What could Braun bring from the Dodgers?

[MrTPlush]

You can attempt to reframe your position to a general stance all you want but you still can't answer the question. Who are these "many teams" with these "big time players" LA could acquire that would prevent Braun from becoming a Dodger?

 

Who knows!! The offseason hasn't even started. Who knows what players are going to become available. Maybe the Dodgers change their mind and don't want an injury prone 30+ year old. Maybe the Dodgers refuse to up their offer from August. Very possible.

[Austin Tatious]

From the same article as the above post:

 

"Ah. If the Brewers want nothing but prospects for Braun, they’re not going to get them from the Giants, at least not top quality ones."

 

 

So basically, middle reliever Will Smith had FAR more trade value than Braun currently does.

 

Understandably hard for Brewer fans to accept regarding their "franchise" player's actual trade value, but none-the-less true.

 

No, the point is that the Giants do not have the prospects it would take to get Braun. Of course, they'd love to have him in their lineup in a win-now mode.

[pacopete4]

So the Dodgers don't acquire a cheap and controllable star player?

 

Not one person is saying Braun is cheap. But many are saying he is either at or below market for what he offers you as a player. $15-20 million is never cheap, but I think you get that.

 

Why wouldn't any team competing with the Dodgers claim him? Teams do it all the time to block other teams.

Also why wouldn't a team who wants him just try to get him? Maybe once the offer is ticking down for 48 hours they decide $80mil in the bank sounds great and they cut him lose for nothing but salary relief.

Teams are well aware, because it has been stated by our GM many times, that we are not going to just give up Braun for nothing. But that it will take substantial value to get him. They know the Brewers have no reason to drop Braun for nothing because it will do more harm than good for their franchise. Silly that this has to even be said.

 

 

Why wouldn't any team competing with the Dodgers claim him? Teams do it all the time to block other teams.

 

If a team wanted Braun for just his contract or very little other than that they WOULD have claimed Braun. Why would you not try if you wanted him? If a GM doesn't claim a player because he figured such player will be pulled back that GM is a complete idiot. You don't go about things like that. There is zero risk or penalty for claiming a player and not making a deal.

 

But on the flip side, GM's are not going to play poker with $80 million dollars at stake. Say the Marlins, Dbacks or whoever, do claim him and now they are on the hook for $80 mil and no real reason to have him on their teams. So again, while his contract is cheap for the player he is, it's not cheap to some franchises. Even a team like St. Louis would have to move some players around to make it work for them.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Brew4U...You claim Braun is such a great player with an under market value contract.

 

Then you claim teams wouldn't claim him and risk having being "on the hook" for his $80 mil with "no real reason to have him on their teams."

 

This is a contradiction.

 

If Braun had trade value, why wouldn't they want him?

 

By your view, they could simply trade him for a valuable (prospect) return.

 

Makes no sense.

 

On top of that, you are advocating that the Brewers are better off keeping Braun and remain "on the hook" for his $80 mil, even though other clubs really have "no reason to have him on their teams."

 

Some flawed logic there.

[MrTPlush]

But on the flip side, GM's are not going to play poker with $80 million dollars at stake. Say the Marlins, Dbacks or whoever, do claim him and now they are on the hook for $80 mil and no real reason to have him on their teams. So again, while his contract is cheap for the player he is, it's not cheap to some franchises. Even a team like St. Louis would have to move some players around to make it work for them.

 

I thought there was no chance we would let him go for salary relief and it was so obvious no one would even attempt to claim him?

 

hmm...can't have both. If it is that obvious and there is no chance there is no poker or no concern he will be dumped on you.

 

Not one person is saying Braun is cheap. But many are saying he is either at or below market for what he offers you as a player. $15-20 million is never cheap, but I think you get that.

