Scooter Gennett's trade value

[MKE81]

Scooter is pretty mediocre at both hitting and fielding. Not sure I would describe either his bat or glove as being better than the other.

 

I would rate Scooter's bat better than his defense far better than his defense actually. Not that it is great or anything but he is better offensively than he is defensively. Yes I know what the advanced stats say about his offense and his defense but he is far worse defensively than his advanced stats say he is.

 

I still think the Angels were the best shot and I thought a Cowart for Gennett deal would be fair for both the Brewers and the Angels but it looks like they are valuing defense here at 2B.

 

He's about average defensively. Turns the double play fine other than a couple instances where he took foot off too quick. Decent range and accurate arm. Much, much better than Weeks.

 

How quickly you forget all the times Weeks' bad throws cost them easy double plays. Almost never happens with Scooter.

Scooter this year defensively was what you saw from Weeks during his normal years (.975 FP). Scooter is slightly better at fielding the ball but Weeks has greater range and a stronger arm. Scooter is slightly more accurate. And no, Scooter doesn't turn DPs just fine. His footwork is terrible and he has a below average arm. If felt like 3x per week there should have been an easy DP turned but it wasn't. Arcia/Villar will turn everything unless a burner is running with the ball not hit directly at someone. Scooter's bat and defense are relatively the same - below averave to average. Some might view his bat slightly better and I can somewhat see that argument. But he's not much, much better than Weeks defensively. People have a certain disdain for Weeks and it clouds their judgement when comparing to other players. They each do things better than the other but overall their pretty similar on defense.

[brewmann04]

Howie was just traded to the Phillies

[reillymcshane]

I just look at Scooter and wonder what team really would want him. The majority of teams are set at 2B. A rebuilding team isn't likely going to want him as he doesn't have much upside. He's arby eligible so he's going to get more expensive, which might be more important to some teams than others. But he certainly won't be a ton of money.

 

I guess look at the list below and see where Scooter fits. Maybe the Dodgers if they don't sign someone. Angels work as well. Perhaps Oakland or the Mets.

The lack of versatility really limits him. Obviously, teams could shift someone (such as Segura moving back to SS).

 

BAL - Schoop - 2.1 WAR

BOS - Pedroia - 5.6

NYY - Castro - 1.3

TOR - Travis - 2.9

TAM - Forsythe - 3.4

 

DET - Kinsler - 6.1

CLE - Kipnis - 4.1

MIN - Dozier - 6.5

CWS - Lawrie - 1.3 / Saladino - 1.8

KCR - Merrifield - 1.8

 

SEA - Cano - 7.3

HOU - Altuve - 7.7

TEX - Odor - 2.4

OAK - Lowrie - (-0.4)

LAA - Giavotella - 0.5

 

WAS - Murphy - 4.6

PHI - Hernandez - 3.3

MIA - Gordon - 0.8 / Dietrich 2.4

NYM -

ATL - Peterson - 0.4

 

PIT - Harrison - 1.8

CHC - Zobrist - 3.8

STL - Wong - 1.5 / Gyorko 2.9

MIL - Scooter - 0.9

CIN - Phillips - 0.8

 

COL - LeMahieu - 5.2

LAD -

SFG - Panik - 1.1

SDP - Schimpf - 1.8

ARZ - Segura - 5.7

 

FAs - Neil Walker - 2.4, Utley 2.0

[brewcrewdue80]

Based on the above. I have to say his trade value is the Waiver Wire.

 

But this is right. I've said for awhile now, SSs are no longer bad position. It's not 2 or 3 good ones and Yuniesky Betancourt becomes your eh, avg if he has a High BABIP.

The flood of SSs have become, find a place for them which naturally is 2b. Maybe this is an effect from Steriods being removed from baseball. Guys didn't bulk up to be 3b/1b or Corner OFs who can hit 40HRs on an average year. We switched to lean and athletic/quick and fast. That suits the the Middle Infield and CF. Someone posted a bit ago about 20/20 ML CFs and why kinda the diss on Brinson if he's a Floor of that type. Keon Broxton if given 600ABs would have been something like a 20/45. Brett Phillips is a 20/20 with a cannon arm. There are 9 current CF MLeaguers with 20/20 and better if given 600ABs. And there are another 10 or more hitting the Majors within the next 3years. We have Broxton, Phillips, drafted Corey Ray who I hope reaches 20/20, well even just makes it to the Majors. So to add Brinson who falls right in line with that type wasn't appealing.

