Lucroy and Jeffress to the Rangers for CF Lewis Brinson, RHP Luis Ortiz, PTBNL…(Lucroy comments, post 523; PTBNL is Ryan Cordell, post 581)

[logan82]

For me, the main thing is that the deal is done and we can move forward with building a winning franchise. I'm sure many feel like we should have gotten more, but what we got is what we got - nothing we can do to change that.

 

The three new guys we got today represent a big infusion of higher upside talent. I like that a lot.

 

All three of the guys we gave up are very good players, and I wish them luck, but they just aren't what we need at this moment. I'm looking forward to seeing the young guys develop, and hopefully be big parts of the Brewers future.

Agree and the best part is we didn't take the crap deal the Mets offered.

[StearnsFTW]

Seems like we should have gotten more.... Even those here that praise the deal wanted WAY more than this and have posted wish lists that included WAY more for JUST Lucroy. For whatever reason, some refuse to be critical of DS even in the slightest. Uh.... it's ok to be underwhelmed here a bit and still like DS and the direction of the team.

 

Also, it seems like we were dealing from a place of disadvantage because Texas, along with everyone else in the baseball world, figured Lucroy was being dealt because of the debacle yesterday. Lucroy wasn't even with the team today.... Talk about showing your hand.

 

It's very difficult to be excited about a fat AA pitcher in the 4's ERA and a somewhat injure prone AA .240 hitter who strikes out. We are banking on a lot of things to go right to justify giving up a 31 year leader, All star catcher, and our closer who could have been an Allstar this year, who has 3 and a half years of control left. To me, the Indians deal was a little better. These two top 100 players we received also appear to be trending down with so so years.

 

I really like the Smith trade.... Can't say the same here. One of the two really, really have to perform well (All Star) to make this trade a good one. Let's hope one does....

 

I mean, if you look at Lewis Brinson's stats and video and come to the conclusion that he's "a somewhat injury prone .240 hitter who strikes out", that's on you.

 

I think you're taking it to the other extreme.

[StearnsFTW]

I added the corresponding article in the Bickford/Susac thread... here is Minor League Ball's reaction to this trade.

 

Brinson is having a down year — especially after he exploded in his brief Triple-A debut last year — by his standards, but there is simply no denying the natural tools and skill set the 22-year old brings to the table. The only problem was that he was very raw when he came to the pros. He has since seemed to have worked out the swing mechanics that plagued him early on and is learning how to be a well-rounded outfielder, not reliant upon his speed to make up for mistakes.

 

...

 

Brinson plays well enough in centerfield that he should stick there, especially with plus speed and an above average arm. If he can avoid the nagging leg injuries that have slowed him down and continue to refine his swing, the Brewers have acquired themselves an All Star.

 

Ortiz’s calling card [has been] good command behind an arsenal that he can maintain the velocity and action of well into his starts. He has a mid-90s fastball and a slider that comes across in the 80s that most feel are ready for prime time. His command and control are impeccable. The two questions surrounding Ortiz are the development of other secondary offerings and his stamina. He is currently at his career high in innings pitched at 67.1. A history of arm injuries and the lack of that 100 inning season are certainly concerns, but his stuff is undeniable.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

I'm really excited about the projectability of both pitchers. Big guys who bring heat and seemingly have excellent command for being pretty young.

 

The system was in good shape before today, but I was a little worried about projectable arms. I still am, but a lot less than I was yesterday.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm really excited about the projectability of both pitchers. Big guys who bring heat and seemingly have excellent command for being pretty young.

 

The system was in good shape before today, but I was a little worried about projectable arms. I still am, but a lot less than I was yesterday.

Agreed on both points. Really exciting additions, and I'm really rejuvenated by Stearns's approach to organization building.

[Jenkins5]

If you go talk to Rangers fans, the vast majority right now are far more disappointed about losing Brinson over Gallo. While Brinson doesn't have the absolutely incredible power tool of Gallo.... he is pretty much better in every other way as a player. He was ranked what, #16 prospect in all of milb to start the season? How can it really be complained about.