 

No Braun at $15mil is pretty dang cheap. Honestly $15mil is pretty cheap in general as mid rotation guys get that. Hence why the Dodgers would give up Puig plus more to get him. Even though the D Backs or other teams may not be competing this year they might try next year(D Backs for sure). If I was the D Backs I would block the Dodgers from having a chance at Braun every chance I get. You are right it may just delay the trade till the winter or maybe another team swoops in and steals Braun away this winter or the Brewers hold onto him. Mission accomplished for the D Backs right?

 

The thing is no one wants Braun or they don't want Braun for $20mil a year. Surely not because they thought the Brewers wouldn't let him go for nothing. That is not a reason to not put in a claim. Neither is being on his no-trade list. If that was the case why did the Indians try to trade for Lucroy? Why did the Braves try to get Braun? How did we get K-Rod?

[brewerfan82]

Brew4U...You claim Braun is such a great player with an under market value contract.

 

Then you claim teams wouldn't claim him and risk having being "on the hook" for his $80 mil with "no real reason to have him on their teams."

 

This is a contradiction.

Not necessarily. Braun can be market value (or even better) and worth his contract, but if a team's budget doesn't have room to add $20m per year, then they can't risk claiming him and the Brewers handing him over at full price. For instance, I can think a vacation in a raffle is worth $10,000, but that doesn't mean I can place a bid for that and risk actually winning it if I don't actually have the money to pay for it.

 

I would venture to believe most teams have a budget for the year and leave some wiggle room for in season acquisitions, but $20mil (or even $10 mil for half a season) may take a lot of teams out of the running.

 

That said, once Braun passed through waivers, a team like the Dodgers were able to then send Puig through waivers and have the possibility of working out a trade that would help offset those costs. That may not have been possible for them if they had claimed Braun outright when he was first put through the waiver process, thus ending any chance of obtaining him at all.

[MrTPlush]

Not necessarily. Braun can be market value (or even better) and worth his contract, but if a team's budget doesn't have room to add $20m per year, then they can't risk claiming him and the Brewers handing him over at full price. For instance, I can think a vacation in a raffle is worth $10,000, but that doesn't mean I can place a bid for that and risk actually winning it if I don't actually have the money to pay for it.

 

Brew4U said there was no chance to get him for just his contract and every team knew this. That means there is no risk for claiming him. So while what you are saying is true, for the argument he was replying to it doesn't apply.

[adambr2]

Braun is a pretty unique case, and I think his value is tough to pin down. Do I think he would do better than 4/76 if he were a free agent now? Probably, but the market is really hard to predict. Plenty of guys have turned down good offers from their teams to test the market only to come crawling back when the market didn't respond.

 

A case can be made for Braun having a lot of value, and yet at the same time he's got a few unique factors working against him.

 

In the end, I think he'll be traded, and if Puig indeed comes to the Brewers, I stand by my belief that he'll be the main piece, and any other prospects included will be lower level, perhaps one very low top 100 at best.

[pacopete4]

Not necessarily. Braun can be market value (or even better) and worth his contract, but if a team's budget doesn't have room to add $20m per year, then they can't risk claiming him and the Brewers handing him over at full price. For instance, I can think a vacation in a raffle is worth $10,000, but that doesn't mean I can place a bid for that and risk actually winning it if I don't actually have the money to pay for it.

 

Brew4U said there was no chance to get him for just his contract and every team knew this. That means there is no risk for claiming him. So while what you are saying is true, for the argument he was replying to it doesn't apply.

 

 

There's always a chance. Which is why team stay away from making claims in players with high salaries. That was my point with the poker statement. No ones going to risk it unless they have a spot for him on a competing team and have the money laying around for the next 5-6 years to pay him. They're not just going to block teams. It's not a guy making 500k.

[Austin Tatious]

Adam McCalvy was on the post-game show on WSSP last night. They talked Braun-Puig. "They came very, very, very close to trading him" (and that can be revisited).

 

McCalvy said that the prospects were "prospects. prospects...legit."

 

I do not know how to italicize, but if you heard it, he emphasized prospects the second time, and then said "legit."