 

Remember, Scooter's year included Numbers from the LHP's side, that he'd never achieved before. Batting essentially the same as vs RHP. But he'd never been close before. Regression on his numbers are huge. His value has just become the one that. When your #1 2b goes down for the year, He's a crutch to get you through the season at low cost.

 

With Villar at the ready to take 2b. Scooter becomes AAAA material to the Brewers. And Isan Diaz will be pushing hard to remove Villar from 2b. Really need to find a 1b or 3b prospect

[jerichoholicninja]

I just look at Scooter and wonder what team really would want him. The majority of teams are set at 2B. A rebuilding team isn't likely going to want him as he doesn't have much upside. He's arby eligible so he's going to get more expensive, which might be more important to some teams than others. But he certainly won't be a ton of money.

 

I guess look at the list below and see where Scooter fits. Maybe the Dodgers if they don't sign someone. Angels work as well. Perhaps Oakland or the Mets.

The lack of versatility really limits him. Obviously, teams could shift someone (such as Segura moving back to SS).

 

BAL - Schoop - 2.1 WAR

BOS - Pedroia - 5.6

NYY - Castro - 1.3

TOR - Travis - 2.9

TAM - Forsythe - 3.4

 

DET - Kinsler - 6.1

CLE - Kipnis - 4.1

MIN - Dozier - 6.5

CWS - Lawrie - 1.3 / Saladino - 1.8

KCR - Merrifield - 1.8

 

SEA - Cano - 7.3

HOU - Altuve - 7.7

TEX - Odor - 2.4

OAK - Lowrie - (-0.4)

LAA - Giavotella - 0.5

 

WAS - Murphy - 4.6

PHI - Hernandez - 3.3

MIA - Gordon - 0.8 / Dietrich 2.4

NYM -

ATL - Peterson - 0.4

 

PIT - Harrison - 1.8

CHC - Zobrist - 3.8

STL - Wong - 1.5 / Gyorko 2.9

MIL - Scooter - 0.9

CIN - Phillips - 0.8

 

COL - LeMahieu - 5.2

LAD -

SFG - Panik - 1.1

SDP - Schimpf - 1.8

ARZ - Segura - 5.7

 

FAs - Neil Walker - 2.4, Utley 2.0

 

No obvious places but one that might make sense to me is the Yankees. Castro is their 2B and his and Scooter's offensive number in 2016 and career are virtually identical. Perhaps there's a platoon there. Also Chase Headley has become a dreadful hitter. I guess his defense is why he plays but maybe they move Starlin around between 2B and 3B and they've always got the DH to fill.

[ewitkows]

I wonder what plus Scooter it would take to pry shoemaker from the Angels? Would they want another MLB pitcher or prospects

[Oldcity]

Gennett is a DFA candidate. I wouldn't expect to get anything of real value for him.

[pacopete4]

Gennett is a DFA candidate. I wouldn't expect to get anything of real value for him.

 

 

If they get a player for him, isn't that real value? While I bag on Scooter frequently, he still probably is a starting 2B in the MLB. Do I want him on the Brewers? Heck no. But he'll find work somewhere if we move on from him.

[MKE81]

Based on the above. I have to say his trade value is the Waiver Wire.

 

But this is right. I've said for awhile now, SSs are no longer bad position. It's not 2 or 3 good ones and Yuniesky Betancourt becomes your eh, avg if he has a High BABIP.

