Orlando Arcia called up

[ClosetBrewerFan]

If it's a PR move then ... it worked. It was going to be hard watching this team with the players we lost. Watching Arcia is going to make it more interesting.

[brewcrewdue80]

Andrew McCutchen extended 2years beyond team control for a tops of 14.5million for 2018.

 

And hitting .241/.311/.408 at age 29

 

MLB is trending younger. Re-signing/extending a lot of our players is part of the old paradigm and very much a Melvin move. I doubt we'll see Stearns do a heckuva lot of that. Controllable young talent is how you sustain success in today's MLB. After 5 years, trade a player for two top prospects and keep on rolling.

 

Not to say a Brewer player won't get extended. But you don't stockpile Middle Infielders & athletic outfielders if your plan is to extend guys a lot. I would think if they do extend someone it'll be a pitcher, and they'll prioritize money towards international signings.

 

Guess you dont allow 1 poor season when amongst MVP type prior to that. Howd that turn out for Baltimore and Chris Davis last season? Heck The Brewers and Lucroy this season?

 

And to the point of Mif or CF types abundance. 50% of 1st rd picks make it. Well worse after thar. Coulter, Taylor, Roache are just a few Id expect never play more than 3years in the majors maybe accumulating a total of 200games combined. Until you find a perrenial 3+WAR player for a half dozen of years, there can never be enough SS and CF bodies. I expect Arcia to be one of those types, but maybe hes just a 2WAR Definsive SS. You get a 3+WAR SS upcoming and move Arcia to 2nd or another team. No one in the pipeline has Arcia potential at SS it would appear at least 3years from now. Lucky to a type like Arcia to watch these upcoming seasons. Hope he makes a Sportscenter top 10 on 1st ML game

[Ennder]

 

I don't think so, I still think Escobar was the best all around defensive SS I've seen come through the organization. I barely remember Yount as a SS and was way too young to make any judgments, though all MLB SSs are awful good defensively with the occasional exceptions like Yuni B floating around. The rest of the guys through the late 80s and 90s were alright, but none wow'd me like Escobar did. Alcides made the fantastic plays in both holes look routine, he's truly my benchmark for SS play.

 

 

Going to have to agree here. Other than Escobar the only other SS that I have seen play who is better than them all is Andrelton Simmons. The only other player who came close in the 90's that I got to see was Omar Vizquel. I think both Simmons and Escobar defensively are better than Vizquel was in terms of making wow plays.

 

Adam Everett was the best defensive SS to play the game in the past 15 years and Escobar isn't anywhere close to as good as he was. He was better than Vizquel as well.

 

Simmons might compare but hasn't been around long enough to judge yet.

[clancyphile]

I think the negative reactions are overstated. The rest of this season is about evaluation and development...they can invest major league playing time in some guys, including position switches, and see how they respond. They've likely answered a number of questions already (e.g., Walsh, Middlebrooks, and arguably Flores, are not part of the solution) but the near term and longer term future infield is still up for debate. I think it's a given that Arcia is the long term SS and Villar is not; Perez has earned a further look but where do Villar and Perez fit? To me this just says they want to get a good read on the following:

 

- Is Arcia ready for prime time next year?

- How will Villar handle 3b?

- What role(s) besides utility IF / 3b can Perez play going forward?

 

Add those to extended trials for Pina and Broxton, and they have a sense of their needs for next spring. I'm still not sure whether they see Scooter as a stopgap or a fixture at 2b, but if they think Villar is part of the future (and it seems that they do), you'd like to know whether he's productive at third and/or whether he should replace or complement Scooter.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that Arcia's AAA numbers don't warrant a callup. They've arguably regressed from his AA numbers in a park that ISN'T a hitter's paradise, like Colorado Springs is.

 

Villar was holding shortstop down very well, thank you very much. The Brewers didn't need to start Arcia's clock.

[LouisEly]

I understand the Brewers perspective and have no issue with the move. If there is a bad precedent, and not a terrible one by any means but not a good one either, it is the impact on Hernan Perez. Perez worked really hard to improve his conditioning/strength/diet, has done everything asked of him (played six different positions including RF where he had never played before), and now may not have a position for him next year.

 

He's not perfect by any stretch - he still needs to learn to lay off the low outside pitches - but if there is a person who has earned anything on this team it is Perez. He can play RF for now, but what about next year if/when Santana is back? Wren has earned his shot as well. Next year if you have Braun in LF, Wren in CF, and Santana in RF - with Villar at 3B, Arcia at SS, Gennett at 2B - Perez is the odd man out unless Carter is not back or Santana has elbow surgery (a distinct possibility). He can be a super-sub, but I think that regular playing time this year has helped with his production. Not knowing if you'll be in the lineup on any given day isn't the easiest thing for a young ballplayer.

 

Not the worst problem to have by any stretch, but it doesn't set a good example either and doesn't help with motivation.

