Lucroy and Jeffress to the Rangers for CF Lewis Brinson, RHP Luis Ortiz, PTBNL…(Lucroy comments, post 523; PTBNL is Ryan Cordell, post 581)

[splitterpfj]

Briggs, you provided the names yourself, and yes, Phillips, Ray, Clark, and Erceg are the guys to point to right now.

 

Maybe the Brewers deal for someone who's closer to the big leagues, but maybe they don't, and no matter what, I see no evidence that you'll be happy with the timeline associated with this rebuild. At the major league level, the 2017 season for the Milwaukee Brewers, is already over. In fact, I think next year is the year of the worst record in this cycle. I think 2018 is a step forward, and 2019 is the first time the team may truly contend again. That could change, but right now, it's what I believe.

 

On the bright side, to your point on having some lefties around - they haven't ignored the idea, they've drafted three guys and traded for one in the last year plus.

 

As to needing pitching - that is also being addressed - Diplan, Kirby, Hader, Peralta, Ortiz, Bickford, etc, etc - it's basically the same thing I have to tell Briggs about his lefty hitters - you're going to have to accept the timeline al little bit here. The Brewers have more pitching talent in the system right now than they've had at any point in the last 25 years - and I'm sure they'll keep adding to it.

 

Patience, like it or not, is mandatory at a time like this. David Stearns was hired to acquire a depth of controllable young talent, and he's doing that. Young means what it says, and it's going to be a while yet before enough of this talent is together in Milwaukee to make us all happy. This year was the first year the Brewers picked in the top ten spots in the draft, the FIRST year, not the last, in this cycle.

 

When you're wishing for tomorrow to be the day, try to remember, this farm system was among the bottom 5-10 in baseball for five years, which left a lot of holes to fill at the minor league level. You can't fill major league holes in Milwaukee without minor league talent, and you can't skip that step in the process, or your, "rebuild" will require one screwdriver and a trip to IKEA.

[MKE81]

3. Stop, please, with the, "we have enough outfielders" routine. The Brewers need athletes who do baseball well, and that's what they've been getting. A big league team typically has five outfielders on it, so they need enough talent to fill five spots, not three. Guys get hurt, not every prospect makes it, someone could be moved to first base, depth is where you trade from to fill a need, so too much is never a bad idea, and finally - the Brewers have nowhere near, "too much" of anything, until they've run out of improvable space on the successful, contending MLB club they simply do not possess at this point in time.

 

 

This. This is exactly how I feel.

 

All well and good but name a successful major league team that did not have one power hitting lefty bat in the lineup somewhere? It's not so much about position as it is having a lineup that's balanced. Almost all the Brewer hitting prospects above A ball bat right handed Maybe Phillips can turn it around and be that guy and/or they can use an OF surplus to deal for a 1B, otherwise it might take the wave of Clark, Ray and Erceg to get some real pop from the left side. When will that be? 2019?

 

2014 WS Giants had Pablo (16 - switch hitter), Belt (12), Crawford (10)

2012 WS Giants had even less power from left side than 2014

 

That's 2 of the past 4 WS winners without a lefty power bat. The Royals had 3 lefties/switch hitters who hit 18-22HR last year and they tied for 51st and 73rd in MLB in HR. Not exactly good "power bat" rankings but they do have pop nonetheless.

[LouisEly]

So who's more obsessive - Stearns with OF or Ted Thompson with WR?

 

Cordell is a talent, but another right-handed OF is not the highest on the organizations' need list.

 

My guess: the Braun talks with LA had significant substance to them even if the deal wasn't completed.

[MKE81]

Stearns doesn't address organizational needs. He addresses talent and only talent

[Outlander]

I would tend to agree with that, still probably too early to address organizational needs as they are still not likely to compete any time soon. When they start competing again they can trade from whatever strengths they have if necessary.

[pacopete4]

Briggs, you provided the names yourself, and yes, Phillips, Ray, Clark, and Erceg are the guys to point to right now.

 

Don't forget about Diaz also Briggs. A lefty bat at 2B that has some definite pop. Truly we could have a left handed dominant lineup if they pan out.

 

1B- Santana? ®

2B- Diaz (L)

3B- Erceg (L)

SS- Arcia ®

LF- Ray (L)

CF- Brinson ®

RF- Phillips (L)

 

That's more than enough left handed options for this club and I didn't even insert Clark (L) or Villar (S). Also it's just using the guys that in this system now. Could be another bat or two that ends up with us via more trades or free agency.

