2016-08-21 Brewers (Garza) at Mariners (Miranda), 3:10 PM CDT [Brewers win, 7-6 on 4-run 9th; birthday present for Counsell]

[1992casey]

[igt-2012][game-setup][logo]http://forum.brewerfan.net/igt/2016-logos/brewers1.png[/logo][game-info][h1]August 21 | 3:10 P.M.[/h1][h2]Brewers (52-70) | Mariners (66-56)[/h2][h3]FSWI | WTMJ 620[/h3][/game-info][logo]http://forum.brewerfan.net/igt/2016-logos/mariners.png[/logo][/game-setup][pitching-photos]http://forum.brewerfan.net/igt/2016-pitcher-photos/brewers/brewers_garza-matt-04.jpghttp://forum.brewerfan.net/igt/2016-pitcher-photos/opponents/mariners_miranda-ariel-02.jpg[/pitching-photos][game-matchup][divclass=away][pitcher]Matt Garza[/pitcher][h2]4-5, 4.87 ERA, 1.55 WHIP[/h2][h3]Versus Mariners | Game Log[/h3][h3]Garza has been pitching more effectively after a rocky and injury-delayed start to his season. He hasn’t given up more than three runs in any of his last five outings and has a 3.49 ERA in that span. This will be his fourth start at Safeco Field.[/h3][/divclass][divclass=home][pitcher]Ariel Miranda[/pitcher][h2]1-0, 4.50 ERA, 1.50 WHIP[/h2][h3]Game Log[/h3][h3]The 27-year-old Cuban has started twice and pitched once in relief since being acquired from the Orioles for Wade Miley. As a Mariner, Miranda is 1-0 with a 4.50 ERA. On Tuesday vs. the Angels, he turned in a five-plus inning no-decision, giving up three runs and three hits.[/h3][/divclass][starting-lineup][divclass=away]

1. 3B Jonathan Villar (S)
   
2. CF Keon Broxton ®
   
3. DH Ryan Braun ®
   
4. 2B Hernan Perez ®
   
5. 1B Chris Carter ®
   
6. RF Domingo Santana ®
   
7. C Manny Pina ®
   
8. SS Orlando Arcia ®
   
9. LF Jake Elmore ®

[/divclass][divclass=home]

1. LF Norichika Aoki (L)
   
2. RF Seth Smith (L)
   
3. 2B Robinson Cano (L)
   
4. DH Nelson Cruz ®
   
5. 3B Kyle Seager (L)
   
6. 1B Adam Lind (L)
   
7. C Chris Iannetta ®
   
8. CF Leonys Martin (L)
   
9. SS Ketel Marte (S)

[/divclass][/starting-lineup][/game-matchup][game-links][h3][chat]BrewerFan Chat[/chat] | MLB Gameday[/h3][/game-links][/igt-2012]

[Boomer5]

Anyone know if Garza was placed on and passed thru waivers? He's done enough to warrant an August trade.

[1992casey]

We never hear officially about waivers because they're not announced. Sometimes, reporters get their hands on names, though. I'd assume that Garza cleared.

[adambr2]

Yeah occasionally, names will leak, mlbtraderumors.com is usually on top of it. I think when we had Lohse it was leaked that he had cleared.

 

But yeah, like Casey said I'm sure Garza has cleared. I'm sure we put most our guys on waivers, but it's possible we are waiting til the end of the month for guys that we want to try to at least get a contender to claim, like Torres.

 

I'm a little surprised we haven't heard anything on Nieuwenhuis, who could have value to a contender and is dirt cheap, but we have little use for him. Still some time left though.

 

It would be kind of fun if the complete list of waiver placements, claims, and pullbacks were publicly available, but I'm sure there's good reasons that it isn't.

[adambr2]

Garza is an epically bad fielder.

[markedman5]

Anyone know if Garza was placed on and passed thru waivers? He's done enough to warrant an August trade.

 

If he had done enough he would be gone. Nobody is claiming him and the Brewers would surely dump him for next to nothing.

[adambr2]

Anyone know if Garza was placed on and passed thru waivers? He's done enough to warrant an August trade.

 

If he had done enough he would be gone. Nobody is claiming him and the Brewers would surely dump him for next to nothing.

 

Mostly agreed. He has an ERA near 5, he had a 5.63 ERA last year, and he's been hurt. Oh, and he's expensive. There are more attractive options for contenders.

 

Not saying he's untradeable, but any conversation about trading him is going to involve the words, 'This is how much cash you'll have to send us,' and 'This is the filler non-prospect journeyman minor leaguer that we'll send you.'

