Orlando Arcia called up

[DHonks]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'm fine with this move. I totally get the argument about service time, but if he doesn't perform it's pretty easy to justify optioning him back down to buy that service time back.

 

I probably would have kept him down but at some point, you've got to balance the service time concerns, with a guy who is basically ready who needs the big league experience and time to grow. Additionally, Villar may be our future at 3rd if he's not traded, so he needs reps there as well.

 

On that note too, players are people, and they know when you're keeping them down because they're not ready vs. when you're keeping them down to squeeze every bit of service time out of them as you can. Maybe they understand, maybe they don't, but they know and remember. In Arcia'a case, I can see it both ways. I think he would have a legitimate argument that he was ready to begin this season, and we have a legitimate argument that he's not really going to be ready tIl next year. So this seems like a fair compromise.

 

In the end, he's turns 22 on Thursday, his glove is definitely ready, and his bat is probably close to ready, and he's under team control through 2022.

 

I'm with Adam. I have no problem with this. At some point we'll have lots of younger guys. You can't call them all up at once, or you'll suck for several seasons. We'll start by integrating Arcia right now. Let him become familiar with SS in MLB parks. Let Villar have a chance to play and show he belongs in future plans. The difference between Arcia being a free agent in 2022 or 2023 is so far off. Teams have gone away from the arbitration clock fears that fans freak out about online. They realize it's important to let the players develop, but holding them down when they're ready doesn't help anyone.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If they are truly doing it for development reasons and not PR, it's fine. Maybe getting him up with the club will help. CS is such a crap place to play.

[3and2Fastball]

Thoughts on whether Arcia is the greatest defensive player in the history of the Milwaukee Brewers organization?

[brewcrewdue80]

Service time is mute when there's a strong likelihood you sign him to a 3-6year extension beyond team control.

 

Service time is never moot until he has the years in to be a free agent. If you do an extension with more arby years left, you will get a discount from the player (he is getting financial security), as you are further out from free agency and you are buying out less free agent years.

 

Do you think a five year extension would cost the same for a player that is one year away versus two years away from free agency? No, the player that is further away from free agency is going to get less.

 

Thanks on the spell check edit. So, he's turning 22 on the 4th. We control him then another 6years after this season. Means he'd be 28 in the midst of that.

Arcia gives off the impression of a slight level up on Alcides Escobar who debuted younger than Arcia will be by around 100days. Signed a team friendly extension with 2 options taking him to age 30.

 

That's what I'd expect on Arcia. If he's every bit the prospect we believe him to be, I'd imagine by 2019 offseason after 2.35 seasons the Brewers give him that kind of extension. Probably some amount higher money-wise but still. Well within reason in overall pay. If Arcia doesn't want to take the early payday, well, the team has a lot in the pipeline, I'd imagine come 2nd year of Arb he'd be on the trade agenda. Or maybe he's so good you extend regardless. pay him 20mil in seasons. Braun will be gone off the books by the time any kind of higher salary would begin. You are investing in results and production. I'm expecting a major invest for him. of that 3-6year extension. Of course injuries come in to play but 3-6 years is through 31-34 years of age. I don't see that monetarily becoming an issue. Teams find a way these days one way or the other. Andrew McCutchen extended 2years beyond team control for a tops of 14.5million for 2018. Marte appears to be 3years extended, and Polanco already appears to be 2years past. Our market is bigger than Pittsburgh so lets go with what they did and extend 1 more year affordably.

 

Either way, you're playing him at 30years of age when everyone around here wants to begin disposing of that aged players. I'd get it more if he were 20 for this season turning 21 next season. But he's turning 22 9years takes him post 30.

[3and2Fastball]

Andrew McCutchen extended 2years beyond team control for a tops of 14.5million for 2018.

 

And hitting .241/.311/.408 at age 29

 

MLB is trending younger. Re-signing/extending a lot of our players is part of the old paradigm and very much a Melvin move. I doubt we'll see Stearns do a heckuva lot of that. Controllable young talent is how you sustain success in today's MLB. After 5 years, trade a player for two top prospects and keep on rolling.