[brewerfan82]

All well and good but name a successful major league team that did not have one power hitting lefty bat in the lineup somewhere?

The 2014 World Series Champion Giants' top lefty homerun hitters were Belt (12), Sandoval (11 as a lefty), and Crawford (10). That's actually pretty comparable to the 2016 Brewers' Nieuwenhuis (13), Gennett (10), Villar (8 as a lefty).

 

If you add the top three "lefty sluggers" for each team together you get the following:

2016 Brewer Lefty "Sluggers": 1109 ABs, 61 2Bs, 4 3Bs, 31 HRs, 133 BBs, 326 SOs, 17 SBs, .255/.335/.401/.736

2014 Giant Lefty "Sluggers": 1102 ABs, 48 2Bs, 12 3Bs, 33 HRs, 105 BBs, 247 SOs, 4 SBs, .271/.335/.426/.761

 

The Giants come out slightly ahead, but that's mainly from a few more singles (ie. not necessarily the power numbers). If you take away the 16 extra singles they have over the Brewers, you get an even more comparable .257/.321/.412/.733 line from them.

 

Anyways, I actually agree that lefty balance is a nice thing to have, but I was interested in looking into your "challenge" and found the Giants pretty quickly and more-so just found it an interesting comparison. However, I also agree that that's a very, down-the-road, concern that we shouldn't be worried about just yet.

[trwi7]

All well and good but name a successful major league team that did not have one power hitting lefty bat in the lineup somewhere?

 

The current Blue Jays.

[dacrew101]

Think the hope is that Cordell could be a utility player like Zobrist. That could be valuable, he's certainly athletic enough to play any position though he did somewhat struggle supposedly at infield a year ago..

 

But whatever, it's all potential.. It'll be interesting to see how this all goes down

[TheCrew07]

My thoughts.

 

Cordell is basically Mitch Haniger. He's not someone you play to play CF, but he can be passable for a time. They have somewhat similar physical skills, somewhat similar batting lines, and a similar career trajectory. They aren't directly comparable, but for anyone who may have lamented Haniger's loss, here's a pretty similar player coming back.

 

As much as I enjoy following prospects and believe in continually turning over the roster, Cordell is not comparable to Hart or any other major league player until he actually produces at that level. I'm not trying to hate on any particular poster, and I realize that to a certain extent MLB player comps will always be around, but I despise them with a passion. There are literally tons of players in the minors with 60+ raw power, but very few of those guys translate that in games. It's become too common around the forum to suggest that because a player has above average speed and is a great athlete he'll steal 40 bases, or because he hit X of HRs he'll hit Y in MLB, or is the best fielder the Brewers have ever developed because the player is a "defensive first" prospect, and so on down the line. Every prospect has a pretty unique career arc from the time they are acquired to what they ultimately become in the majors, statistical analysis doesn't do a great job of projecting MLB player in a given calendar year, and it's extremely dangerous to try and apply that same method to prospects who are constantly changing field conditions, leagues, and opposing player talent in addition to everything else the prospect has going on trying to improve their own game.

 

As to the pitchers the Brewers have acquired. Yes the Brewers have plenty of depth, but I'd definitely debate the quality. We don't have a single pitching prospect who was at the same level as Gallardo in terms of track record and stuff. Our best pitchers have 1 or the other but not both. I was always slightly disappointed that Gallardo didn't achieve greater heights, I don't think he reached his full potential, and while anything can and certainly will happen when it comes to prospects, all of our guys have quite a bit to prove yet. I was quite certain Gallardo would at least be a 2, right now I see that as the ceiling for both Hader and Ortiz.

 

I don't believe it's possible to enough pitching, I would have preferred a pitcher in the lower minors with some talent. If Cordell is the best that they could do that's fine but I also think it's reasonable to be somewhat let down. Cordell was a 3rd piece, he's a fine player, and is a welcome addition, but again there's also reason to be a little bit let down if you were looking for pitching.

[Ennder]

The Royals starting pitching was awful last year and they won the World Series just to answer a question above. There is no perfect way to build a world series winner. You make the playoffs and hope you get hotter than the other teams. It is rarely the best team in baseball that wins it.