 

I loved Ortiz coming out of high school and he has always been on of my top targets for them until recently. He really, really, really, really, NEEDS to get serious about his weight. He lets it float all over. It works for Colon and David Wells but if you don't manage that....nagging injuries are going to really hurt you career. Potential wise....kid has the arm. He knows how to pitch with command of his great stuff. He's advanced for his age and looks to be a TOR guy. At worst a #3. Very good get!

 

To me Lucroy for Brinson and Jeffress for Ortiz is not very equal in value. Leads me to believe the PTBNL is no bum. Brewers have a list of pretty talent young guys and just want more time to figure who they want.... or they really like one of the two young arms they drafted.

 

Overall....all winter most of my Lucroy trades had Brinson and Ortiz in it so.... I am happy.

[LouisEly]

A very under-the-radar guy who, if he is the PTBNL, you shouldn't get upset about is Joe Palumbo. Lefty draft pick out of HS in 2013, this year he has accumulated 94 K's in 69 IP in low-A. Walks are a little high (3.6/9), he has mostly been a reliever but they just moved him into the rotation and he has started his last two outings. Even if he can't cut it as a starter, if he can maintain that K rate he can be a nasty reliever and closer. The scary thing is that he is listed at 6'1", 150 lbs. I have no idea how he didn't make the mid-season top 30 list, and I would have no issue with him as the PTBNL. Still only 21 years old.

 

I'm guessing/hoping that the PTBNL is one of Matuella, Palumbo, Pedro Payano, or Ariel Jurado. If the Brewers want additional time to scout, Palumbo would make sense in that he has just been moved into the rotation. With Matuella rehabbing, that would make sense too.

Another guy besides Palumbo who is not on any top prospect list but might be flying under the radar is Jeffrey Springs. A 30th round pick out of Applacian State last year, he has recently been moved into the starting rotation at High Desert after posting a 1.16 ERA in 31 innings with 11(!) hits and 40 Ks at low-A, and has a career 10.8 K/9 so far. He's getting knocked around at High Desert in a small sample, but that happens to a lot of pitchers there.

 

He's been moving through the system quickly though, two levels each year. Might be their Mike Fiers.

[RockCoCougars]

Glad they passed on Gallo, but wish that it would have been Thornburg instead of JJ. Have to say the milb stats for both guys are a tad unimpressive, but trust that the pundits and Brewers scouting Dept know more than I.

[Oxy]

Is there any chance that Jeffress IS the PTBNL? Or is that against the rules?

[MadThinker88]

#Brewers GM David Stearns said on @620wtmj that parameters were established to allow them to scout Texas prospects and make PTBN selection.

#joeygallo

 

Can't be Gallo. Against the rules governing PTBNL...

 

When recently drafted players are eligible has been hashed out over n over (yoyo's post below very good)

 

What has not been posted in this thread is the impact of the 40 Man roster.. The PTBNL cannot be on the 40 man roster!!!

 

Since Gallo got called up to the majors, he was placed on the 40. So like or dislike Gallo, forget about him in this trade (as The PTBNL).

 

What it really means by waiting till after the season for the PTBNL is that one or more of the players on the list might be a September 2016 call up.

 

If we see more Ranger prosepcts called up to the majors in September, scratch them off the watch list.

 

 

BTW - Mejia with a 1st inning hit. Streak now at 43 games...

[yoyo49]

Please be advised that the Commissioner's Office and the Players Association have agreed to amend the Major League Rules in advance of this year's Rule 4 Draft with respect to players-to-be-named-later ("PTBNLs") under Rule 12(e)(2), and the trading of draft picks under Rule 3(b)(6). ...commencing with players eligible for the 2015 Rule 4 Draft, (a) players selected in the Draft may be traded beginning on the day following the conclusion of the World Series, and (b) drafted players cannot be PTBNLs unless they otherwise could be traded pursuant to Rule 3(b)(6), as amended, at the time of the trade.

[MKE81]

Seems like we should have gotten more.... Even those here that praise the deal wanted WAY more than this and have posted wish lists that included WAY more for JUST Lucroy. For whatever reason, some refuse to be critical of DS even in the slightest. Uh.... it's ok to be underwhelmed here a bit and still like DS and the direction of the team.

