Scooter Gennett's trade value

[brewcrewdue80]

Looking around some of the team in MLB and 2b production. Oakland and Cincinnati could be fits for Scooter. Maybe even Atlanta. Gennett certainly isn't expensive, even going to Arb, it'll be the 1st for him and one would think 2million-ish is forthcoming only. I wouldn't expect a major return. From Oakland maybe a Casey Meisner. Cincy someone like Taylor Sparks or Nick Travieso.

[MrTPlush]

that's kind of surprising that fangraphs has him rated that low, but looking at his stats it kind of makes sense. I would love to move him for basically anything this off season, but I think a non-tender is more than likely. Maybe Stearns can get Arizona on the phone again.

 

Non tender? Come on...

 

There would probably be a good handful of teams wanting Gennett. Rickie Weeks(no offense to him. Love him) still has a job and Gennett is better. Gennett has trade value.

[MillerParkSouth]

I guess it depends on how the team views the other infielders. He doesn't have any positional flexibility, so if they want to give some of the young outfielders a chance next year, pushing Perez to 3B, you could put Villar at 2nd and get rid of Scooter. Not saying its likely, but its possible.

[Roderick]

that's kind of surprising that fangraphs has him rated that low, but looking at his stats it kind of makes sense. I would love to move him for basically anything this off season, but I think a non-tender is more than likely. Maybe Stearns can get Arizona on the phone again.

 

Non tender? Come on...

 

There would probably be a good handful of teams wanting Gennett. Rickie Weeks(no offense to him. Love him) still has a job and Gennett is better. Gennett has trade value.

 

I think Gennett has trade value now. But unless he has a better hitting year in 2017, I don't see much surplus value over his arby costs come 2018. So I can see a scenario where he is not tendered a contract for 2018 by whoever has his rights at the end of the 2017. I assume the Brewers trade him for whatever the best deal is before 8/1/17.

 

That 2018 cost is much more than what Weeks costs this year, when you are comparing circumstances of how Weeks has a job versus Gennett's value.

[adambr2]

that's kind of surprising that fangraphs has him rated that low, but looking at his stats it kind of makes sense. I would love to move him for basically anything this off season, but I think a non-tender is more than likely. Maybe Stearns can get Arizona on the phone again.

 

Non tender? Come on...

 

There would probably be a good handful of teams wanting Gennett. Rickie Weeks(no offense to him. Love him) still has a job and Gennett is better. Gennett has trade value.

 

Weeks has (well, a little) positional flexibility. Gennett has none.

 

It's not that Gennett is a terrible player. But he can't play anywhere besides 2nd, he isn't a great option against LHP, and his mediocre defense doesn't even make him a good option as a defensive replacement.

 

If he played passable defense at SS and 3B, that might make him a lot more attractive. His lack of versatility really limits his value.

[gregmag]

The thing about Scooter now, if he keeps playing like this, is that he isn't really good at anything but he isn't bad at anything. He hits for an okay average, has a little pop, seems to have overcome his allergy to lefties, draws almost a passable number of walks, plays what I'm told grades out as adequate defense, and even steals the occasional base. Those last four things are new this year, and he's still young enough for the modest improvements to be plausibly real. As a starting 2b he won't hurt you. He may only be the 20th guy at the position, but there are 30 teams. We just need to find a team that (a) has a gaping hole at 2b and (b) is willing to let go of a prospect or two.

 

The more I think about it, the more he seems as good as gone. Nothing about him seems consistent with the kinds of players Counsell and Stearns seem to like: athletic, versatile, preferably young and/or with five or six years of team control. If you play him next year, you have to not play one of Villar, Perez, or Santana, or arguably Broxton / Brinson if we think Villar could handle cf. Every one of those guys is younger than Gennett (well, Broxton only by six days) with more team control and some combination of greater athleticism, greater established skill(s), and greater upside.

 

Gennett has improved modestly this year, which suggests we have a pretty good idea of what he is. Leaving aside the tendency of second basemen for early declines, maybe he gets ten percent better next year, which would make him about a league average player. What good does that do the Brewers? In contrast, Villar is already playing at a star level and Broxton, Perez, and Santana all have breakout potential. Gennett's the ultimate placeholder, a Jim Gantner for our time. That kind of player does the Brewers no good, but he could be valuable to a good team that has a dumpster fire at 2b.