 

Not to say a Brewer player won't get extended. But you don't stockpile Middle Infielders & athletic outfielders if your plan is to extend guys a lot. I would think if they do extend someone it'll be a pitcher, and they'll prioritize money towards international signings.

[jerichoholicninja]

Andrew McCutchen extended 2years beyond team control for a tops of 14.5million for 2018.

 

And hitting .241/.311/.408 at age 29

 

MLB is trending younger. Re-signing/extending a lot of our players is part of the old paradigm and very much a Melvin move. I doubt we'll see Stearns do a heckuva lot of that. Controllable young talent is how you sustain success in today's MLB. After 5 years, trade a player for two top prospects and keep on rolling.

 

Not to say a Brewer player won't get extended. But you don't stockpile Middle Infielders & athletic outfielders if your plan is to extend guys a lot. I would think if they do extend someone it'll be a pitcher, and they'll prioritize money towards international signings.

 

And extending all glove no hit middle infielders just isn't really smart. Alcides Escobar, Andrus, Simmons, all guys who aren't worth their extensions.

[sveumrules]

The Escobar deal is pretty club friendly. If the Royals exercise their option next year the total outlay is only 6 years & 21.75 million. Relative peanuts compared to the 8/120 for Andrus or 7/58 for Simmons.

 

I think ultimately Escobar is the most realistic comp for Arcia. Glove first SS, with questions about the bat. Arcia has run higher BB% & ISOs than Alcides did in the minors so I'd probably set my median projection around 270/320/380 compared to a career line of 260/300/340 for Alcides.

[danzig6767]

Hopefully Perez plays most of the time in RF and the Ramon Flores experiment comes to an end. Flores doesn't seem to possess a single tool which makes him worthy of a roster spot, much less regular playing time.

[young guns]

[sarcasm]They want him to start out in the majors playing in san diego and this way they can guarantee he does that. Braun started in san diego and hes turned out pretty well so they figure theres something in the water for top prospects of other teams.[/sarcasm]

 

Im leaning towards wishing they had waited, though im still pretty excited for his debut. Only wish it was in better circumstances for me to watch him.

[fondybrewfan]

I really don't think it is a big deal either way if they want to call him up now. If the goal is to compete in say 2018 I would just assume not be starting a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. Let them get their feet wet this year and next so when we can compete in 2018 everyone has some experience.

 

There are a lot of very smart people in the Brewers organization that decide who to call up and when. Getting upset about possibly having to spend more money 6 years from now seems kind of pointless. It isn't our money and a million things can happen between now and then.

 

I do feel bad for Perez though; he has really been coming on strong of late.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Dumb move. Perez, Gennett and Villar are all playing quite well. One of them is going to have to sit. I can see Villar becoming a cancer if he is the odd man out. Could have easily waited a month for a longer audition from Perez, Gennett and Villar and should have rather seen someone brought up to platoon with Carter. Cooper and Cechinni were all better choices. Heck, even Wren makes more sense.

[tmwiese55]

Perez will simply play right. No way you bench Villar hitting 300/380 and leading the league in SBs. Guy just keeps hitting.

[danzig6767]

Dumb move. Perez, Gennett and Villar are all playing quite well. One of them is going to have to sit. I can see Villar becoming a cancer if he is the odd man out.

None have to sit if Counsell plays it smart.

 

Arcia at short. Villar at third. Gennett at second. Perez plays nearly everyday in RF to develop him into a super-sub going forward who can play in both the infield and outfield.

 

It's not as if we need to see Flores play anymore. By now it's obvious that he's terrible and has zero future with the team. Nieuwenhuis can play the other corner spot until Braun gets back. Broxton should start in CF the rest of the way to see how he fares and if he has a future with the team.

[tmwiese55]

Haven't seen it yet. Does anyone have any knowledge of how much 3B Villar has played in the minors?

[sveumrules]

50 innings in the minors & 80 in the majors for Villar at 3B.

[MadScientist]

With all the talk about why make this move now, one thing that hasn't been discussed is off season trades. The Brewers want to know if can be the SS on opening day. If he can, then it lets them trade someone else otherwise they have to keep that other guy.

[Montezuma]

The baseball purists will come to watch Arcia.