 

McCalvy is assuring us here. He said it with authority. He probably knows who was discussed under secrecy and he's telling us they are legit prospects, without giving away the names.

[MrTPlush]

I remember this one time everyone said we were getting a prospect similar Brinson/Ortiz and we ended up with some guy with the last name Cordell.

 

Grain of salt to McCalvy's comment.

[adambr2]

That's great. ..'legit ' prospects is a very broad definition, though, as I think we learned in the Lucroy trade. The PTBNL was described as on the level of Brinson and Ortiz, which I think led many to be disappointed when it was Ryan Cordell.

 

So while I think legit prospects could mean about anything, not necessarily top 100 guys, it makes me excited about the possibilities and I'd love to be wrong about DeLeon being on the table.

[MrTPlush]

I'd love to be wrong about DeLeon being on the table.

 

If De Leon was on the table and we didn't make the trade..................

[adambr2]

Most likely would not be anyone who was on the 40 man roster at the time, since they would have to clear waivers. DeLeon wasn't at the time, but obviously Urias was, not that he would have ever been in the discussion.

[pacopete4]

Would the Dodgers have any interest in Scooter Gennett? Utely will be 38 this December and Scooter could give them very comparable offensive numbers at second base. Could this be an add in that helps bring back higher quality prospects?

[sveumrules]

I remember this one time everyone said we were getting a prospect similar Brinson/Ortiz and we ended up with some guy with the last name Cordell.

 

Grain of salt to McCalvy's comment.

 

Anyone who thought we were getting a prospect similar to Brinson/Ortiz as the PTBNL missed taking their grain of salt somewhere along the line as there were no prospects left in the TEX system who were similar to Brinson/Ortiz.

[MrTPlush]

Not necessarily. Braun can be market value (or even better) and worth his contract, but if a team's budget doesn't have room to add $20m per year, then they can't risk claiming him and the Brewers handing him over at full price. For instance, I can think a vacation in a raffle is worth $10,000, but that doesn't mean I can place a bid for that and risk actually winning it if I don't actually have the money to pay for it.

 

Brew4U said there was no chance to get him for just his contract and every team knew this. That means there is no risk for claiming him. So while what you are saying is true, for the argument he was replying to it doesn't apply.

 

 

There's always a chance. Which is why team stay away from making claims in players with high salaries. That was my point with the poker statement. No ones going to risk it unless they have a spot for him on a competing team and have the money laying around for the next 5-6 years to pay him. They're not just going to block teams. It's not a guy making 500k.

 

Alright so first is was as simple as "There is no chance the Brewers would give him away for nothing so teams wouldn't even bother claiming him." and now there is a chance so that is why no team claimed him.

 

I am glad you have backed away from your original reason to something more logical.

[adambr2]

I remember this one time everyone said we were getting a prospect similar Brinson/Ortiz and we ended up with some guy with the last name Cordell.

 

Grain of salt to McCalvy's comment.

 

Anyone who thought we were getting a prospect similar to Brinson/Ortiz as the PTBNL missed taking their grain of salt somewhere along the line as there were no prospects left in the TEX system who were similar to Brinson/Ortiz.

 

Mendez was right there.

[MrTPlush]

I remember this one time everyone said we were getting a prospect similar Brinson/Ortiz and we ended up with some guy with the last name Cordell.

 

Grain of salt to McCalvy's comment.

 

Anyone who thought we were getting a prospect similar to Brinson/Ortiz as the PTBNL missed taking their grain of salt somewhere along the line as there were no prospects left in the TEX system who were similar to Brinson/Ortiz.

 

Doesn't matter. Cordell isn't even in the same dimension as Brinson/Ortiz. Being wrong is fine, but those reports about the PTBNL were a load of BS and not even close.

[pacopete4]

Alright so first is was as simple as "There is no chance the Brewers would give him away for nothing so teams wouldn't even bother claiming him." and now there is a chance so that is why no team claimed him.

