Orlando Arcia called up

[And That]

There's a considerable gap between having heard the name and caring enough about it to be any financial boon for the Brewers. The number of people who buy tickets this year specifically due to Arcia is high likely to be minuscule.

 

I'd be curious if you took a survey of people inside of Miller Park, how many people would recognize the name Orlando Arcia, and also be able to name the position he plays. I'd put the over/under at 20%, and I think that might be generous.

[trwi7]

I think this is definitely a Mark A. move. It has to be. Why else would they call him up a day after the trade deadline? They're on the road, so the broadcast can say "top prospect Orlando Arcia, get your tickets for the next homestand now!"

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Who knows. With the nimble guys Stearns seems to love stockpiling in the middle, he could have somebody he likes more and wants him in the majors to showcase trade value. In any event I think this has been part of the plan for awhile. I don't buy for a second that they called him up to appease fans who are sad about Lucroy. I just can't get behind that.

 

I tend to think they just want him ready to be the every day guy sooner than later.

[And That]

Why else would they call him up a day after the trade deadline?

There was a roster spot due to the trade deadline?

[tmwiese55]

Also reports are that Santana is likely going for surgery and done for the year and we have no one competent to play OF. So Perez to right and Arcia up.

[Fear The Chorizo]

There was a roster spot due to the trade deadline?

 

that's another thing to consider, for sure - was there actually anyone else currently on the 40 man that would make more sense to call up to the big club following LuCroy, Jeffress, and Smith leaving it yesterday? Calling up any of the other prospects that were just acquired wouldn't make sense, and the rest of the current 40 man didn't have anyone worth calling up either due to injury or position/pitching staff depth remaining in Milwaukee. Even after the two relievers left the Brewers still had 12 pitchers on the 25 man once Goforth came back up. The other position player options aside from Arcia would've been Susac, Rivera, or Cecchini.

[Thurston Fluff]

Did he earn his way up? No. Bad precedent....

Yet, I am excited to see him play.

 

Not picking on you because plenty of people agree with this sentiment. I do as well. Players should earn their way up by performance not pedigree or whatever you want to call it. But I think Arcia has earned the call up on his defense alone. Players like Andrelton Simmons and Alcides Escobar are examples of players who didn't get to the majors for their offense. Arica is in that mold. A gold glove level defender at a premium defensive position has earned his promotion.

Even then I would be hesitant to bring him up too early because he might be one of those rare players who can give you both offense and defense if given enough time to develop properly. I'd hate to set him back on offense just to get his glove on the field. That concern was mitigated somewhat by an interview I heard with the AAA manager a few weeks ago. He said while Arcia isn't quite a finished product offensively yet he is advanced enough that he can learn as much at the major league level as he could in AAA. Adding in what Counsell said about him it makes me think that is true. So all in all my concerns are alleviated by what I've gathered about his offensive development and I am excited to see him play shortstop at a level we haven't seen in a while.

[nate82]

When was the last time a significant prospect for the Brewers made their MLB debut in Milwaukee.

 

I am having a difficult time thinking of who was the last. I want to say Prince but maybe Cain made his debut in Milwaukee. Braun made his MLB debut in San Diego.

[trwi7]

When was the last time a significant prospect for the Brewers made their MLB debut in Milwaukee.

 

I am having a difficult time thinking of who was the last. I want to say Prince but maybe Cain made his debut in Milwaukee. Braun made his MLB debut in San Diego.

 

Gallardo did.

[502 to Right]

The Brewers (likely) just traded what will hopefully be some kind of competitive 2023 year of control for a total dumpster fire year of control. At face value o think the move is bad in my opinion, but it could work out for the Brewers. Can't deny they just gave away a more competitive year of control though. Could really sting in the future.

 

 

They wouldn't lose a year of control. The player would go through arbitration 4 times rather than 3. Same number of years of control.

[tmwiese55]

Peralta did and was considered a very good prospect at the time.

[1992casey]

If Arcia never goes back to the minors, super-two won't happen. He won't have enough service time to be eligible after he completes two full seasons.

 

If he's up and down next year, super-two could happen. Or an extra year of service time could be gained.

[adambr2]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'm fine with this move. I totally get the argument about service time, but if he doesn't perform it's pretty easy to justify optioning him back down to buy that service time back.