 

(And before people say he's not good, he's having a better season than Neil Walker, Brett Lawrie, Chase Utley, Joe Panik, Starlin Castro, Josh Harrison, Kolten Wong, Jed Lowrie, Chase Headley, Matt Duffy, and is on par with Jose Ramirez, Javier Baez, Kang, Todd Frazier, Maikel Franco, and Adrian Beltre and not far behind Rougned Odor.)

[pacopete4]

I understand the Brewers perspective and have no issue with the move. If there is a bad precedent, and not a terrible one by any means but not a good one either, it is the impact on Hernan Perez. Perez worked really hard to improve his conditioning/strength/diet, has done everything asked of him (played six different positions including RF where he had never played before), and now may not have a position for him next year.

 

He's not perfect by any stretch - he still needs to learn to lay off the low outside pitches - but if there is a person who has earned anything on this team it is Perez. He can play RF for now, but what about next year if/when Santana is back? Wren has earned his shot as well. Next year if you have Braun in LF, Wren in CF, and Santana in RF - with Villar at 3B, Arcia at SS, Gennett at 2B - Perez is the odd man out unless Carter is not back or Santana has elbow surgery (a distinct possibility). He can be a super-sub, but I think that regular playing time this year has helped with his production. Not knowing if you'll be in the lineup on any given day isn't the easiest thing for a young ballplayer.

 

Not the worst problem to have by any stretch, but it doesn't set a good example either and doesn't help with motivation.

 

(And before people say he's not good, he's having a better season than Neil Walker, Brett Lawrie, Chase Utley, Joe Panik, Starlin Castro, Josh Harrison, Kolten Wong, Jed Lowrie, Chase Headley, Matt Duffy, and is on par with Jose Ramirez, Javier Baez, Kang, Todd Frazier, Maikel Franco, and Adrian Beltre and not far behind Rougned Odor.)

 

 

Why is Scooter, or Santana, or Wren(?!?) just given his spot? If Perez continues to perform, he'll play. It's that simple. Worrying about feelings after calling up your top prospect seems a bit odd to me. The best players will play.

[LouisEly]

Wren because of his performance this year (.425 OBP and .858 OPS) and being one of the few players in the org who can play CF. (The alternatives are Broxton and resigning Nieuwenhuis; does either of those sound better? Neither Brinson nor Phillips is ready yet.) Santana's .921 OPS in AAA says he doesn't have anything left to prove there. Gennett is questionable, but is a left-handed bat on a RH-heavy team.

 

The point others were making is that Arcia hasn't had that production at AAA to necessarily earn it. And it has nothing to do with "feelings"; it's about the message it sends to the team and organization.

[3and2Fastball]

I see Perez similar to Casey McGehee once upon a time. At every level of Baseball: "if you hit, you won't sit"

 

Quite simply, Perez can play his way into any starting lineup. The fact that he can play 6-7 positions sure helps

[logan82]

The point others were making is that Arcia hasn't had that production at AAA to necessarily earn it.

That is the strongest argument not to bring him up this year once we waited until June. I an guessing that they waited this long to see if they could possibly flip Villar as a SS at the deadline. There really is no reason to bring up Arcia now as opposed to the middle of June except to keep Villar at SS.

[pacopete4]

Wren because of his performance this year (.425 OBP and .858 OPS) and being one of the few players in the org who can play CF. (The alternatives are Broxton and resigning Nieuwenhuis; does either of those sound better? Neither Brinson nor Phillips is ready yet.) Santana's .921 OPS in AAA says he doesn't have anything left to prove there. Gennett is questionable, but is a left-handed bat on a RH-heavy team.

 

The point others were making is that Arcia hasn't had that production at AAA to necessarily earn it. And it has nothing to do with "feelings"; it's about the message it sends to the team and organization.

 

 

My point was none of the guys you listed will play over Perez if he continues to hit. Once he stops, he'll be replaced. It's truly have at simple. Arcia is ready to go defensively and is in the long term plans of this organization. They didn't want to wait until opening day next year for him to get his feet wet. Guys like Villar, who is having an awesome season, and Perez who has been scorching hot as of late completely understand this. Only we as fans sit here and dream up these things that these players are thinking. They are professionals. If they produce, they play. Simple as that.

[clancyphile]

I understand the Brewers perspective and have no issue with the move. If there is a bad precedent, and not a terrible one by any means but not a good one either, it is the impact on Hernan Perez. Perez worked really hard to improve his conditioning/strength/diet, has done everything asked of him (played six different positions including RF where he had never played before), and now may not have a position for him next year.

 

He's not perfect by any stretch - he still needs to learn to lay off the low outside pitches - but if there is a person who has earned anything on this team it is Perez. He can play RF for now, but what about next year if/when Santana is back? Wren has earned his shot as well. Next year if you have Braun in LF, Wren in CF, and Santana in RF - with Villar at 3B, Arcia at SS, Gennett at 2B - Perez is the odd man out unless Carter is not back or Santana has elbow surgery (a distinct possibility). He can be a super-sub, but I think that regular playing time this year has helped with his production. Not knowing if you'll be in the lineup on any given day isn't the easiest thing for a young ballplayer.