[BallFour]

Arcia at short. Villar at third. Gennett at second. Perez plays nearly everyday in RF to develop him into a super-sub going forward who can play in both the infield and outfield.

 

It's not as if we need to see Flores play anymore. By now it's obvious that he's terrible and has zero future with the team. Nieuwenhuis can play the other corner spot until Braun gets back. Broxton should start in CF the rest of the way to see how he fares and if he has a future with the team.

 

I agree with all of this, Flores has had his chance and shown absolutely nothing. As for Arcia crazy to think the kid lost a whole season and still getting to the show at the age of 21. I hope he can develop the bat a little bit more, but nonetheless ecstatic to see his glove and see if the hype passes the eye test.

[Montezuma]

PR move or not, I am excited to finally see him in action. I hope this debut is everything a young man dreams of, his first day playing in the major leagues.

[rickh150]

When was the last time a significant prospect for the Brewers made their MLB debut in Milwaukee.

 

I am having a difficult time thinking of who was the last. I want to say Prince but maybe Cain made his debut in Milwaukee. Braun made his MLB debut in San Diego.

 

Corey Hart and his crowd pleasing long foul ball.

 

Ha!

Great memory when sitting down left field line! Cranked and turned on it a ton.

[trwi7]

He'll wear the number of former Brewers great Yuniesky Betancourt.

[TheCrew07]

Thoughts on whether Arcia is the greatest defensive player in the history of the Milwaukee Brewers organization?

 

I don't think so, I still think Escobar was the best all around defensive SS I've seen come through the organization. I barely remember Yount as a SS and was way too young to make any judgments, though all MLB SSs are awful good defensively with the occasional exceptions like Yuni B floating around. The rest of the guys through the late 80s and 90s were alright, but none wow'd me like Escobar did. Alcides made the fantastic plays in both holes look routine, he's truly my benchmark for SS play.

 

Then again maybe I just got more appreciative with age.

 

I will say that Arcia made one of the better catches on a short pop up that I've ever seen from a SS. He was running on a straight line towards the CF looking back over his right shoulder and caught the ball with a basket catch while sliding, and then popped right up to his feet in one smooth motion like it was nothing special. He probably ended up 30-35 feet into short center on that looping pop up, it was spectacular.

 

For what it's worth between Yadiel Rivera, Orlando Arcia, and Angel Ortega, many in the organization thought Ortega was the best all around SS. I was never sold on that, both Rivera and Arcia flashed more potential when I was watching, but Chris Mehring pointed that out many times when Ortega was in WI.

[SoCalBrewfan]

I think the negative reactions are overstated. The rest of this season is about evaluation and development...they can invest major league playing time in some guys, including position switches, and see how they respond. They've likely answered a number of questions already (e.g., Walsh, Middlebrooks, and arguably Flores, are not part of the solution) but the near term and longer term future infield is still up for debate. I think it's a given that Arcia is the long term SS and Villar is not; Perez has earned a further look but where do Villar and Perez fit? To me this just says they want to get a good read on the following:

 

- Is Arcia ready for prime time next year?

- How will Villar handle 3b?

- What role(s) besides utility IF / 3b can Perez play going forward?

 

Add those to extended trials for Pina and Broxton, and they have a sense of their needs for next spring. I'm still not sure whether they see Scooter as a stopgap or a fixture at 2b, but if they think Villar is part of the future (and it seems that they do), you'd like to know whether he's productive at third and/or whether he should replace or complement Scooter.

[Sixto]

That didn't take long. He's starting at ss batting 7th

[nate82]

 

I don't think so, I still think Escobar was the best all around defensive SS I've seen come through the organization. I barely remember Yount as a SS and was way too young to make any judgments, though all MLB SSs are awful good defensively with the occasional exceptions like Yuni B floating around. The rest of the guys through the late 80s and 90s were alright, but none wow'd me like Escobar did. Alcides made the fantastic plays in both holes look routine, he's truly my benchmark for SS play.

 

 

Going to have to agree here. Other than Escobar the only other SS that I have seen play who is better than them all is Andrelton Simmons. The only other player who came close in the 90's that I got to see was Omar Vizquel. I think both Simmons and Escobar defensively are better than Vizquel was in terms of making wow plays.