Lucroy and Jeffress to the Rangers for CF Lewis Brinson, RHP Luis Ortiz, PTBNL…(Lucroy comments, post 523; PTBNL is Ryan Cordell, post 581)

[JohnBriggs12]

Guzman seems to be getting a somewhat negative rep on here outside of a few posters. He's a huge target at 1b, is solid defensively and has a projected above average hit tool with the "potential" for plus power. He's still young for his level (AA and AAA) and maturing across the board. It's just a huge bonus he happens to play a position of need - people are acting as if he's a target solely because he's a 1b. That's not the case, that's just a bonus. I'm fine if he's the PTBNL. I personally would chose a SP given they have Mendez, Jurado, Matuella, Payano. At least 2 of these will be options for us.

 

Look, SP are always welcome, but the Brewers do have a nice blend of arms throughout every level their system and Texas isn't going to surrender a future ace as a PTBNL.

 

The remarks about Guzman are right on the money. But I'd had other than Phillips who's more maybe than anything at this point and the last two first rounders who are several years away, where's the big lefty stick in this order in 2-3 years?

 

Arcia's here. Brinson will be a year from now. When that happens, the future is now, and they need a 1B beyond 2017.

[yoshii8]

I'd be thrilled if we got a player the caliber of Guzman as the PTBNL.

[TheCrew07]

I just don't get the negativity toward Guzman. He's still just 21 and he's at AAA. He puts the ball in play and his power is emerging. At 6'5" 205, there's room to easily add muscle to be a 25-30 HR guy.

 

It's not negativity, no one has said Guzman is a terrible prospect, he's a very nice prospect.

 

The point is to get the best talent available, not settle for lesser talent because it fills a position of need. That's one of the things besides "mlb ready" that drove me nuts about Melvin as a GM. If you a trade a SS, you don't have to bring back someone crappy like Yuni B, or if you trade a OF, bring back a MLB ready OF regardless of talent level... please, for love of god, just get the most talented players possible... if they are in AA great, but if we have to go down to R ball like with Diplan, that's just as good.

 

As soon as you start placing arbitrary conditions on trades such as "last year of team control if out of contention" or "mlb ready" which have been so popular on the MLB side of this forum for years then you severely limit the trade possibilities and targets. We need depth of talent as an organization, winning MLB team or not it's a reality of the financial aspects of a MLB franchise playing in a market like Milwaukee, and that means casting the talent as wide as possible. That means continually turning over the roster and staying away from players 30 years or older.

 

If the Brewers pro-player scouts (who I hold in pretty high esteem) think Guzman is the best talent available then by all means grab him. Just because I would prefer Payano doesn't mean I think Guzman is garbage... in the same way that when it came to the 2016 draft it doesn't mean I think Corey Ray stinks because he's not a pitcher. I'll always point out the counter side of a prospect if only one side is being trumpeted because I believe in getting all of the information out there, not just some statistical "this guy jumped up to 16 HRs so he should be our guy" argument which is where I felt most of the Guzman support was coming from. I'm going to try and provide some context to those stats, I'm going to go and do my home work which means as much video and print information as I can find.

 

Until I get the young potential impact pitching I want, I'm always going to lean that way, but that doesn't mean I don't value impact positional talent, because almost all of my favorite prospects currently in the system are position players. Truthfully, even if I get that pitching at some point I'm probably going to continue to lean that way because I believe in building the pitching staff first.

[MadThinker88]

With the direction DS has been going (building from the middle of the field first, athletic multi-faceted players) a pitcher makes the most sense.

 

I would even suggest that if the pitcher is a half step behind the 1B in value right now, the pitcher makes more sense as there are fall back options (bullpen) with the pitcher you do not get with the 1B talent.

 

Young controlable pitching is the hardest thing to acquire. Grab as much as you can when you can.

 

One other thing: in July/ early August, the Crew dealt away 4 players (2 pitchers and 2 position players). So far they have gotten back 6 and the PTBNL. Of those 6, 3 are position players and 3 are pitchers.. Grabbing a pitcher makes the most sense..

[Yolk]

Ronald Guzman is my preference at this point. And this is coming from a guy who posted multiple times early in the year that I wanted Jurado AND Payano (with Profar). While I like both of those pitchers quite a bit, they are mid-late rotation starters at best. I'm going ceiling here, regardless of floor.

 

I'd be happy with any of the four but I want: Guzman, Matuella, Jurado, Payano. In that order.

[sargennm]

 

From @haudicout: INF-OF Ryan Cordell, who @Evan_P_Grant says is PTBNL in Lucroy/Jeffress trade, is currently rated No. 6 prospect in Texas system.

[Never Outhustled]

How disappointing. Cordell is 24 and doesn't get on base. Not much of a prospect at all. The rest of the list must have been pretty disappointing.

[homer]

How disappointing. Cordell is 24 and doesn't get on base. Not much of a prospect at all. The rest of the list must have been pretty disappointing.

 

 

He got on base plenty before this year.

[sargennm]

Interesting that he was top 10 on two different prospect lists for the Rangers this year. But, yeah Never Outhustled, 24 and AA doesn't instill confidence. I'll be interested to see where he lands in the Brewers systems and the comments from the team about why they wanted him. Other than the top-top guys they've traded for lately, doesn't seem to fit the low minors/high upside guy they seemed to have been going after.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/09/brewers-to-acquire-ryan-cordell-as-ptbnl-in-jonathan-lucroy-trade.html

[TURBO]

meh.