[Warning Track Power]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Scooter would represent what Brendan Ryan represented to us as fans during the lead up to the 2011 trade deadline. While Ryan was not a world beater, he represented a significant upgrade, at least defensively, to Yuni B. during what was a run at the World Series.

[jerichoholicninja]

The thing about Scooter now, if he keeps playing like this, is that he isn't really good at anything but he isn't bad at anything. He hits for an okay average, has a little pop, seems to have overcome his allergy to lefties, draws almost a passable number of walks, plays what I'm told grades out as adequate defense, and even steals the occasional base. Those last four things are new this year, and he's still young enough for the modest improvements to be plausibly real. As a starting 2b he won't hurt you. He may only be the 20th guy at the position, but there are 30 teams. We just need to find a team that (a) has a gaping hole at 2b and (b) is willing to let go of a prospect or two.

 

The more I think about it, the more he seems as good as gone. Nothing about him seems consistent with the kinds of players Counsell and Stearns seem to like: athletic, versatile, preferably young and/or with five or six years of team control. If you play him next year, you have to not play one of Villar, Perez, or Santana, or arguably Broxton / Brinson if we think Villar could handle cf. Every one of those guys is younger than Gennett (well, Broxton only by six days) with more team control and some combination of greater athleticism, greater established skill(s), and greater upside.

 

Gennett has improved modestly this year, which suggests we have a pretty good idea of what he is. Leaving aside the tendency of second basemen for early declines, maybe he gets ten percent better next year, which would make him about a league average player. What good does that do the Brewers? In contrast, Villar is already playing at a star level and Broxton, Perez, and Santana all have breakout potential. Gennett's the ultimate placeholder, a Jim Gantner for our time. That kind of player does the Brewers no good, but he could be valuable to a good team that has a dumpster fire at 2b.

 

This is spot on. He's so very adequate at everything but his lack of defensive versatility is what's going to hurt him. However, I bet you could throw him in RF or LF every now and then and he's not going to be any worse then Braun or Davis.

[MKE81]

Braun and Davis should never be in the same sentence regarding defensive ability. Braun is solid in LF with a strong arm and average in RF but his arm still played there (but wasn't great there). Saying that someone like Scooter, who isn't as athletic as Braun to begin with, could simply walk out to LF/RF without ever playing it professionally and be just as good as Braun is beyond comprehension. Davis is a defensive liability due to his arm. He reads balls well. He's not as fast as Braun but him reading balls well makes him average defensively to the point you can easily get away with him there - but his arm is little league rendering him next to useless in the NL. Scooter's arm is average for a 2b - the shortest throw in the IF and it's average - there's no way it plays in the OF in general let alone in RF where the strongest arms go. My goodness is this conversation really happening?

 

Scooter was going to eventually be traded as soon as Stearns took over for the reasons you all mentioned above - he's adequate across the board and isn't versatile defensively. Villar, Perez (and guys like Rivera) can play 3 IF spots and play them fairly well. Arcia is set at SS. While Diaz is going to be a 2b at the MLB level he could at least slide over to SS if needed to cover some games. Scooter provides none of this. He's having a bounce back year and will be hitting his prime next year with 3yrs til FA. He'll be gone in the off-season with an IF of Carter, Villar, Arcia, Perez. I can see someone like Cecchini backing up both corner spots and there's so much flexibility between Villar/Perez that if another IF has a day off they slide over and cover that spot. Rivera could be a backup IF as well since he can play all 3 IF spots. Won't hit much but will play great defense, which is what you need at minimum filling in for a game.

[danzig6767]

 

True, you should get greater value for Villar than Scooter.

That being said, why do you want to hold onto the lesser talent/ player with lesser value??

Gennett is the greater talent. Villar's career OPS is .717. Gennett's is .743. Villar strikes out a ton for a guy with minimal power. Scooter has more power and has hit for a higher average over a longer sample. Even Villar's strength, stealing bases, is completely offset by the times he gets thrown out on the bases.

Gennett is nowhere near a better talent.

 

Villar has a .390 OBP which is elite, Scooter at .325 is pedestrian. Villar is a switch hitter without a liability from either side.