The flood of SSs have become, find a place for them which naturally is 2b. Maybe this is an effect from Steriods being removed from baseball. Guys didn't bulk up to be 3b/1b or Corner OFs who can hit 40HRs on an average year. We switched to lean and athletic/quick and fast. That suits the the Middle Infield and CF. Someone posted a bit ago about 20/20 ML CFs and why kinda the diss on Brinson if he's a Floor of that type. Keon Broxton if given 600ABs would have been something like a 20/45. Brett Phillips is a 20/20 with a cannon arm. There are 9 current CF MLeaguers with 20/20 and better if given 600ABs. And there are another 10 or more hitting the Majors within the next 3years. We have Broxton, Phillips, drafted Corey Ray who I hope reaches 20/20, well even just makes it to the Majors. So to add Brinson who falls right in line with that type wasn't appealing.

 

Remember, Scooter's year included Numbers from the LHP's side, that he'd never achieved before. Batting essentially the same as vs RHP. But he'd never been close before. Regression on his numbers are huge. His value has just become the one that. When your #1 2b goes down for the year, He's a crutch to get you through the season at low cost.

 

With Villar at the ready to take 2b. Scooter becomes AAAA material to the Brewers. And Isan Diaz will be pushing hard to remove Villar from 2b. Really need to find a 1b or 3b prospect

Here's a reality check since I was the guy who posted the Brinson 20/20 floor perspective. This year there were TWO CF in MLB who were 20/20. Not nine....TWO. You can say "if given 600 AB then xyz..." all day long but it's not realistic because almost everyone doesn't reach 600 AB. Last year there were TWO CF who had 600 AB. Over the past 3yrs there have been between 12-14 CF each year in MLB who only had 500+ AB. There are 30 teams. You do the math.

 

There are 90 starting OFs in MLB. This year there were FIVE 20/20 (3 in 2015, 2 in 2014). 38 had 500+ AB (7 of those had 600+). Again, do the math. 20/20 OFs don't fall off a tree. Which is why you don't trade them unless you do so from a position of depth.

 

Regarding Scooter, someone will trade for him even if it's as a platoon and lefty bat off bench. It'll be for 1-2 low level prospects (or a pen arm perhaps) but it doesn't matter because we have Villar ready to improve the 2b position and getting anything for Scooter will benefit the org somehow even if it's just to provide additional depth somewhere.

[brewcrewdue80]

So the same qualifies on Brinson. If he magically as it appears reaches the 600AB threshold, he just may reach 20/20. But at 207ABs with 9HR/23SBs completely negates the statement of Keon Broxton being a 20/20 well, 20/45 type of CF if he were to reach 600ABs. At 450 ABs where is Brinson in this 20/20? I'd imagine 12-14/11-15

 

I don't like Brinson's SB numbers. Being consistently at or near 20 without a Mid 30s and higher season. So you wonder with better Catchers, as well as where he'll be batting in the order, having Villar/Broxton as well as Arcia, if he'll get enough attempts to even steal 20bases. I mean I guess if we are moving to a roster full of 20HR ceilings, you'd expect the lack of power brings speed to steal bases to compensate.

 

In the end, to combat my suggestion of 9 20/20s or better at CF in the Majors this season if they reached 600ABs, isn't any different than the claim of Brinson being a 20/20...He needs 600ABs as well to likely reach that.

 

Feelings haven't changed on Gennett.

[HighHeat19]

Gennett to Arizona? Or is Brandon Drury going to be the everyday 2B?

[MadThinker88]

Gennett to Arizona? Or is Brandon Drury going to be the everyday 2B?

 

The DBacks already have 3 SS on their 40 man roster w/ MLB experience (beyond having Drury). I would guess one of them might move over to 2B if they don't wish to commit to Drury.

 

If they plan to look outside the organization for other 2B options, MAYBE they would have an interest in Scooter although I doubt it with the other players on the market/ possibly available in trade from other organizations (Derek Dietrich for example).

 

Scooter is bottom third, perhaps even in bottom 20% of all MLB 2B. Once a better 3B option is determined, Villar moves over to 2B and Scooter goes bye-bye...