[markedman5]

Well he got through 3 2/3 today. I'm sure Stearn's phone will be lighting up!

[adambr2]

Great 9th inning rally today. Garza very undeservingly off the hook.

[1992casey]

Everyone else deserved to win, though.

[markedman5]

How about Broxton?

 

Man has he turned his season around

[adambr2]

I'm trying to remain grounded on Broxton, but it's hard not to be excited. If his ceiling is Carlos Gomez, that would be amazing. Even if it's 'just' Lorenzo Cain, that would be great.

[Baldkin]

How about Broxton?

 

Man has he turned his season around

 

You mean after he was the worst player ever after 40PAs?

[LouisEly]

Garza deservedly is off the hook. Gave up all of one extra base hit, a weak fly ball that was barely fair that a decent, experienced LF would probably have caught. Then gave up five ground balls; yes, he made an error on one of them, but you should not give up three runs on a fly ball and five ground balls. Garza gave up two line drive hits - the singles to open up the fourth. Then he got a K, gave up a walk, then got three more ground balls. The problem is that the ground balls were hit where guys weren't. He should have given up two runs, maybe three at most.

[adambr2]

Garza deservedly is off the hook. Gave up all of one extra base hit, a weak fly ball that was barely fair that a decent, experienced LF would probably have caught. Then gave up five ground balls; yes, he made an error on one of them, but you should not give up three runs on a fly ball and five ground balls. Garza gave up two line drive hits - the singles to open up the fourth. Then he got a K, gave up a walk, then got three more ground balls. The problem is that the ground balls were hit where guys weren't. He should have given up two runs, maybe three at most.

 

I know you are a Garza apologist, but even to try to argue that a guy who should have given up 3 runs while committing an error, giving up 'only' two hard hit hits in just 3 2/3rds , didn't deserve to lose the game, is on a whole different level. This also ignores the fact that Marinez stranded 2 inherited runners from Garza, so Garza actually could have easily given up 7 or even 8 runs.

 

Yes, if we have absolutely zero expectations of Garza compared to any replacement level call-up, he did fine.

[superfly]

Garza deservedly is off the hook. Gave up all of one extra base hit, a weak fly ball that was barely fair that a decent, experienced LF would probably have caught. Then gave up five ground balls; yes, he made an error on one of them, but you should not give up three runs on a fly ball and five ground balls. Garza gave up two line drive hits - the singles to open up the fourth. Then he got a K, gave up a walk, then got three more ground balls. The problem is that the ground balls were hit where guys weren't. He should have given up two runs, maybe three at most.

 

I know you are a Garza apologist, but even to try to argue that a guy who should have given up 3 runs while committing an error, giving up 'only' two hard hit hits in just 3 2/3rds , didn't deserve to lose the game, is on a whole different level. This also ignores the fact that Marinez stranded 2 inherited runners from Garza, so Garza actually could have easily given up 7 or even 8 runs.

 

Yes, if we have absolutely zero expectations of Garza compared to any replacement level call-up, he did fine.

 

The line says he gave up 5 runs, so he gave up 5 runs. Don't become one of those hockey apologists who say "X played better than it looks and deserved to win."

[yfinn6]

Hockey apologists? Didn't know that type of reasoning was specific to hockey, as I've heard it used by fans during any sporting event.

[LouisEly]

Garza's LD% this year is 18.1%, below his career average of 19.9%, and his GB% this year is 53.9%, well above his career average of 42.5%, and his FB% is 28%, well below his career average of 37.6%. Among starting pitchers the league average LD% this year is 20.9% and GB% is 44.6%. His LOB% is 63.6%, below his career average of 71.1%; league average LOB% for starters this year is 72%. With a BABIP of .317 (league average .297 for starters), the numbers suggest he has been pitching better than his results. The eye test says it too.

[jerichoholicninja]

I've only got to watch a few of Garza's starts this year and while I don't think he's pitching great I don't really see him pitching as bad as everyone makes it out to be. His velocity hasn't dropped all that much and most of his pitches were down yesterday. Ultimately, yes, you're going to be judged on the runs you give up but he is no where near a Wolf, Suppan, or Lohse-esque disaster.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Arguing about exactly *how bad* Garza has been seems to be the absolute definition of one of those "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" type things. He's been sub-par. The Brewers suck. He's got one year left on a bad contract. There's no way the Brewers can trade him. Why in the world would it matter if he's been "bad" "sorta bad" or "really bad"?