 

I am glad you have backed away from your original reason to something more logical.

 

I was trying to state that there is multiple ways teams see the Braun situation. Probably did a poor job explaining myself but that it's not as simple as no one wants Braun. Lots of teams do. But there are lots of teams not in the position to go get him whether it be because lack or resources or a lack of places to play him it just has to be the perfect fit for a guy with $80 on the books. The Dodgers seem to be that team (right now) but who knows come this off season depending on what Puig does for the remainder of the season for them.

[MrTPlush]

Alright so first is was as simple as "There is no chance the Brewers would give him away for nothing so teams wouldn't even bother claiming him." and now there is a chance so that is why no team claimed him.

 

I am glad you have backed away from your original reason to something more logical.

 

I was trying to state that there is multiple ways teams see the Braun situation. Probably did a poor job explaining myself but that it's not as simple as no one wants Braun. Lots of teams do. But there are lots of teams not in the position to go get him whether it be because lack or resources or a lack of places to play him it just has to be the perfect fit for a guy with $80 on the books. The Dodgers seem to be that team (right now) but who knows come this off season depending on what Puig does for the remainder of the season for them.

 

Really simply put there is hurdle after hurdle to jump over to get a deal done. By the time every team tries to jump over each hurdle there are maybe 2-3 that can realistically pull off a trade. Money is a problem for some, no trade clause for some, age some, contract length some, and not a fit for some, price to high for some.

 

At face value I am sure every team would love Braun. Maybe some teams would want him at $80mil, but prefer to get him for less so don't put in a claim. Maybe? Maybe. I can't imagine there are many that do want him for $80mil though. Braves I guess did want him for salary dump purposes so maybe they didn't bother for a claim because Braun already said no to them. Maybe there were other teams he specifically said no to.

 

Regardless to me it seems like Dodgers or bust. Possible someone else could make a play but I doubt it.

[pacopete4]

Would the Dodgers have any interest in Scooter Gennett? Utely will be 38 this December and Scooter could give them very comparable offensive numbers at second base. Could this be an add in that helps bring back higher quality prospects?

 

I'd love to see the Brewers get creative with the Dodgers and obtain De Leon and Bellinger. This competitive window could open up sooner if we do.

 

Dodgers Get:

-Ryan Braun

-Scooter Gennett

-Lottery Ticket (Trey Supak/Brandon Woodruff ect...)

 

Brewers Get:

Yasiel Puig

Brandon McCarthy

Jose De Leon

Cody Bellinger

 

I would even consider two lottery picks if those two prospects were coming back to Milwaukee.

[splitterpfj]

A few things ....

 

If Braun hit the free agent market this winter, yes, I believe he would get 4/80 - maybe even more dollars, but that's not at all relevant, because he isn't a free agent. In this case, he has only a few teams he can be traded to without his approval, which affects what the Brewers can ask for, and also, free agency is strictly about dollars, a trade is about dollars, and prospects.

 

Would Braun get 4/80, and a strong package of prospects shipped out as a free agent - that is a much different question, and it is the question being asked in a trade scenario.

 

Yasiel Puig - is he being seen as the centerpiece in this trade, or is viewed more like a prospect, because the talent is obvious, but so are the issues? I have no idea.

 

How high are the Dodgers willing to go on their prospect list to make this trade? I have no idea, and unless one of the GMs involved called you to fill you in, I'm not sure how anyone else can act so certain about what is and what is not.

 

The Giants can't get Braun strictly for prospects, because the Giants don't have the prospects on hand to get it done, which has nothing to do with Braun's trade value somehow slipping - the Giants have a weak farm system right now, they cannot match Braun's value in a trade, unless thy include current MLB players in their offer. This essentially eliminates San Francisco as a trade partner.

 

The Marlins and the Angels - see San Francisco, repeat the answer.

 

The Padres - first of all, they're rebuilding, and honestly - would you want to make a trade with that franchise right now? They just got busted for hiding medical information when making trades. Forget it.