 

Defensively he has better range and a better arm.

 

Villar is also developing as a hitter as he's gotten everyday at bats. He's on pace for about 13-15 home runs, 40 plus doubles, and 80 plus walks. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he hit 20 homers next year and his plate discipline doesn't look to be a one year fluke.

[NievesNoNO]

In the right situation he has a small amount of trade value. I guess it depends on what you consider value; if a return of anything qualifies as value then I guess he does.

 

Maaybee Oakland would view him as an upgrade in the off season. Try to get him through waivers. I could see a scenario where he'd have value on a contender as a bench player. I'm not sure what the return would be, an A ball lotto ticket maybe.

[igor67]

I'm optimistic in the sense that everything about Stearns up to this point suggests that if there is an opportunity he'll pull the trigger. A cheap guy who can do everything ok absolutely has value. Now normally most teams probably have their own guy they'd just as soon plug-in and give a chance. But the right injury and if your not picky about the return you can turn him back into an interesting player. So I'd say it is more a matter of whether or not the situation materializes.

[MadThinker88]

Perhaps after the season DS can trade Scooter to LAA like he sent Lind to Seattle.

 

I realize the Angels system is the weakest in baseball but the way DS and his group searches the lower minors, I am confident he could uncover a gem or two.

Heck, the Angels have a history of trading away lower guys that pan out. The latest example: Mike Clevinger (now with Indians) for a struggling/ underperforming Vinnie Pestano.

 

If the Angels don't want to deal for Scooter, perhaps 'Free Wily' Peralta or Matt Garza would interest them. Trading off those 3 guys will help free up 40 man roster space needed this off season..

[LouisEly]

Interesting the Angels come up because they really need some LH balance, which is the strength that Gennett brings to the table.

 

I was looking at the possibility of Braun to the Angels, because they have Weaver and Wilson coming off the books this year ($40M) and Hamilton ($26M) and likely Nolasco and Street ($21M) coming off the books after next season. But then I realized that they pretty much have nothing for prospects to trade.

[jerichoholicninja]

Interesting the Angels come up because they really need some LH balance, which is the strength that Gennett brings to the table.

 

I was looking at the possibility of Braun to the Angels, because they have Weaver and Wilson coming off the books this year ($40M) and Hamilton ($26M) and likely Nolasco and Street ($21M) coming off the books after next season. But then I realized that they pretty much have nothing for prospects to trade.

 

[sarcasm]Trout[/sarcasm]

 

Is there an organization in a worse position than them right now? Mediocre major league talent, high paid declining veterans, no minor league prospects what so ever. They need to trade Trout if they want to have any hope of having a respectable team for the next 5-10 years.

[logan82]

Their payroll obligations are not that bad for a big market team. They owe Simmons, Pujols, and Trout money after 2017 but that still leaves them about $70m for the rest of the team.

[LouisEly]

The Angels have up to $60M coming off the books this year, as well as $90M over the next two years from just five players (Weaver, Wilson, Hamilton, Nolasco, Street). The only bad contract they have is Pujols - Simmons' isn't good but it's not awful - and they are getting $150M/year in TV revenue for the next 15 years. That can buy a lot of free agents or take on a lot of contracts and not have to give up talent. They'll suck for two years and have some high draft picks and international bonus pool to bring some talent.

 

The biggest question mark is how Heaney, Tropeano, and Richards will come back from Tommy John surgery. If they can come back, and Artie waits until the 2017-2018 offseason to open up his checkbook, they can be back in it quickly. That $90M coming off... can buy Arrieta ($30M/year), Tyson Ross ($25M/year), Jay Bruce ($17M/year), and Moustakas ($18M/year). I picked the last two because they need LH balance, but the point remains that if they add those four on top of Trout, Simmons, Cron, Heaney, Richards, and Skaggs they will be right back in it.

[nate82]

 

Is there an organization in a worse position than them right now? Mediocre major league talent, high paid declining veterans, no minor league prospects what so ever. They need to trade Trout if they want to have any hope of having a respectable team for the next 5-10 years.

 

The Angel's will not be trading Trout. There is no team in baseball that will be willing to pay the amount that the Angels will be asking for.