[MKE81]

So the same qualifies on Brinson. If he magically as it appears reaches the 600AB threshold, he just may reach 20/20. But at 207ABs with 9HR/23SBs completely negates the statement of Keon Broxton being a 20/20 well, 20/45 type of CF if he were to reach 600ABs. At 450 ABs where is Brinson in this 20/20? I'd imagine 12-14/11-15

 

I don't like Brinson's SB numbers. Being consistently at or near 20 without a Mid 30s and higher season. So you wonder with better Catchers, as well as where he'll be batting in the order, having Villar/Broxton as well as Arcia, if he'll get enough attempts to even steal 20bases. I mean I guess if we are moving to a roster full of 20HR ceilings, you'd expect the lack of power brings speed to steal bases to compensate.

 

In the end, to combat my suggestion of 9 20/20s or better at CF in the Majors this season if they reached 600ABs, isn't any different than the claim of Brinson being a 20/20...He needs 600ABs as well to likely reach that.

 

Feelings haven't changed on Gennett.

Brinson's HR/SB numbers if reached 500 AB every season in pro ball:

2013 - 23/27

2014 - 19/17

2015 - 25/23

2016 - 18/21 (while being injured)

Averages of 21/22 being 1.5 - 4 years young at every level.

 

You're right, there's nothing that suggests he's a 20/20 unless reaching the magical 600 AB mark. There's a reason everyone says he has 30/30 potential but somehow you think he can't even hit 20/20 when he's doing it already.

 

Everyone knows Broxton can steal 20 in his sleep. 9HR in 207 AB last year puts him 22HR with 500 AB and that includes his awful first half. It's fine if you don't think Brinson hits 20/20 but what you're suggesting has zero evidence supporting it; same with Broxton (albeit he's a different case because he's older and also just changed his hand positioning allowing for greater power even though he already had 15+ potential).

 

Scooter is a decent starting 2b but he doesn't do anything very well and only plays 2b. He absolutely needs to be traded and Stearns needs to find a 3b. Scooter can contribute to a team; just doesn't fit the direction of the Brewers. If Rogers brings back Broxton/Supak and Sneed brings back Villar then Scooter will bring back something that will help the org in some capacity

[Austin Tatious]

Speaking of Gennett he doesnt have much value. Maybe hang onto him until some team has an injury and needs a stopgap. Minimal demand for him now.

[pacopete4]

I wish he wasn't costing us so much money. He really isn't worth it. If he wasn't costing us so much, there wouldnt' be much of an issue (not sure on his options) with putting him at AAA and letting him smack it around in Colorado Springs. Paying him $3+ million probably keeps him on our roster.

[JohnBriggs12]

I wish he wasn't costing us so much money. He really isn't worth it. If he wasn't costing us so much, there wouldnt' be much of an issue (not sure on his options) with putting him at AAA and letting him smack it around in Colorado Springs. Paying him $3+ million probably keeps him on our roster.

 

$2.5 million isn't a lot for a .279 lifetime hitter in over 1500 major league at bats and who's in his prime. The Brewers paid Counsell $2.8 million in 07 and 08 to be a utility infielder in his mid 30s. Worst case, Brewers can use an accomplished LH hitter to pinch hit late in game. He's also insurance if Arcia gets off to slow start and they decide to send him down to get straight as they can move Villar back to SS and put Scooter at 2B.

[MrTPlush]

I wish he wasn't costing us so much money. He really isn't worth it. If he wasn't costing us so much, there wouldnt' be much of an issue (not sure on his options) with putting him at AAA and letting him smack it around in Colorado Springs. Paying him $3+ million probably keeps him on our roster.

 

$2.5 million isn't a lot for a .279 lifetime hitter in over 1500 major league at bats and who's in his prime. The Brewers paid Counsell $2.8 million in 07 and 08 to be a utility infielder in his mid 30s. Worst case, Brewers can use an accomplished LH hitter to pinch hit late in game. He's also insurance if Arcia gets off to slow start and they decide to send him down to get straight as they can move Villar back to SS and put Scooter at 2B.

 

Why Counsell got paid.

[pacopete4]

I wish he wasn't costing us so much money. He really isn't worth it. If he wasn't costing us so much, there wouldnt' be much of an issue (not sure on his options) with putting him at AAA and letting him smack it around in Colorado Springs. Paying him $3+ million probably keeps him on our roster.

