the Dodgers may look to shed even more so they can fill there other holes while getting under the luxury tax threshold, or at least get a lot closer to it.

[pacopete4]

I don't think we should trade Thornburg this early. If he puts up another half season of the way he is pitching right now, he will be worth much more. I'd let it ride.

[BrewBalls]

I was actually contemplating the same thing last night Brewball. Trying to figure out a good return. I kind of have a hunch that the Dodgers will trade Puig to another team first and then come to the Brewers to make a trade for Braun/Thornburg. I get the feeling that at the time he was included it was a way to clear dead money but I think going into the winter Puig will have regained some of his value and will return the Dodgers at least a decent prospect from another team. From the Brewers standpoint I think they view Puig much lower than some other clubs will because we aren't at the point of contention and would only take him on as a reclamation project but some of the question marks have already been answered since being called back up by the dodgers. I do think DS will look to bring back a bad contract or larger contract to get better prospects from the Dodgers and look to build that players value back up to flip like he did with Hill. McCarthy is a good bet but I think the Dodgers may look to shed even more so they can fill there other holes while getting under the luxury tax threshold, or at least get a lot closer to it.

I would be willing to trade Braun and Thornburg for McCarthy, Ethier ($17.5MM in 2017 with a $2.5MM buyout in 2018), DeLeon, Sheffield and Barnes. This frees up $15MM in payroll space since Braun only earns $18MM next season ($4MM is deferred) while Ethier and McCarthy count for $29MM combined.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm all for trading Braun and Thornburg for Puig, McCarthy and some combination of De Leon/Bellinger, Sheffield/Barnes/Lux and a couple of lower level lottery tickets. The hope is Puig and McCarthy can produce early next season so Stearns can flip them for more prospects and continue to stockpile our farm system.

 

Sheffield and Lux couldn't be options at the time of previous talks. They will be after the World Series. Barnes I have no reason to want with the Catcher glut we have.

 

Bellinger would be a great addition, but Adrian Gonzalez has only 2years left on his contract and his bat took a decline. Which makes a Braun Bat all that more welcome to the Dodgers. But figure Bellinger is in AAA all next season and plays if/when needed due to injury. Makes De Leon all the more expect in the Braun Trade.

[JosephC]

I was actually contemplating the same thing last night Brewball. Trying to figure out a good return. I kind of have a hunch that the Dodgers will trade Puig to another team first and then come to the Brewers to make a trade for Braun/Thornburg. I get the feeling that at the time he was included it was a way to clear dead money but I think going into the winter Puig will have regained some of his value and will return the Dodgers at least a decent prospect from another team. From the Brewers standpoint I think they view Puig much lower than some other clubs will because we aren't at the point of contention and would only take him on as a reclamation project but some of the question marks have already been answered since being called back up by the dodgers. I do think DS will look to bring back a bad contract or larger contract to get better prospects from the Dodgers and look to build that players value back up to flip like he did with Hill. McCarthy is a good bet but I think the Dodgers may look to shed even more so they can fill there other holes while getting under the luxury tax threshold, or at least get a lot closer to it.

I would be willing to trade Braun and Thornburg for McCarthy, Ethier ($17.5MM in 2017 with a $2.5MM buyout in 2018), DeLeon, Sheffield and Barnes. This frees up $15MM in payroll space since Braun only earns $18MM next season ($4MM is deferred) while Ethier and McCarthy count for $29MM combined.

 

Ethier has 10/5 rights. The only way he'd waive those rights is if Milwaukee guaranteed that full 2018 salary (17.5 million) which likely kills his inclusion in any trade with the Brewers.

[LouisEly]

Ethier only has about 9.2 years of service time. He's like Braun in that he will become a 10/5 player some time next season, making it all the more imperative to move them this offseason.