[molitor fan]

Mitch Haniger? Not close in my estimation....Cordell has been mentioned as the best athlete in the Rangers organization - an organization that is rife with excellent athletes. He was also regarded as having the 2nd best raw power in the organization with Gallo the obvious best power source. Like Gallo, Cordell has major swing and miss issues in his game, and he also lacks baseball instincts to some mild degree I think and came from a small school in Liberty. However if you search his youtube stuff, you will find some catches that will literally make your jaw drop and some blasts to left that may have come off the bat around 120 mph....he stalled last year some and is going to be 25 for spring training, so he certainly has some warts to him....however he has serious serious upside as well, which Haniger does not have

[MrTPlush]

Let's not compare Ryan Cordell to Joey Gallo when it comes to swing and miss issues. Joey is consistently over 30% for his K-rate. Cordell has floated near 20% which isn't even all that bad.

[TheCrew07]

Garrett Cooper may have the best raw power in the Brewer system, how has that translated? Or David Denson? That aside, you're selling Haniger short as a baseball player, even if he never makes it with AZ. He was much better than I expected to him to be when I saw him in WI.

 

Cordell is certainly an athletic upgrade over Haniger, but from a production standpoint I don't think much separates them, and again that was intended to be a very loose comparison based on the type player I see them as.

 

As far as instincts goes, to use a player from the Brewer's system, the more I see of Trent Clark the less I like him as a CF, and he's not limited athletically. To me that's either something you have, or something you don't, and while players can certainly get better, their ceiling as a player is limited by those instincts.

 

Cordell is a nice prospect, but he's not even a MLB regular at this point, let alone a 3 WAR player like a Hart.

 

I do like that the Brewers continue to get better athletically and continue to add options though, Stearns is definitely moving in the right direction.

[MKE81]

Except Cordell has actually produced in the HR department to the tune of averaging 20+ if given a full season. He just hit 19 in 400AB in AA whereas Cooper has 27 in his minor league career of 1300ABs. So yeah, Cordell's power has already translated well and so has his speed. I don't think people understand how talented he actually is. He has the potential to be a solid MLB starter, which is why I'm excited about him being the 3rd piece. And I'm someone who was hoping for a rotation arm.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Mitch Haniger? Not close in my estimation....Cordell has been mentioned as the best athlete in the Rangers organization - an organization that is rife with excellent athletes. He was also regarded as having the 2nd best raw power in the organization with Gallo the obvious best power source. Like Gallo, Cordell has major swing and miss issues in his game, and he also lacks baseball instincts to some mild degree I think and came from a small school in Liberty. However if you search his youtube stuff, you will find some catches that will literally make your jaw drop and some blasts to left that may have come off the bat around 120 mph....he stalled last year some and is going to be 25 for spring training, so he certainly has some warts to him....however he has serious serious upside as well, which Haniger does not have

 

How do you figure? Haniger has a minor league career OPS of .860 and Cordell's OPS is .798.

 

Cordell may have more speed and a better defensive profile but Haniger is the far superior hitter.

 

Cordell's upside IS Haniger IMO. Possible solid regular.

[homer]

Speaking of Haniger, he's top 15-20 in exit velocity this year. That surprised me.

[StearnsFTW]

Stearns doesn't address organizational needs. He addresses talent and only talent

 

Thank God.

[brewmann04]

at the very least the addition gives Stearns more chips to trade

[tmwiese55]

Wasn't there someone on here a while back who had a huge obsession that Haniger was going to be awesome and that was like the dumbest trade in Brewers history? I didn't notice he came up to MLB but I guess we'll see if he sticks and is ever more than a 4/5 OF in MLB like we thought or if he's the next underrated guy to kill it as that guy thought.

[sveumrules]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/projecting-brewers-acquisition-ryan-cordell/

 

For whatever it is or isn't worth, the stats based projection models seem to think Cordell is a nice sleeper prospect.

[gregmag]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/projecting-brewers-acquisition-ryan-cordell/

 

For whatever it is or isn't worth, the stats based projection models seem to think Cordell is a nice sleeper prospect.

What's most interesting about that is the linkage of Cordell to the Brewers' general talent acquisition strategy. Stearns loves him some KATOH.

[sveumrules]

Definitely. When FG published their Farm System Rankings based on KATOH projections before the season the Brewers were far and away in first place at 86 projected WAR with Houston in second at 77 so it seems likely that Stearns & Co are using some kind of KATOHesque system as a component of their player evaluations.

[RWeeksFan23]

What is KATOH?

[dlk9s]

The houseguest of player projection models.