 

I'd rather have taken a flyer on a pitcher than yet another outfielder.

[berniebrewer4life]

Look, he's not the blue chip we were all hoping for, but he gets on base at a decent clip and has good pop. He looks like he could be a 20/20 guy, which would be ok with me.

[Never Outhustled]

How disappointing. Cordell is 24 and doesn't get on base. Not much of a prospect at all. The rest of the list must have been pretty disappointing.

 

 

He got on base plenty before this year.

 

So you consider the 263 OBA he had in AA last year to be plenty? He seems to struggle with advanced pitching.

 

Maybe Stearns thinks the organization's focus on plate discipline can help Cordell, but that seems doubtful for a player already 24 who hasn't even seen AAA yet.

[sveumrules]

The OBP may have been low this year but his 127 wRC+ was 10th in the Texas League among qualifiers while his .484 SLG was 2nd in the league. Can also run a little and play all three OF spots plus maybe some 3B/1B. So we're talking about a guy with above average production & a wide base of skills (power, speed, defensive versatility). Sounds like a Stearns kind of guy to me.

[clancyphile]

meh.

 

I'd rather have taken a flyer on a pitcher than yet another outfielder.

 

I see him as a lot like Villar or Perez, only with 20 HR power. Could be, at worst, a very valuable bench asset. Best case, he helps make things complicated with his performance. I like him a lot, and am excited the Brewers got him.

 

Plus, this give the Brewers... options this offseason.

 

They can sell Villar or Perez high, and have a replacement in the system.

[Noche]

Solid player with impact skills if they develop. Nice pick up. Fantastic trade overall.

[pacopete4]

Just not sure where all these outfielders are going to play. Only two spots open with Niewenhuis a lock for one of the three spots. Possibly could really see Braun moved this winter.

[brauny]

hey boys and girls,

 

here is a small piece i wrote on the PTBNL Ryan Cordell

 

http://www.armchairallamericans.com/ryan-cordell-named-third-player-lucroy-jeffress-deal/

[Never Outhustled]

Cordell was a failed experiment at 3B. That's not an option going forward.

 

Whoever the reporter was who said this PTBNL was comparable top the other prospects in the deal was dead wrong. Cordell isn't nearly as proven or advanced as Ramon Flores, and he's only 9 days younger.

 

I don't mind getting more OFs, because so many of our OF prospects washed out this year.

[JosephC]

After landing both Brinson and Ortiz it was unlikely that the Brewers were going to get a third "true" top prospect in this deal. I was hoping the Brewers would get one of the better "role player" types out of the Ranger's system and they ended up getting the player that I had as the top player in that particular group. Would agree with the idea that Cordell probably shouldn't be listed at #6 on MLB.com's list because of age, low OBP, walk rate, etc...but no way should he be listed outside of the top 12 and when he's top 12 in a pretty good system then he's a legitimate prospect. I was expecting the Brewers would get somebody off the back half of that top 30 list so Cordell was definitely better than what I was anticipating.

 

Also like Stearns approach in terms of getting top talent and seemingly not paying much attention to where they play. As much as we love the look of these prospects between Santana, Brinson, Ray, Clark, Phillips, Cordell it's almost a guarantee that half either won't make it or be disappointments as major leaguers. Stearns needs to stay in the mode of acquiring the best talent.

 

And I am absolutely thrilled that Lucroy vetoed the deal with Cleveland. IMO he did the Brewers a big favor as I like the Lucroy/Jeffress for Brinson/Ortiz/Cordell swap much more than I liked that Cleveland deal.

[brewmann04]

How many Of can DS acquire when they only need 3 to play. Hopefully DS can tire those excess of prospects into a quality starting pitcher

[pacopete4]

How many Of can DS acquire when they only need 3 to play. Hopefully DS can tire those excess of prospects into a quality starting pitcher

 

I think this is probably part of the plan. Get the best talent you can, no matter the position and worry about filling holes when we are ready to compete.

[pacopete4]

We grabbed three top ten prospects from the Rangers. Maybe Cordell doesn't float your boat at the moment but it's hard to argue that we didn't receive higher end talent in return for Lucroy/Jeffress.

[homer]

How disappointing. Cordell is 24 and doesn't get on base. Not much of a prospect at all. The rest of the list must have been pretty disappointing.

 

 

He got on base plenty before this year.

 

So you consider the 263 OBA he had in AA last year to be plenty? He seems to struggle with advanced pitching.

 

Maybe Stearns thinks the organization's focus on plate discipline can help Cordell, but that seems doubtful for a player already 24 who hasn't even seen AAA yet.

 

His OBP has been roughly 50 - 70 points above his BA his whole career. Is he Barry Bonds? No but his walk rate is good enough.

 

He can play multiple positions and has power. Might be a nice 4th OF at some point. Personally I'd rather take a flier on a young pitcher in A ball or lower.

[markedman5]

Mccalvy

 

Add Ryan Cordell to the long list of Brewers prospects who must be added to 40-man roster this winter or be exposed to Rule 5 Draft.

[brewmann04]

I hope DS has that plan bcause we need some Quality starters.