 

Also, it seems like we were dealing from a place of disadvantage because Texas, along with everyone else in the baseball world, figured Lucroy was being dealt because of the debacle yesterday. Lucroy wasn't even with the team today.... Talk about showing your hand.

 

It's very difficult to be excited about a fat AA pitcher in the 4's ERA and a somewhat injure prone AA .240 hitter who strikes out. We are banking on a lot of things to go right to justify giving up a 31 year leader, All star catcher, and our closer who could have been an Allstar this year, who has 3 and a half years of control left. To me, the Indians deal was a little better. These two top 100 players we received also appear to be trending down with so so years.

 

I really like the Smith trade.... Can't say the same here. One of the two really, really have to perform well (All Star) to make this trade a good one. Let's hope one does....

 

Of course it seems we should have gotten more - when almost everyone offers unrealistic proposals and you see the actual return it's underwhelming. I said earlier this afternoon, based on Lucroy to CLE and Smith's trade, that if we're offering Lucroy/Jeffress we should net Gallo (because his name was in every rumor so assumed it was him instead of Brinson) + Mendoza or Ortiz + whoever else is added. I wasn't referring to 5 guys added. I was expecting 2. Which leads me to believe the 1 coming back will be a legit prospect. I thought that was realistic and a very good trade then and I still do - I think it could be a great trade depending on who the PTBNL is. Nobody should be critical of Stearns as of yet. He's literally done nothing to warrant any criticism in my opinion (some will disagree).

 

Lucroy wasn't playing today because the deadline was this afternoon and other teams already gave offers the day before. So if one offer falls through then there's still interest from the other team's. Lucroy not traveling to SD has no barring on anyone's thoughts or strategy. Everyone knew he was on the trade block still because he was literally just traded 30hrs ago to CLE.

 

Ortiz a fat pitcher with 4 ERA in AA. Feel free to disregard his 1.74 ERA in A (18/19yrs old and 3yrs young for level) and 2.6 ERA in A+ the first half of this season (20yrs old and 3yrs younger than competition). Or the fact he barely walks anyone with 8.3 K/9 rate. In 6 of his 9 starts at AA he's posting a 28ip, 26h, 8er, 7bb, 26K (2.57 ERA). He's pitching just fine and still learning/growing.

 

As a 20yr old Brinson destroyed A ball. As a 21yr old he destroyed A+ then had a very solid AA then a brief AAA stint destroying it then posted a 300/408/983 line in AFL. Posted massive numbers across the board last year at several levels. This year he's injured, as everyone's said, which is affecting his performance. It doesn't change his tools. He's a legit defensive CF as well - this year he's still playing AA at almost 2yrs younger for the level.

[logan82]

#Brewers GM David Stearns said on @620wtmj that parameters were established to allow them to scout Texas prospects and make PTBN selection.

#joeygallo

 

Can't be Gallo. Against the rules governing PTBNL...

Why?

[brewcrewdue80]

Going through MLBs 30 prospect list. Matuella, Payano, and Payano are shown DL or Inactive. Yes two Payanos-Pedro and Victor

 

You get 2 months to scout them if they make appearances.

Looking apparently Matuella is said to be done for the season after 1 start.

 

So Leaves that idea to the Payanos. One is Righty 21-6'2" one is Lefty. 23-6'5"

[MadThinker88]

 

Can't be Gallo. Against the rules governing PTBNL...

Why?

 

Please review the post (& responses of others)..

[splitterpfj]

I remain hopeful that it is Michael Matuella

 

Scouting grades: Fastball: 65 | Curveball: 60 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 50 | Overall: 45

 

A candidate for the first pick in the 2015 Draft, Matuella saw that dream end when he had Tommy John surgery that April. Though he dropped to the third round, the Rangers paid him $2 million, the equivalent of first-round money. They hoped to have him work 100 innings in his first pro season, but his elbow began bothering him after his initial three-inning outing and they shut him down again.