 

I probably would have kept him down but at some point, you've got to balance the service time concerns, with a guy who is basically ready who needs the big league experience and time to grow. Additionally, Villar may be our future at 3rd if he's not traded, so he needs reps there as well.

 

On that note too, players are people, and they know when you're keeping them down because they're not ready vs. when you're keeping them down to squeeze every bit of service time out of them as you can. Maybe they understand, maybe they don't, but they know and remember. In Arcia'a case, I can see it both ways. I think he would have a legitimate argument that he was ready to begin this season, and we have a legitimate argument that he's not really going to be ready tIl next year. So this seems like a fair compromise.

 

In the end, he's turns 22 on Thursday, his glove is definitely ready, and his bat is probably close to ready, and he's under team control through 2022.

[brewcrewdue80]

I don't know if Isan Diaz can stick at SS, but if he can he's an intriguing prospect because of the power hitting ability. 15 HR's & 26 Doubles through 104 games at age 20 in A ball while hitting .270/350 .... he's only 2-3 years behind Arcia

 

There it is. Isan Diaz at .270 with more power is exciting and worthy. Arcia near .270 means he's not ready?

 

He's ready come on. His Batting avg dipped to .262 but he's now as someone posted earlier in last 28days kept it in the upper .260s .262-.272 So no longer on the decline and you know what to expect. Part of the reason for his high ranking besides his defense is that his bat is expected to transfer up to the Majors without much decline. 12 of his last 25hits since July 5th his .262 low are XBH. That is an improvement from his 22 of his first 83 hits being XBH. 48% vs 26.5%

 

Service time is moot when there's a strong likelihood you sign him to a 3-6year extension beyond team control.

 

For those saying he's not ready what did you expect from him numbers wise? .285? .315? At over 400 PAs that's 14 hits for .285.

He's very close to his career average line of .282/.339/404/.742

 

I'd imagine we see .250/310/.375 from him the rest of the season but showcasing his defensive skills.

 

Talk about service time but to me he's getting 29 more days service time for us to be a fan of than not. You weren't going to keep him from September play and any kind of .275+ Sept, heck just .250+ and you'd be having a lot of explaining to do why he didn't start the year in 2017 season.

I've fully expected this callup, and believed it was going to happen with a Gennett or Perez trade. But that didn't happen. Perez becomes a Super Utility. He is sitting at .929 Fielding Pct at 3b with 7Errors in 31games started/280+Innings For reference the Pirates Freese/Kang have 8errors in 875Innings, Cubs Bryant 7errors in 511Innings, Cardinals Carpenter 8 in 408Innings, and Reds Suarez 16 in 840Innings.

Perez is behind these guys in the division though its close to Suarez and Carpenter, but Carpenter provides quite a lot more offensively.

 

You get to see how Villar handles 3b, Perez some RF and Scooter is approaching a good Offseason trade or Perez depending how it all goes.

 

But Arcia he's ready if not then you have the precedence to keep him down next year til midseason. But I expect him to show he belongs.

[TURBO]

We are going to be rebuilding next year too, I'd rather see a stable infield of Perez, Villar, Scooter and Carter the rest of the way out, and let the chips fall where they may next season. The guys playing now have earned it. Perez has been stellar at the hot corner, and now we are going to move him? We won't be in contention next year, so why rush it now?

 

The only real plus I see here is that if Perez is going to get the majority of playing time in RF, we won't have to suffer through as much Flores time as before.

[jerichoholicninja]

When was the last time a significant prospect for the Brewers made their MLB debut in Milwaukee.

 

I am having a difficult time thinking of who was the last. I want to say Prince but maybe Cain made his debut in Milwaukee. Braun made his MLB debut in San Diego.

 

Corey Hart and his crowd pleasing long foul ball.

[Roderick]

Service time is mute when there's a strong likelihood you sign him to a 3-6year extension beyond team control.

 

Service time is never moot until he has the years in to be a free agent. If you do an extension with more arby years left, you will get a discount from the player (he is getting financial security), as you are further out from free agency and you are buying out less free agent years.

 

Do you think a five year extension would cost the same for a player that is one year away versus two years away from free agency? No, the player that is further away from free agency is going to get less.

[Bombers]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'm fine with this move. I totally get the argument about service time, but if he doesn't perform it's pretty easy to justify optioning him back down to buy that service time back.

 

I probably would have kept him down but at some point, you've got to balance the service time concerns, with a guy who is basically ready who needs the big league experience and time to grow. Additionally, Villar may be our future at 3rd if he's not traded, so he needs reps there as well.