 

The Diamondbacks - you never know what that front office will do, I won't completely cross them off, but they've already dealt most of the guys anyone would have asked for.

 

The Dodgers - A deep farm system, a need for exactly what Braun is, a weak free agent year, which limits their ability to simply spend for talent, and a trade partner in Milwaukee who is willing to balance money in order to get the deal done.

 

Does this deal include two of the Dodgers' top five prospects - probably not. Does this deal include one of the Dodgers' top five prospects - it certainly might. Do the Dodgers have some outstanding prospects who are currently listed well below their top five - yes, absolutely.

 

Milwaukee isn't going to dump Braun - they've made that clear. Milwaukee has no need to dump Braun - he's still an excellent player, and the Brewers can easily afford his contract.

 

1. The Brewers and Dodgers make this obvious match, OR -

2. Braun adds more teams to his "OK list" and he's traded somewhere else, OR -

3. Braun stays right here

 

At this point, I absolutely, positively believe it's LA, I've said it many times now, and the quality of the two prospects will tell us how Puig was valued in the deal.

[Greenleaf1]

Brandon Woodruff just led the minor leagues in strikeouts, throws 95-96 regularly, and is probably headed for AAA next year. How the hell is he a lottery ticket?

 

Dodgers aren't likely to give up their top 2 prospects for anyone. I don't think there was a single deal this year where a team gave up their top 2 prospects for anyone, let alone 2 as highly regarded as Bellinger/De Leon.

 

Scooter has value for a team that's looking to kick the can down the road a few years to their next 2B prospect being ready, or if they want to spend money elsewhere and are content with a below average 2B with the potential to be an average 2B for relatively little cost for a few years.

 

I think Braun/Gennett should be enough to yield Puig/McCarthy/De Leon/one other middle prospect, but I don't see the Dodgers giving up two near sure things (De Leon/Bellinger) for an aging, relatively high priced slugger and a below average 2nd basemen, even if you threw in another reasonable prospect (NOT Woodruff, we're not letting our minor league pitcher of the year go during a rebuild).

 

Braun for McCarthy/Bellinger and that's it? Maybe. But Puig/McCarthy do add value for the Brewers even during a rebuild, so the Dodgers aren't likely to pile on top prospects.

 

I think a more than fair trade to both sides would be Braun/Gennett for Puig/McCarthy/De Leon/some #10-#20 prospect (not that familiar with the Dodgers lower prospects).

[A Swing and A Drive]

Would the Dodgers have any interest in Scooter Gennett? Utely will be 38 this December and Scooter could give them very comparable offensive numbers at second base. Could this be an add in that helps bring back higher quality prospects?

 

I'd love to see the Brewers get creative with the Dodgers and obtain De Leon and Bellinger. This competitive window could open up sooner if we do.

 

Dodgers Get:

-Ryan Braun

-Scooter Gennett

-Lottery Ticket (Trey Supak/Brandon Woodruff ect...)

 

Brewers Get:

Yasiel Puig

Brandon McCarthy

Jose De Leon

Cody Bellinger

 

I would even consider two lottery picks if those two prospects were coming back to Milwaukee.

 

I get it that I'm posting on a Brewers "fan" forum, but this is vastly over valuing Braun and Scooter. However, Brandon Woodruff has turned himself into a borderline Top 100-200 MLB prospect so I'd consider him more than a lottery ticket.

 

But again, the Dodgers will hold all the leverage in a trade for Braun, so they simply won't have to give up their top prospect in a deal for him, let alone their top two.

 

I do agree with Splitter above stating that the Dodgers have some outstanding prospects in their 5-20 organizational rankings.

 

As a Brewer fan, I'm not focusing so much on De Leon or Bellinger, but am excited with the possibility of Sterns getting and hitting on a couple of these "2nd tier" prospects in their organization in a proposed Dodgers deal. RHPs Walker Buehler and Brock Stewart are two arms I very much like, personally.