 

When he was healthy at Duke, Matuella looked like a No. 1 starter. He sat at 93-97 mph with running life on his fastball and had a pair of swing-and-miss breaking balls in his curveball and slider. He also showed feel for a changeup and found the strike zone with ease.

 

Matuella's 6-foot-6 frame creates angle and plane on his pitches that makes them more difficult to hit. He has No. 1 starter upside but has a long way to go to prove he can hold up physically after working just 145 2/3 innings (including summer ball) in three years of college. In addition to his elbow reconstruction, he also has spondylolysis, a manageable defect of the vertebrae in the lower back.

 

I remain hopeful it is not.

 

Matuella has a chronic back issue and a rebuilt elbow already . No!

[splitterpfj]

This trade surprised me because it broke with what Stearns had been doing. He didn't go lower in the system and get more players, he went to the top of the list and got 2+1.

 

I like both prospects, for sure, and I have to assume Stearns chose Brinson over Gallo - which doesn't surprise me when I think about it.

 

Any scout would know these two by name, they're both very real prospects, but Brinson is definitely risky, not just because he's had a tough year - because he's had a shoulder injury.

 

The PTBNL will provide some fun for us, and TX' system has plenty of guys worth hoping for.

 

I'm not disappointed, but I would rather have had the Cleveland deal + the Smith deal, with the chance to deal Jeffress separately.

[xisxisxis]

PTBNL = Prince Fielder.

[MadThinker88]

Thanks for ur thoughts Split..

 

I really wonder if Jeffress will struggle again being away from the Brewer organization. If he does struggle, I hope for his sanity & well being he finds his way back to Milwaukee for a 3rd tour...

[1992casey]

 

Can't be Gallo. Against the rules governing PTBNL...

Why?

 

Please review the post (& responses of others)..

I'm not sure which post to review, but I don't believe a PTBNL can be on a team's 40-man roster.

[1992casey]

If the player is already agreed to then why would he not be named now?

 

That makes no sense.

We now know that the player hasn't yet been agreed upon. But had the player been agreed upon, one scenario for not naming a PTBNL now could be that the team acquiring him might not currently have a roster spot for him.

[adambr2]

'He said parameters were established with the Rangers to allow time for the Brewers to scout certain players in their farm system and make a selection that likely will be another top prospect.'

 

Tom H sounds optimistic that the PTBNL will be another big piece, not a lottery ticket or throw in...

[LouisEly]

This is a bit dated (2009) but it says that "they cannot have spent time in the major leagues between the day the trade is announced and the day it is completed":

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/player-to-be-named-later.html

 

This says "the player named later can't have played in the same league as the team he's being traded to":

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

 

I don't see anything about not being on a 40-man roster. What I understand is that the player can't have previously played in the same league and can't be called up to the majors between the time the deal is made and the PTBNL is announced.

 

This says "player not on 40-man roster" as an example of a type of PTBNL, but not a rule:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Player_to_be_named_later

[logan82]

This is a bit dated (2009) but it says that "they cannot have spent time in the major leagues between the day the trade is announced and the day it is completed":

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/player-to-be-named-later.html

 

This says "the player named later can't have played in the same league as the team he's being traded to":

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

 

I don't see anything about not being on a 40-man roster. What I understand is that the player can't have previously played in the same league and can't be called up to the majors between the time the deal is made and the PTBNL is announced.

 

This says "player not on 40-man roster" as an example of a type of PTBNL, but not a rule:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Player_to_be_named_later

That is a good answer.

[jjfanec]

'He said parameters were established with the Rangers to allow time for the Brewers to scout certain players in their farm system and make a selection that likely will be another top prospect.'

 

Tom H sounds optimistic that the PTBNL will be another big piece, not a lottery ticket or throw in...

 

I wonder how long until the potential names start to leak. Top prospect seems quite descriptive. Who would fit that bill that isn't Gallo? Mendez or Ibanez?

[adambr2]

I'm curious about the validity of a 2009 reference since that was under the previous CBA.

 

However I also can't find anything saying players on the 40 can't be PTBNL. I see that for the 25, but not the 40.

 

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3524

 

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