 

On that note too, players are people, and they know when you're keeping them down because they're not ready vs. when you're keeping them down to squeeze every bit of service time out of them as you can. Maybe they understand, maybe they don't, but they know and remember. In Arcia'a case, I can see it both ways. I think he would have a legitimate argument that he was ready to begin this season, and we have a legitimate argument that he's not really going to be ready tIl next year. So this seems like a fair compromise.

 

In the end, he's turns 22 on Thursday, his glove is definitely ready, and his bat is probably close to ready, and he's under team control through 2022.

I agree with this and am fine with the move. There isn't a perfect time to bring anyone up. You do what you think is best for each person. Look at Altuve and Correa. Altuve skipped AAA after having only 153 PA in AA. (Granted he flat out raked in the minors. Correa had 246 PA in AA in AAA combined. Altuve was 21 and Correa was 20 when brought up. Could they of held them back to help with the service time. Sure, but why. Correa hit 276 .345 .449 .794 in AAA and was promoted. Arcia is at .267 .320 .403 .723, clearly less but is being promoted. In the end coaching and management think it is time. He is ready for the challenge and they think this is the best way to continue his arch of improvement. Also being around other big leaguer players and coaches will help.

[sveumrules]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'm fine with this move. I totally get the argument about service time, but if he doesn't perform it's pretty easy to justify optioning him back down to buy that service time back.

 

Right there with you. It's not like calling him up now guarantees that he will be a FA after 2022. If he doesn't hold his own it makes it that much easier to start him next year in AAA again and call him up late enough to get that extra year of control for 2023. If he does hold his own it's a moot point because in that case he clearly would deserve to be up.

 

I'd love to call every single prospect up the day after the super two deadline in any given year but each case is unique. In this case I think Orlando has demonstrated enough in the minors to earn his call and hopefully get his feet wet in anticipation of a full season in 2017.

[wildcat83]

I actually like the move as long as Flores/Newenheius lose the time and Perez gets most of the starts in RF. Villar, Perez, and Scotter are playing well enough right now to be on the field, so I hope that's how it plays out.

 

If he plays well and is the opening day starter next year the service time is the same anyways. If he's not ready he starts next year in AAA and you get the year back. Actually no risk here for years of control. People are over reacting to that aspect greatly. The Brewers still have control of if they lose that year or not. It's not automatically gone just because he was called up now.

 

I'm looking forward to watching tonight and the rest of the year.

[Boomer5]

We just lost Lucs bat and Flores is literally giving us the same production as putting a pitcher in RF.

 

Perez goes to right hopefully ending the Flores insanity and Arcia improves the D immediately and gets some reps to hit 2017 fresh.

 

If he plays great in 2017, we can always give him a long term deal long before 2022.

[Jenkins5]

They want to get him experience this year, let him adjust, and get feet wet so he can take off running next season. I have no problem with that. Let him go through his struggles now, adjust, and figure it out.

[bill hAll Star]

If he plays great in 2017, we can always give him a long term deal long before 2022.

 

While I'm generally a "save the service time" guy, I have chosen to be neutral on the Arcia news.

 

All of that said, not saving him in the minors until May or June of 2017 cuts off a year of your negotiating for a long-term deal. Arcia knows that he now is a free agent in 2022 and not 2023 now, so he can negotiate as such. We'll probably still get one less year of him if we sign an extension.

[thumperden]

I would like to see how Villar would handle CF here and there as well.

[TheCrew07]

I don't know if Isan Diaz can stick at SS, but if he can he's an intriguing prospect because of the power hitting ability. 15 HR's & 26 Doubles through 104 games at age 20 in A ball while hitting .270/350 .... he's only 2-3 years behind Arcia

 

Diaz has been moved to primarily 2B for the t-rats, just sayin...

 

That's not entirely true, he played SS 11 times in July, including the last 3 games in a row. His arm certainly leaves question whether or not he'll stick at SS long-term, but there isn't a single Rattler besides McDowell who's just played 1 position all year, and I like that the Brewers are making positional diversification a priority.

 

There's much more going on with the T-Rats than moving Isan to his potential MLB position, Erickson is mostly trying to figure out how to get ABs and defensive experience for everyone. It's as much about getting Aviles reps as a SS as it is Diaz reps at 2B.