 

Not the worst problem to have by any stretch, but it doesn't set a good example either and doesn't help with motivation.

 

(And before people say he's not good, he's having a better season than Neil Walker, Brett Lawrie, Chase Utley, Joe Panik, Starlin Castro, Josh Harrison, Kolten Wong, Jed Lowrie, Chase Headley, Matt Duffy, and is on par with Jose Ramirez, Javier Baez, Kang, Todd Frazier, Maikel Franco, and Adrian Beltre and not far behind Rougned Odor.)

 

There is always the option to sell high with Perez, Villar, or other players.

[ZBTMP]

I'm not quite understanding the weird precedent that Arcia needs to "earn" it. It seems to have something to do with his status as top prospect. Rivera put up a 48 wRC+ in AAA but I don't remember anyone arguing about him not earning his September call-up last season. The only question that matters is when do the Brewers feel it is best for the long term development of Arcia to challenge and motivate him by facing big league pitching. I guess that time is now.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm not quite understanding the weird precedent that Arcia needs to "earn" it. It seems to have something to do with his status as top prospect. Rivera put up a 48 wRC+ in AAA but I don't remember anyone arguing about him not earning his September call-up last season. The only question that matters is when do the Brewers feel it is best for the long term development of Arcia to challenge and motivate him by facing big league pitching. I guess that time is now.

 

Rivera wasn't brought up and anointed the starting short stop pushing a guy who's having a great year to another position. I don't really think it's a huge deal but I can understand what those posters are saying.

[tmwiese55]

For the earning it aspect, you have to remember that defense is a big big part of the game of baseball and that is supposedly his biggest asset and seems completely ready from that perspective. By this logic that since he's merely hit ok that he didn't earn it, then Omar Visquel (and countless other defensive SS) never should have made it to the big leagues either.

[FVBrewerFan]

Conspiracy theory. Could it be they brought Arcia up to prove to him he needs to adjust some things to be able to hit at the MLB level?

 

I have never heard anyone say he's been a problem or anything, but players do have a way of sticking to what has worked for them and have a hard time changing their approach at the plate, stance, hands placement, etc.

 

So my theory goes, bring him up, he really struggles, then he goes back down to CS for half a season next year to work on his hitting. Or, if he adjusts this season, then he's off and running. They may feel nothing is going to change unless they let him see for himself he still has work to do.

 

No idea if that's the case, probably not. But I think it does make sense at least.

[Boomer5]

Remember, this is partly to get Arcia reps at SS AND to get Villar reps at 3B going into 2017.

[reillymcshane]

I want to add that perhaps one of the reasons he was called up is that the Brewers simply wanted him out of Colorado Springs because it was affecting his hitting.

 

Arcia has had minimal home/away splits in his career. But this year, he's hitting .307 at home and .227 on the road. I know that pitchers talk about how pitching in the thin air of Colorado can mess up their game. But it can sometimes do the same thing for hitters as well. Perhaps the club felt that Arcia would benefit from a better environment to continue his development.

 

That's all just speculation on my part.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Arcia needs to develop a batting stance. Doesn't have a wide enough base, imo. Right now he looks like he's setting up to tee off.

[logan82]

I'm not quite understanding the weird precedent that Arcia needs to "earn" it. It seems to have something to do with his status as top prospect. Rivera put up a 48 wRC+ in AAA but I don't remember anyone arguing about him not earning his September call-up last season. The only question that matters is when do the Brewers feel it is best for the long term development of Arcia to challenge and motivate him by facing big league pitching. I guess that time is now.

People generally don't care about wasting service time on guys who are not expected to do much. An extra year of Rivera doesn't mean much. An extra year of Arcia could be very valuable.

[Boomer5]

Based on what I have seen of his batting I think we are worried about nothing. He might not hit enough to merit a monster extension.

 

Seeing his stance was a serious buzz kill.

[The stache]

Arcia will be fine. He's done enough hitting in the minors to impress scouts with his potential. Tweak his stance, his approach a little, and the kid will hit.

[yfinn6]

For the people talking about his batting stance, didn't you watch any of his videos from being in the minors? He's swung it the same way for a long time, no?

[MrTPlush]

For the people talking about his batting stance, didn't you watch any of his videos from being in the minors? He's swung it the same way for a long time, no?

 

I think people are trying to find a reason for his struggles this year. If I got a dollar for every player with a stance that wasn't "perfect" I would be rich. Craig Counsell played baseball for a long time with one of the worst stances to ever exist. Too early to say it is an issue.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

There are a couple other non-descript players in MLB (Nolan Reimold for one) that have that stance. We may see it is hard for him to keep his hands back and handle pitches low and outside. Either way I'll let Darnell Coles worry about it. If there are no changes down the line then obviously it will work for him.

[1992casey]

I wouldn't use a judgmental term like "worst" for Craig's stance. It was definitely unique, and it worked for him until he reached old age. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else should be emulating it, though (although people loved to do it ).

 

Does anyone know what Orlando's stance was like last year? I think that might be the operative question. Knowing that might be better at this point than passing judgment out of hand.