 

For example the Red Sox would have to give up Benintendi, Moncada, plus more for Trout. Do you really think a team is going to pay that much in prospects for Trout?

 

There is no way the Angels will get enough value in trading Trout so they are stuck with him or they can take a lesser deal than what Trout is worth.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

Is there an organization in a worse position than them right now? Mediocre major league talent, high paid declining veterans, no minor league prospects what so ever. They need to trade Trout if they want to have any hope of having a respectable team for the next 5-10 years.

 

The Angel's will not be trading Trout. There is no team in baseball that will be willing to pay the amount that the Angels will be asking for.

 

For example the Red Sox would have to give up Benintendi, Moncada, plus more for Trout. Do you really think a team is going to pay that much in prospects for Trout?

 

There is no way the Angels will get enough value in trading Trout so they are stuck with him or they can take a lesser deal than what Trout is worth.

 

You can bet Dembroski has certainly though about it. Boston has a plethora of prospects and young major leaguers they could trade and not kill their organization. Betts, Moncada, Bradley, and Benintendi for Trout. How can the Angels say no to that.

[reillymcshane]

The Angels reportedly turned down a trade offer for a 2B who's offense was better than his defense, according to the Angels beat writer.

 

While a lot of people speculate it's Howie Kendrick, Scooter would probably fit the description as well. Here's the tweet:

 

Heard today the #Angels turned down an offer for a 2B who has a better bat than glove. Think defense is definitely a high priority at 2B.

 

[nate82]

The Angels reportedly turned down a trade offer for a 2B who's offense was better than his defense, according to the Angels beat writer.

 

While a lot of people speculate it's Howie Kendrick, Scooter would probably fit the description as well. Here's the tweet:

 

Heard today the #Angels turned down an offer for a 2B who has a better bat than glove. Think defense is definitely a high priority at 2B.

 

 

I think it was Scooter and the Angels were one of the teams I had pegged as a possible trading partner. After the Angels the Dodgers make some sense but I think the Dodgers value Kendrick more over Scooter due to Kendrick can play in the OF. After the Dodgers and Angels I am not sure there is a team that is going to be all that interested in Scooter. Maybe the A's and the Royals would be interested but I don't think you are getting much back from them. The Braves could be a possibility but I think they will go internally there.

[adambr2]

Scooter is pretty mediocre at both hitting and fielding. Not sure I would describe either his bat or glove as being better than the other.

[nate82]

Scooter is pretty mediocre at both hitting and fielding. Not sure I would describe either his bat or glove as being better than the other.

 

I would rate Scooter's bat better than his defense far better than his defense actually. Not that it is great or anything but he is better offensively than he is defensively. Yes I know what the advanced stats say about his offense and his defense but he is far worse defensively than his advanced stats say he is.

 

I still think the Angels were the best shot and I thought a Cowart for Gennett deal would be fair for both the Brewers and the Angels but it looks like they are valuing defense here at 2B.

[JohnBriggs12]

Scooter is pretty mediocre at both hitting and fielding. Not sure I would describe either his bat or glove as being better than the other.

 

I would rate Scooter's bat better than his defense far better than his defense actually. Not that it is great or anything but he is better offensively than he is defensively. Yes I know what the advanced stats say about his offense and his defense but he is far worse defensively than his advanced stats say he is.

 

I still think the Angels were the best shot and I thought a Cowart for Gennett deal would be fair for both the Brewers and the Angels but it looks like they are valuing defense here at 2B.

 

He's about average defensively. Turns the double play fine other than a couple instances where he took foot off too quick. Decent range and accurate arm. Much, much better than Weeks.

 

How quickly you forget all the times Weeks' bad throws cost them easy double plays. Almost never happens with Scooter.

[MadThinker88]

Another possible name for that Angels rejection is Derek Dietrich (Marlins).

 

As for Scooter's defense (or lack there of depending on viewpoint), take a look at the baseball reference site and the defensive numbers listed there.

 

Scooter does not fare well.

 

Scooter is easily in the bottom third of all regular 2B. Some would argue he is in the bottom 20%. Regardless, he is not someone that would bring a big return by himself and would likely need to be packaged with another player to bring a return anyone would recognize.