 

$2.5 million isn't a lot for a .279 lifetime hitter in over 1500 major league at bats and who's in his prime. The Brewers paid Counsell $2.8 million in 07 and 08 to be a utility infielder in his mid 30s. Worst case, Brewers can use an accomplished LH hitter to pinch hit late in game. He's also insurance if Arcia gets off to slow start and they decide to send him down to get straight as they can move Villar back to SS and put Scooter at 2B.

 

Why Counsell got paid.

 

It's just tough paying a one-trick pony. That's all I'm saying. I like the move towards versatility. Especially if you aren't extremely good at one thing.

[TURBO]

 

It's just tough paying a one-trick pony. That's all I'm saying. I like the move towards versatility. Especially if you aren't extremely good at one thing.

 

That 2.5 million means nothing to our current salary structure. NOTHING!

 

It isn't like that 2.5 is stopping us from making other moves.

 

It is just plain meaningless.

[NievesNoNO]

I agree the salary is meaningless. I don't see a market for Scooter. He's not an upgrade for anybody as a starter that I can think of, outside of maybe the Dodgers. As a bench/role player his limited versatility hurts (as others have already noted).

[pacopete4]

 

It's just tough paying a one-trick pony. That's all I'm saying. I like the move towards versatility. Especially if you aren't extremely good at one thing.

 

That 2.5 million means nothing to our current salary structure. NOTHING!

 

It isn't like that 2.5 is stopping us from making other moves.

 

It is just plain meaningless.

 

When you could pay a guy league minimum and save $2million, I would say that is not meaningless.

[JosephC]

Gennett's value of being a Brewer in 2017 seems to outweigh his value as a trade chip. He does have positive trade value but it would be minimal. The Brewers could probably trade him for a role player type prospect and a fringe prospect. Chances are that one of those two players would never see the majors and the one that does probably would only have about a 20% chance of making a meaningful impact in the big leagues. Even though he doesn't have versatility, he still could end up being a decent contributor for the Brewers in 2017 because there are so many other questions around the diamond. If Arcia isn't ready or Shaw can't post an OBP above .300, then Villar can move to the left side of the diamond and Gennett can step in at second base. If Thames craps out at 1B then Shaw probably moves to 1B, Villar moves to 3B and 2B is opened back up for Gennett. While everybody should feel pretty good about Villar there is an outside chance that he could regress. Gennett would also the first guy off the bench if injury strikes one of the projected starting four. Depending on how things shake out, having a guy with his starting experience could pay some solid dividends depending on what happens with rest of the infield.

[TURBO]

 

It's just tough paying a one-trick pony. That's all I'm saying. I like the move towards versatility. Especially if you aren't extremely good at one thing.

 

That 2.5 million means nothing to our current salary structure. NOTHING!

 

It isn't like that 2.5 is stopping us from making other moves.

 

It is just plain meaningless.

 

When you could pay a guy league minimum and save $2million, I would say that is not meaningless.

 

but it IS meaningless due to the low salary we will be shelling out this year. If we were signing top flight free agents trying to be competitive in 2017, then that 2.5 million might mean something, but that isn't the case.

 

Scooter's 2.5 million means nothing in the grand scheme of 2017. Zero, nadda, ZILCH.

[MKE81]

Scooter has earned that 2.5M with his performance and his salary, in fact, means nothing as it doesn't prevent the Brewers from accomplishing anything. If he ends up being a role player then so be it. I have no problem with him as a backup given Shaw can play both corners, Villar can play 3 IF spots and Perez can play every spot. There's plenty of versatility on this team already. If there is an injury then Scooter isn't playing 2b full-time. He'll still be splitting time with Perez. At least it gives the team an experienced backup 2b/pinch hitter (who's a lefty) and if another team has a 2b go down for an extended period of time then maybe they'll fork over a young lottery ticket.

[pacopete4]

Scooter's 2.5 million means nothing in the grand scheme of 2017. Zero, nadda, ZILCH.

 

 

$2 Million is still $2 Million. If it saves MA that money he can place it elsewhere. Just do not agree with you at all on this.